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More pics coming tomorrow.

Also, Fry C - aka "Charlie" appears to be checking out. I was going to euthanize, but decided to just wait and see. He doesn't appear to be suffering, but just parking himself in the java moss and heading into "deep" sleeps. He appears exhausted. I'm just leaving him be and have shut the tank light to keep things dim. If I hadn't disturbed him once or twice, he would have passed. I think it is for the better. The little guy is looking more and more malnourished and very underdeveloped. Maybe he had his mothers curse - that crazy mouth. All I know is he couldn't even seem to find the microworms. I often wondered if he was able to see that well.

I fully expect him to be expired by tomorrow morning. But, I'm leaving it up to him. If he is still alive and too weak to move about, I may have to help him along.

[span class="edited"][Edited by Cory_Di 2004-04-10 18:21][/span]

Awwwww, I'm really sorry Diane

At least Charlie had it good for a while. He'll go to a better place, I'm sure.

---

They shade the glow of it with their mossy-misty costumes,
They wear masks of silk, porcelain, brass, and silver,
So as not to mislead with their own, ordinary faces.

Oh Diane, I'm really sorry to hear that. I know you've been trying so hard.

That little bugger is hanging on. I came home from an Easter vigil and found him foraging for food in the open area.

Part of me feels obligated to euthanize since his development is so poor. The other half of me wants to allow him to follow his instincts and fight back - he may surprise all of us.

He packs himself tightly into the weeds as if he senses his vulnerability - a last ditch attempt at self preservation, as futile as it may be.

If at any point I sense he is suffering, I will have to help him along. However, I may not see him eat, yet I see him poop - so he is getting food.

This is tough now I wonder if I ever want to raise fry
I do hope the little guy makse it

^_^

Well, he was hiding in the java moss this morning, and came out to feed. The little guy wants to live, there's no doubt. I don't know if I'm prolonging the inevitable, but as long as he is eating I have to let him do his thing. I'll leave it up to him. With some poop coming out, he is obviously eating despite my not seeing him take any in.

I'm going to be delayed with pictures, being easter

[span class="edited"][Edited by Cory_Di 2004-04-11 11:21][/span]

wow i just spent like an hour reading this thread!!!!! this has to be the longest ongoing thread ever....hahaha
o well good luck with them anyway!
im a common goldfish breeder myself, so if you have any questions feel free to ask and hopefully i can help!

Not the longest Jim check out this one http://www.fishprofiles.com/interactive/forums/thread.asp?id=28847&page=36
We are all hanging by a thread waiting for Diane's latest update on the fry and everyday I breathe a big sigh of releif when she says Charlie is still hanging in there. I'm really rooting for the little guy.

even *that* isn't the longest thread ever! there was a thread some years ago called "YEAH!!!!!" that was some 100+ pages by the end (or so the legend goes.... )

---

"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman

Week 7 + 1 Day

Charlie is gone, and I do mean gone. Searched for over an hour and for a 5.5 gallon tank, that means I double, triple checked everything. Took out every last piece of java moss and hornwort and visually inspected each and every branch. Neither filter was strong enough to suck him in and the grates were too narrow for him to fit through on the one that stuck to the glass. I had a bare tank and no Charlie. I even checked the bucket I had siphoned the water into the night before and hadn't dumped. No Charlie. I then checked the siphon tube. No Charlie. I have to conclude that his tank mate has disposed of him . I think he had a midnight snack one nibble at a time since he was too big to fit in his mouth. Not even so much as a head left in the tank.

R.I.P. Charlie - It wasn't meant to be.

I was planning to euthanize him this morning and it looks like I should have done so sooner. It now makes sense why he was hiding so deeply into the java moss. His tank mate was probably picking on him, unbeknownst to me. I never saw it personally.

With only one fry left out of the original 4, I feel it is appropriate to now name my last little guy (or girl). Regardless of gender, this fish will now be known as "Nemo". I find it very appropriate.

