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I tend to disagree....water changes should be done if you are cycling with live rock to reduce ammonia and nitrite. No need to let the bacteria develop as it is already there.

That is so true and often very overlooked. The good stuff is all in there and we want to preserve as much as possible, including the worms/tiny corals/sponges (if possible) and various other organisms that you may not even know are there until a few weeks or months later when they emerge!

I also dont see the need for huge colonies of beneficial bacteria from the start because if things are taken slowly as they should be then the bacteria population will regulate itself as the tank is stocked. Big spikes may give larger colonies of bacteria but they will only die off anyway to the level that is needed by the tank.

I hope that makes sense... been a while since i posted here and whats in my head sometimes doesnt come out right -especially when over simplifying things such as cycles

-DL

Cake > Pie

I only wanted one clown fish, Also i am using carbi sand mixed with there live sand! I am using kent buffering stuff!

The tank is cycled and i have added 1 orange firefish along with some star fish, crabs, snails,

Everyting is going good, Nitrates have been about 5 for the last cuple of days after the 4 gal water change to break the cycle! Thanks for helping everyone!

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2571255/2

Yes, the 3 top rules in starting, and keeping a SW tank, is 1: Patience, 2: more patience, and 3: even more patience. Just be cautious, as crustacea and most all inverts don't take kindly to any poluted water, ex ammonia, and nitrates.

As for your ph levels, are you using any kind of substrate? The best way to buffer the ph to keep it elevated is to use a calcium and magnesium based substrate. I recomend either South Down play sand (Caribean beach sand), Aragonite, crushed coral, or some other you can find. Do not use inert sutstrate, like silicone based sand and such. The calcium and magnesium will leach into the water thus buffering the ph to stay elevated. If you cannot find any of these, the next best step is a pile of sea shells. You will see over the course of a year or so, the sea shells will actually start crumbling apart. This is because they made of calcium and magnesium.

HTH.....

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There is always a bigger fish...

Alfie, i dont know if you remember me or not but i used to post here under a different name. I just want to say please dont rush this mate.... take it slow and all will be well.

As a side note, why did you only add one clown?

-DL

Cake > Pie

Wow thanks for the input no i am not using a skimmer and the tank cycled in 8 days and still everything is at o ph is low at 8 and the nitrates are at 10 so its going pretty good! I added some crabs snails shrimp and startfish! Also a little clown fish! I kept one damsel cuz i couldnt get him out but im still trying! Thanks

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2571255/2

Sounds like things are going along great here. Just had a few things to add. First, are you using a skimmer? If not, I will explain the need later.

As for the healthy fish during the high levels. Well they may look healthy and be active, but they actually may not be. The hardy fish, such as you have in there, are just that hardy. The best way to describe this situation, is air polution. We humans in big cities live with it every day. But the prolonged exposure to it, causes us illness. And, those that are not very hardy, both human and fish, will surcum to these high levels easier. But, they all are affected by it one way or another, even if it does not show. High nitrate levels are the same as high air polution for humans.

As for what changes during the cycling of the LR, I most whole heartily agree with dro. The LR has just that, live critters on it. As the die off of the uncured LR causes the spikes in the ammonia levels, the high levels will cause more death among the living critters on your LR. Thus causeing more increase in the bio-load, and more increase in the levels. However, the major loss, might be some nice critters that may not come back. This is where the skimmer comes into play when curing LR. It helps remove the breakdown "sloth" of the dieing critters, before it starts rotting and turning into ammonia. You will have plenty of ammonia to get your cycle going, from the waste products of the living critters. So you don't need to add high levels to that already being produced.

When curing large amounts of LR (100-500 lbs), I not only borrow my buddies 6 foot skimmer (in process of building my own 7 footer), have several aereators running, have several Tunzes circulating the tubs, but do water changes daily until the ammonia stays at acceptable levels.

HTH......


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There is always a bigger fish...

Okay i did a 2 gallon water change and now my tank reads salt- 1.023, ph-8, ammonia-0, nitrites-.25, nitrates-30 temp-78f

So as you can see it drop everything, Now i was woundering do you think that is going to start a mini cycle and raise everything in the next day or 2 or will that water change speed things up now???

Let me know what you think or know! Thanks

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2571255/2

Well thanks for the welcome back, i got my place back with my mom so i am back to doing tanks and ect. lol

Anyways how much longer do you all think it will be?

My ammonia is gone but the nitrites are still up there and havent went up or done in like 3 days now! Thanks

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2571255/2

Im doing pretty good.....I thought that was you, but wasnt sure.

I would hold off on adding anything until you get your ammonia and nitrite to zero, and your nitrates to atleast 20ppm....preferably 10ppm.

Dark Lotus....welcome back!