It worked out for the best I must admit, because Charlie wasn't strong enough for anything greater than a sponge filter and the tank was demanding more. It was placing both fry at risk not getting stronger filtration. I have since placed a three-sided corner filter with gravel (to hold it down), activated carbon, and filter floss). It is connected to a very weak pump, but is giving much better flow than what I had before.

EDIT: Here's the new setup starting below. I'm having trouble attaching again (webpage is incomplete so I can't continue). I'll try again later if it doesn't work now.

EDIT 2: Rebooted my computer twice and am having no luck. I left a message in Site Feedback for Adam, but may just need to wait it out. This happened once before and the next day I was able to post pictures again.

[span class="edited"][Edited by Cory_Di 2004-04-12 14:03][/span]

Well, people - Plan B

Goldfish Fry Pics for Weeks 6 and 7

You may want to set the slide show to slow to read the captions if you use it.

Goodbye charlie

The hideing in the java moss has me a bit worried about one of my zebra danios that's been refusing to eat and has been hideing in the hornwort alot...

And don't forget the word association that was well over 100 pages before it was locked and lost forever.


^_^

[/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font]

Bye Charlie

He was in bad shape. I shouldn't have let it go on for as many days as I did. I now understand firsthand why some breeders euthanize the runts earlier. I hate to say Gary was right, but in this case he was .

I didn't mind a mild deformaty in my beautiful tank. But, I thought I would be dealing with a less beautiful dorsal fin or tail fins, not a fish that was starting to look like a crippled, malnourished little thing.

All I can hope for is that nothing freaky happens with Nemo. Such a young fish has much to conquer and anything can go south very easily. So, I wish Nemo well and hope he will fight his way into longevity

JimG - If you breed goldfish, have you ever fed your fry Microworms? I have a batch going and they are highly convenient. Nemo doesn't quite know how to react to them and almost waits for them to be nearly dead and not moving before he'll snack on them. What is your take? What do you feed?

I know Diane, but it's really tough to make that call when he was fighting so hard. It truly is survival of the fittest I guess. I guess we always hope for miracles

its alrite, out of the 100-1,000 eggs a fish lays, not all can survive.

Theres always next time cory, since the parents are still with you.

Awe Sorry to hear you lost the little one

It's ok. I thought it would have been better for him if I had euthanized him. But if he perished in the night and got picked away by Nemo, then at least he served a useful purpose. Incidentally, I found some unusually colored poopie on the tank bottom today. I would say it pretty much confirms my suspicion. It was fry-colored and there was lots of it.

My only concern now is the bump I see on the bottom of Nemo's chin. I'm really hoping this is just part of his head structure coming in, maybe ahead of the rest. He doesn't seem bothered by it and appears quite normal.

wow, raising egg layer fry is sure a lot more work than with the livebearers eh?
I am really moved by your touching shared experience! My boyfriend once said "Anything that is shared, is Spiritual"! Sure is true! Good luck with the remaining fry!
I will be following his journey to adulthood!
Cheers,
Koran.

Come Play Yahtzee With Me!
http://games.atari.com
Http://www.myleague.com/yahtgames

Thanks. He's doing pretty good. I have to admit, had all the others lived I would have had a logistics problem. I truly hope "Junior" survives. He's chowing up all those microworms I put in the tank. He has figured out how to wrestle with them. At first he wasn't use to his food fighting back .

Well, it was a long week with work and I needed to catch up today. Didn't take any pics. He looks pretty much the same, just bigger. I may take the pics every two weeks. However, the pics in this thread will disappear if the thread goes two weeks without a post. - so, I may give an update if I see no activity.

Good to hear he's still doing good

Psssttt...you might wanna work on your sig line

^_^


[span class="edited"][Edited by Babelfish 2004-04-19 10:16][/span]

OK - is it going to work for me today? I'm losing count, but I think this is week 9. Gosh, just 1 week shy of 2 months

EDIT: NOT!!!

He hasn't changed much shape-wise. Rather he is just growing in size now. I may post 2 month pics next week, then I'll probably skip to every other week.