Last edited by DarkRealm Overlord at 10-Nov-2004 22:36

Well i did a check today and my water reads

1.023, ph-7.8, ammnoia 0-.25(hard to tell) Nitrites .75, Nitates 160 plus prolly around 250! temp 78f

So as you can see my ammonia is basically gone but my nitrites are high and havent feel or moved in like a 3 days! Also the nitrates are way off the chart!

All the fish look good and still eatting like crazy and now there all picking on each other so i will say they are good!

Im starting to see brown alage so i guess thats a good sign right> Also i found some sponges and feather dusters things on the rock! But i found aptisha too!

I was also woundering can i add like shrimp, crabs, or and snails at this time or will they die??? due to the nitites or nitrates?

Okay well thanks and let me know about that!

Hey dro long time no see how you been doing?

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2571255/2

Well i got only 6 lb of live rock and its alor so it looks like about 15lb of fuji rock, Its really nice rock and big!

Anyways my tank has had the rock and sand in there for about 5 days now and i have been watching the water very closly and wanted some info on cycles cuz in the past i never had one or all i would ever see is a little ammoina!

Day 1 salt- 1.023, ph 8, ammnonia 0, nitrites 0, nitrates 0, temp 80

day 2 salt- 1.023, ph 8, ammnonia 0, nitrites 0, nitrates 0, temp 79

day 3 salt- 1.022, ph 8, ammnonia 1.5, nitrites 0.15, nitrates 20, temp 79

day 4 salt- 1.023, ph 8, ammnonia 1.5, nitrites 0.45, nitrates 40, temp 80

day 5 salt- 1.023, ph 8, ammnonia 0.75, nitrites 1.0, nitrates 160+ (off chart), temp 80

So as you can see its cycles is going but i thought nitrates wouldnt apear intil like day 20 and i just odnt get it! Liek what happins if the ammonia never gets to 0 like in the past but the nitrites go to 0 then what does that mean? ALso when shoudl i do a water change? Everyone i am kinda lost on this, Liek i said never seen a cycle due to using all old rock and ect form other tanks!

Well if you all could let me know whats going on and what i should do! Thanks

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2571255/2

In normal fishless live rock cycle, water change shouldn't made made because the purpose is to have ammonia there to let the bacteria to develop hugh colonies before your first fish comes in.

I tend to disagree....water changes should be done if you are cycling with live rock to reduce ammonia and nitrite. No need to let the bacteria develop as it is already there.

Think about it, why do we pay the high price for live rock.....for the life on the rock, not just the bacteria. Bottom line is that if you want the most out of your live rock (creature wise) then you should be doing water changes to keep ammonia and nitrite down to increase the chance of more little critters.

Ignore the PH at this time. The reading will be off during the cycle.



Dan

ammnonia is at .50 now!!! Nitrites still look like .75 and nitrates are way off chart guessing around 200+

Okay now my ph is always 8.0, I am using this kent buffer along with calcuim everyday! So what is the problem? Is it jsut cuz the cycle or do i need to do somthing? I was thinking about ordering evs 2part buffer system! Used in past very happy!!!

Well thanks everyone so far just let me know what you think about my ph!

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2571255/2

Thanks!

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2571255/2

From what you listed above, it looks like your getting near the end. The ammonia dropps first, it's doing that, then the nitrites will drop. Your nitrates are very high, watch that close. You may have to drop that threw water changes, but wait till ammonia and nitrites drop to zero, unless your fish look stressed.



Dan

I am not going to do any water changes! If i see the fish is stressed i will remove them and return them to the lfs but like i said the fish are very active breathing normal and eatting like pigs!!!

As far as the cycle i thought i had to use fish! Sorry!

Now about the water i was woundering sense i am seeing nitrates does that mean my tank will be done soon? Or what is going on then? Also what if the ammonia doesent go down? I now it did fall a little and my nitrites went up, But in the past all i ever seen was ammonia that never went away intil like 4 water changes

I jsut want this tank to cycle and have the best filter as possible cuz i want to add 5 small fish witch is on the line with the inch per 5 gal thing!

Well if you all think anything else or anything please let me know!

Also i will be getting some pics online soon! Thanks again!

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2571255/2

you shouldn't have and you don't need to have your damels in there when you are doing Live Rock cycling, the live rock is providing both ammonia and nitrifying bacteria and the whole process does takes somewhat between 3 weeks to 8 weeks, you can speed this up by using bottled bacteria such as "Cycle".

In normal fishless live rock cycle, water change shouldn't made made because the purpose is to have ammonia there to let the bacteria to develop hugh colonies before your first fish comes in.

But in your case since you have damsel there...you might need to do a water change to save the damsel's life. Just do a 25% change. And use bottled bacteria to speed up the precess.

If u have nitrates then you are well on your way to cycling. I would think u should do a small water change to bring down the ammonia a bit and nitrites. But I don't know alot about salt tanks.

Also to let you knwo there is 3 damsel that are very active and look very healthy! Eat very well too, But they do fight alot!!! But overall they seem to be handling it good!

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2571255/2