Here's the link to the Album for weeks 6-9. The last four pics are from week 9. No week 8 pics

Week 9 Fry Pics

The quality is lousy - it looks like he's got spots, but he doesn't. ]:|

[span class="edited"][Edited by Cory_Di 2004-04-25 20:33][/span]

I just love "Sizing up the Temp" that's a classic


^_^

He sure is cute!

Well, the little guy sure is getting bigger rather fast. I often wondered why he wouldn't eat algae as it has been growing in abundance - the soft type most fish like to eat. Well, today I found like 20 little green poopies . I'm glad he's getting his veggies.

I just decided to add this pic to test netscape. I cannot attach pics in IE.

Unfortunately, that awful dotted look is still there so it must be in the original.

[span class="edited"][Edited by Cory_Di 2004-04-30 21:02][/span]
Cory_Di attached this image:
[img]http://www.fishprofiles.net/attachments/344876.jpg"]

cory, i usually will feed the hungary little guys whatever i have...lol
but what i try to feed is..
first 3 weeks powdered fry food, occasional bbs
4-8 weeks crushed goldie flakes, occasional bbs
9-11 weeks crushed flakes,bbs, and micro worms (as you noticed, it takes time for them to get used to them)
12+ weeks reg. flakes, occasional frozen blood worms, and small pellets.
eventually i will every once in a while throw some earth worms for them when they are grown up (just like junior will be soon)
now all of this depends on growth rate, which is why i keep very high temeratures and they grow faster than anyone has ever seen! mostly 80+ F. junior there looks great, as long as you keep up you exellent care he looks like he will be a great focal point for any pond or tank some day!
i probably just rambled on for so long about nothing , it doesnt make sense...just sharing what works for me. GOOD LUCK, and great job so far!

Actually, your feedback was quite helpful.

I am concerned today after having done something stupid. I found clusters of the microworms on the underside of the lid so I took some of those instead of from the sides. When I put them in the tank, they were all dead. He spit most out, but ate some. I hope they were teaming with bacteria. If it ain't fresh I know they can get sick. I'll have to hold my breath for the next week and hope he's alright.

I'll try to take some pics later. He is now in my bedroom since my beloved betta, Bubba died. I'm making a new culture as this one stinks. From the sides of the container they are lively, but I notice that microworms are much bigger when you first start a new culture, then they get smaller. I need to get alternating cultures going now that he really likes the microworms.

He went from a basement temp of 67-70 to my bedroom on the second floor that is more like 74-75.

He's so shy now. He panics whenever I approach the tank. When he was younger, he didn't care, but it looks like the flee reflex has developed. I think this is typical in lower order creatures, especially when the tank is in a low traffic area.

hmmm, i wouldnt worry too much about the dead micro worms. Just think of some of the bacteria infested things they eat when they are in an outdoor pond. i mean unless there was like mold growing on them i wouldnt worry too much
as for the scared behavior, its a big change for him and it will take a few days to feel "safe" again. the tamp change is a major part in all of it.

I tried the crushed goldfish flakes, but I find he has difficulty eating them. He swims up to a piece that I think is small enough and his mouth seems tiny. I am still feeding him the Hikari First Bites powder which is small enough.

I'm thinking that his size is probably smaller than yours at 10 weeks due to the fact that he was in 67-70F temps, rather than warmer water which makes them grow faster. I wish I could measure him, but it is difficult.

whoa... LOOOOONNNGGG thread. i started reading around 4 (GMT -5) and just finished now.

real sorry that you lost 2 fry

good luck with Nemo

Thanks.

I will feel much more confident when my little guy gets to be a good inch long. With every day that goes by his chances of survival get better.

Nemo has been renamed once again. I don't know why, but I've been calling him Junior

yes that fry powder is very good. are you still giving him the bbs? i dont know is he will grow very fast on that powder...hehe

He's growing faster than he was now that he is getting microworms up to 3 times daily. I try to give him a fourth meal with the powder. Unfortunately, it has been too difficult to come home from work to feed him at lunch time as I once was. If I could feed him up to 6-7 times daily as I was at first, he would certainly grow faster.

might not want him to grow TOO TOO fast ].<

hows the little guy doin cory?
oh yeah by the way, my first bach of goldy fry this year hatched today!!!

[span class="edited"][Edited by jimg87 2004-05-08 22:34][/span]

My goldfish spawned on my anacharis, and they ate it right back

- Mine ate most of their eggs as they popped 'em out.

The little guy is doing very well and growing much faster now that he has figured out how to wrestle with the microworms and win. It's like watching a toddler eat spaghetti *slurp*. My mother hadn't seen him in a week and was shocked at how much he has filled out. He gets beefier with each day, I swear.

I hope to post pics soon. I just have been trying to catch up with finals having been last week. I've got bills that are late, my house is a disaster and it was all left in an effort to get through with school one semester sooner . I was suppose to take one last class this summer, but squeezed it in the last spring term.

i think we're dieing for the pictures you can make up by posting 100 xD

finals....you gotta love em!!
lol NOT!

Here we are at Week 11 and 2 days:

Hhhhheerrrrreeeee's Junior!!!!

He's after a microworm here. Hopefully, it shows in the pic. That macro lens of mine not only caught the microworm in the pic as he was about to eat it, but it details all the algae I haven't scrubbed off the front glass. He's been eating it and pooping green. I'm just glad he's eating his veggies in between regular meals.

EDIT: I give up. I finally download netscape so I can post pictures directly to fishprofiles.com and now the connection keeps timing out any time I have the attach image option selected. Never did that to me before.

I'll have to add to my website and will try to post them here later. I'll put a link here in a few minutes, right into this post.

EDIT 2: Here's the pics in my photo album

Fry Pics of Junior at 11 weeks

[span class="edited"][Edited by Cory_Di 2004-05-11 17:34][/span]

Way cool! He's starting to look like a real goldfish now!

It looks like a Micro Blue Oranda. Good luck raising him into a healthy adult.

How long is he now?

[span class="edited"][Edited by TheGoldenDojo 2004-05-11 18:27][/span]

I'm going to estimate about 13mm or just over half-inch in length. His length has increased slightly, but it's his body mass that has taken off. He is just filling out, rounding out and getting taller. He eats like a garbage disposal. That bump under his chin that worried me for the last 6 weeks is finally filling in with head. His head grew out to where that bump, which is basically where the gills ended, blends right in. If he's got any ryukin in him, I would expect him to soon be showing a deeper body versus that of a fry who is a product of two orandas.

I'm hoping he is part ryukin as that male has no swim bladder disorder whatsoever. Both orandas suffer from it regardless of their diet. As they are getting bigger themselves, it is more difficult for them to feed much. I have to do it in small feedings.

Oh - and he's finally able to run right up to larger pieces of goldfish flake and grab them in a single leap. As late as two weeks ago he was clumsy yet and just couldn't seem to grab stuff on the first try. Now he has mastered sudden attacks of microworms and flake . Last week he had a hard time eating these small pellets for fry and this week he has no trouble with them at all.

[span class="edited"][Edited by Cory_Di 2004-05-11 18:41][/span]

He's looking really good Diane!

Wow...I dont know what to say, he looks fantastic.
Well done

awwwww
Cory_Di,
He's looking great! Funny how big he looks till you relize that the sec pic has hornwort in it, and his attack on the filter . 11 weeks, and still counting .

^_^

heheheh it looks so cute (wierd from a guy, i kno ). best of luck to you and junior.

=o Junior is finally growing!! And getting the famous beer-belly.

Yay XD

Beer Belly . I like that. Is that what fancy goldfish grow? I've never seen a fancy mature. In fact, I can't wait to see if he's a ryukin or an oranda. I'm hoping he's part ryukin.

I was beginning to worry that junior was eating too much. He eats constantly. When I'm not putting food in the tank he just grazes all day long on the algae. I sense I'm going to need that 10 gallon real soon.

looking good cory!!!
huess what, i have about 1000 newborn fry!
want some, lol

Is that in a pond, I hope . Do they just take care of themselves?

I don't think I could handle a large scale breeding operation. But, I have enjoyed rearing and tending to a small number of fry, even if it has dwindled to just one.

Well, Junior may be in trouble, but I'm not sure yet. I'm going to email Jungle and the Marine Biologists at That Fish Place and hopefully get an answer soon. I'm half tempted to take a feces sample to a local vet. I've got 12 weeks invested in this little guy. If I have to shell out 15 bucks for a fecal examination, oh well. I have been hoping to have him into my retirement.

The problem? His vent is inflammed. It is red all around. This smacks of intestinal parasites, something I still suspect is a problem with his mother and the other oranda, but have been unable to capture a fresh specimen at a time when I can rush it to the vet (they need it very fresh to look for moving parasites). However, his apetite and feces (colorful and full), as well as weight gain all counter that. I'm hoping it is not an internal infection brewing. One other thought I had was that maybe it is his coloring coming in since he is 3 months old today, but it doesn't look like that and is actually a little puffy. I hope it's just a mild case of fishy hemorrhoids .

I hope the wee guy doesn't take a turn on me. It wasn't like that yesterday.



[span class="edited"][Edited by Cory_Di 2004-05-16 08:51][/span]

].< i hope Junior is just fine. hes/shes come such a long way, would be very sad to see him/her.... well you know.

good luck

Lets all chip in a dollar to bring him to the vet!!

Update. Things are looking better atm.

After this redness began to spread and was turning into what looked like a pustule or boil around the vent, but not directly in it necessarily, I decided to take action.

I had on hand, still sealed, some Tetra Medicated Fish Flake. I ground that to his size and began feeding it yesterday evening. This morning it was still there, and I fed the flakes again. This evening, I see no redness at all. It wasn't only red, it was swollen. Maybe it clearing is coincidental, but I'm going to keep him on the medicated flake for the full 7 days recommended. He seems fine otherwise.

great news. about how big is Junior now?

best of luck to u

It's back, worse than before .

He's just about 3/4 inch or 18 mm.

This fish has got to have some type of internal parasites. The area surrounding his vent is red, swollen and there is a 3mm white thing that is always sticking out, yet the poop comes out right above that. I finally broke down and dosed the tank with Jungle Parasite Clear Tank Buddies which is deemed safe for goldfish fry. That white thing sticking out was only about 1.5 mm out prior. I forgot to clean out the activated carbon in his corner filter, and it has only been running a week, so I don't know if it filtered out. I also crushed MetroMed which is medicated koi food for parasites. IT has milled in Metronidazole and two antibiotics. He's eating it and so far, no short term adverse reactions. I'm more concerned with damaging developing organs, but this thing looks nasty. I'll try to get some pics up. In spite of it all, he continues to eat and behave normally, but this thing growing out of the vent doesn't look normal at all.



[span class="edited"][Edited by Cory_Di 2004-05-21 19:41][/span]

does he (btw are u sure its a he?) move around in a wierd way or like doesnt want to move alot? i hope the parasites will go away or get a bit better and not cause longterm problems

best of luck to u

Well, it got really bad again, and is fading again. I'm not sure what is going on, but he is fighting it, that's for sure. Won't know sex for some time. The redness is gone today, but there is a white protrusion from the vent that remains. I have added more medicated food to his diet and I'm hoping that is turning things around. They can be mixed safely according to directions: Medikoi and MetroMed. I bought these 1.25 bags from PondRx.com when I first got my goldies (the smallest size it comes in) and it is ok to grind it down to smaller pieces since antibiotic and dewormer are milled in.

I have some really sad news tho: http://www.fishprofiles.com/interactive/forums/thread.asp?id=39336

EDIT: I heard back from a tech at Jungle Labs after sending an inquiry as to safety of medicating fry. He told me anytime after 6 weeks was safe for goldfish fry to use any of their products at full strength. Junior is fully developed and I think that is the critical thing with medicating. If you medicate while they are going from a larvae to a fish, I think that can cause problems. So far, so good with the meds and after 24 hours, the red is still gone. Only the white protrusion remains at the vent, but his behavior and apetite is anything but sickly.


[span class="edited"][Edited by Cory_Di 2004-05-22 07:13][/span]

From www.fishyfarmacy.com

A). The vent or anal area is inflamed, and feces are often slimey The feces contain small, thin worms.

This is the larvae of livebearing nematodes

Treat with: Paracide-X -or- Paracide-D.

E). Whitish, flat, elongated segments are seen coming from the anus. Or in fecal matter, several segments

Your fish are affected with a Tape Worm

Treat fish with Paracide-X, -or- Mix up some frozen food with Paracide-D and feed to the fish for 3-5 days.


Hope It Helps..

cory can you post a pic by any chance?

I will try to later. It is not red atm, just the slight protrusion of white. When he poops it is right below it, but at the vent itself. His behavior and apetite are that of a healthy fish. Any chance this is development related? I'll try to get a pic or two.

I thought too that it was parasites for sure. However, I am finding that certain aeromonas infections can cause bleeding and swelling at the vent. He continues to get a blend of antibiotic and I will do so for 7-10 days as directed. Unfortunately, I may have cross contaminated his tank and the tank of the parents. I just lost the mother, who did have hemorrhaging at the very end. She was swollen to one side leading me to believe a kidney was involved. She was in a weakened state due to her inability to eat well (deformed mouth) and I believe she just couldn't fight it off. I did not realize she was sick and had been working between the two tanks without properly sanitizing my hands.

I'm familiar with the Paracide products. However, I'm more confident with a product containing praziquantel, which is only made by Jungle right now. Junior is getting fed the deworming metromed, but he doesn't much like it. He does like the krill based Medikoi tho. That has like 3 antibiotics in it.

[span class="edited"][Edited by Cory_Di 2004-05-22 15:37][/span]

how long has this been happening to Junior any ways?

I first saw it about 6 days ago. This is now the longest he has gone without redness. Let's hope the medicated food is doing the trick.

Hi Cory_Di, I don't know if you will remember, but I posted some time a go, about my black moor having something protruding from the anal vent. I took her to my LFS for them to do a scrape and test for parasites. They told me that she didn't have any parasites at all. But I do wonder if you can detect internal parasites from a scrape of the slime coat (may be someone with experience of this could let me know) But she also does clear poop. It looks as though it...dont quite know how to explain this, but like sausage skin, with no poop inside it, which led me to believe something was eating the poop be for it had chance to come out. They told me that the lump was a tumor or growth deformity, it is getting bigger in size, but for most of the time she still behaves normally, but what is wrong with your fry sounds the same as my moor, so if you do find out what is going on, please let me know, and vise versa, although I must admit, I have tried getting to the bottom of this for the past two years now with no success.

Thanks TeeBee. Thankfully, since starting the antibiotic food in full force, the hemorrhaging ceased altogether for a good 5 days now. I can see a little of this protrusion and am hoping that things will be alright. The wee one poops quite well and behaves normally, so I'm hoping this is normal. I've still yet to have time to take a pic and upload it. I worked 13.5 hours yesterday (only getting paid for 8, but get to keep my job ). Oh well. I'm going to be feeding junior that medicated blend for another 5 days then discontinue. I'm feeling more confident now since the redness has gone. It looked very much like what can be seen with bacterial septicemia. I had a batch of new otos die that way and all hemorrhaged from at the vent and died within 48 hours.

good to hear Junior is doing ok.

im curious, how long does it take for gold fishes to fully mature so they can go into main tank?

I don't know myself. Many factors govern growth. He may be slower growing than others. Water quality plays a role, as does diet, temperature, oxygen levels.

I will tell everyone that Junior is doing excellent and seems to have fully recovered from whatever the hemorrhaging was. I'm going to continue with medicated feed a few more days (suppose to be 10-14).

I plan to get pics in the coming days, but have been swamped. I worked 13.5 hours Monday, 12 Tuesday and nearly 12 the next two days before getting today off. My house is a disaster and my bills are late . No time for fp.com .

One other thing that is notable. I'm seeing evidence that Junior may be developing a malformation of the mouth similar to mom's so it must have been genetic. I once thought it may be that she had laid funny in the egg, early in development and it pushed the mouth to one side. He has no trouble eating, but his chin looks asymmetrical. If this becomes more evident as he gets older, then he will always be kept alone so he doesn't have trouble competing. Hopefully, it is just an illusion, but I don't think so.

Junior is now about 1 inch or 25mm.

My frontosa had something similiar when given birth to. The lip is slanted, and it looks as if one part isnt attached, or the other part is.

Well, I'm going to try to post pics. They are not the sharpest. I was trying to get pics of the mouth area to show the deformaty. But he copes well with it. Now that he is fully developed, I don't think it will be a problem. Makes me wonder if that is what killed off the others. He's obviously had it all along - actually, when the bump under his chin showed up which was some time ago. That bump is connected to the deformation. My poor l'il ugly duckling. He also inherited mom's goofy backline. It abruptly turns up at the dorsal fin. I think one of the profiles shows it.

His mouth is closed in this pic. This side of his face is somewhat caved in below the mouth (chin area).



[span class="edited"][Edited by Cory_Di 2004-05-31 18:00][/span]
Cory_Di attached this image:
[img]http://www.fishprofiles.net/attachments/366683.jpg"]

Another pic - near the same temp gage for size reference. He (or she) is about 1 inch (25mm) long now. Very stocky, very hardy apetite and the hemorrhaging from the vent seems to have passed with the meds. I'm wondering about the corner filter I was using and whether it developed bad bacteria in it.

Blurry - but shows relative size.



[span class="edited"][Edited by Cory_Di 2004-05-31 18:02][/span]
Cory_Di attached this image:
[img]http://www.fishprofiles.net/attachments/366686.jpg"]

Another pic
Cory_Di attached this image:
[img]http://www.fishprofiles.net/attachments/366687.jpg"]

And, one more - all of these area about 4 months.

I don't know what made these pics so grainy ]:|

[span class="edited"][Edited by Cory_Di 2004-05-31 18:03][/span]
Cory_Di attached this image:
[img]http://www.fishprofiles.net/attachments/366688.jpg"]

Wow - I don't know why my pics came out so crappy looking .

Wow, he got big compared to the iron shrimp he was 4 months ago...(was it 4 months? )

Yep - four months.

The deformaty of his mouth is much more apparent now as he grows daily. He is managing tho and that is the magic word. No sense euthanizing an otherwise healthy fish, but he will be a loner so he won't need to compete. What still remains open is whether or not it will impede his ability to eat as he grows out. If I ever see he cannot eat, I'll euthanize.

He's a sweety tho, even if he's not the prettiest.

Yep, four months!!!

any updates? has he been clear of that uhh.... what ever it was?

He sure has been clear of it. No more bleeding from the vent.

I'll try to get more pics this weekend. I need to try to get closeups of that mouth. It is very hard. The extent of his deformaty is becoming more clear, but he still eats well. He has learned to live with it. I won't euthanize him unless I see he cannot eat or is losing weight because he can't eat well enough. Basically, his upper and lower mouth are not aligned. I now know why he had a hard time chasing food down that was in midwater. He doesn't know which side of his mouth to eat with. When it hits the glass bottom, it is easier for him to grab it. When I put gravel in his tank, I'll need to put a glass bowl in the corner so he has something smooth to eat from. Other than that, he is forming beautifully.

He is starting to darken at the top. Makes me wonder if he has any black in his genes. He's very active, playful and is now use to associating me with feeding .

I tried the crushed goldfish flakes, but I find he has difficulty eating them. He swims up to a piece that I think is small enough and his mouth seems tiny. I am still feeding him the Hikari First Bites powder which is small enough.

I'm thinking that his size is probably smaller than yours at 10 weeks due to the fact that he was in 67-70F temps, rather than warmer water which makes them grow faster. I wish I could measure him, but it is difficult.

whoa... LOOOOONNNGGG thread. i started reading around 4 (GMT -5) and just finished now.

real sorry that you lost 2 fry

good luck with Nemo

Thanks.

I will feel much more confident when my little guy gets to be a good inch long. With every day that goes by his chances of survival get better.

Nemo has been renamed once again. I don't know why, but I've been calling him Junior

yes that fry powder is very good. are you still giving him the bbs? i dont know is he will grow very fast on that powder...hehe

He's growing faster than he was now that he is getting microworms up to 3 times daily. I try to give him a fourth meal with the powder. Unfortunately, it has been too difficult to come home from work to feed him at lunch time as I once was. If I could feed him up to 6-7 times daily as I was at first, he would certainly grow faster.

might not want him to grow TOO TOO fast ].<

hows the little guy doin cory?
oh yeah by the way, my first bach of goldy fry this year hatched today!!!

[span class="edited"][Edited by jimg87 2004-05-08 22:34][/span]

My goldfish spawned on my anacharis, and they ate it right back

- Mine ate most of their eggs as they popped 'em out.

The little guy is doing very well and growing much faster now that he has figured out how to wrestle with the microworms and win. It's like watching a toddler eat spaghetti *slurp*. My mother hadn't seen him in a week and was shocked at how much he has filled out. He gets beefier with each day, I swear.

I hope to post pics soon. I just have been trying to catch up with finals having been last week. I've got bills that are late, my house is a disaster and it was all left in an effort to get through with school one semester sooner . I was suppose to take one last class this summer, but squeezed it in the last spring term.

i think we're dieing for the pictures you can make up by posting 100 xD

finals....you gotta love em!!
lol NOT!

Here we are at Week 11 and 2 days:

Hhhhheerrrrreeeee's Junior!!!!

He's after a microworm here. Hopefully, it shows in the pic. That macro lens of mine not only caught the microworm in the pic as he was about to eat it, but it details all the algae I haven't scrubbed off the front glass. He's been eating it and pooping green. I'm just glad he's eating his veggies in between regular meals.

EDIT: I give up. I finally download netscape so I can post pictures directly to fishprofiles.com and now the connection keeps timing out any time I have the attach image option selected. Never did that to me before.

I'll have to add to my website and will try to post them here later. I'll put a link here in a few minutes, right into this post.

EDIT 2: Here's the pics in my photo album

Fry Pics of Junior at 11 weeks

[span class="edited"][Edited by Cory_Di 2004-05-11 17:34][/span]

Way cool! He's starting to look like a real goldfish now!

It looks like a Micro Blue Oranda. Good luck raising him into a healthy adult.

How long is he now?

[span class="edited"][Edited by TheGoldenDojo 2004-05-11 18:27][/span]

I'm going to estimate about 13mm or just over half-inch in length. His length has increased slightly, but it's his body mass that has taken off. He is just filling out, rounding out and getting taller. He eats like a garbage disposal. That bump under his chin that worried me for the last 6 weeks is finally filling in with head. His head grew out to where that bump, which is basically where the gills ended, blends right in. If he's got any ryukin in him, I would expect him to soon be showing a deeper body versus that of a fry who is a product of two orandas.

I'm hoping he is part ryukin as that male has no swim bladder disorder whatsoever. Both orandas suffer from it regardless of their diet. As they are getting bigger themselves, it is more difficult for them to feed much. I have to do it in small feedings.

Oh - and he's finally able to run right up to larger pieces of goldfish flake and grab them in a single leap. As late as two weeks ago he was clumsy yet and just couldn't seem to grab stuff on the first try. Now he has mastered sudden attacks of microworms and flake . Last week he had a hard time eating these small pellets for fry and this week he has no trouble with them at all.

[span class="edited"][Edited by Cory_Di 2004-05-11 18:41][/span]

He's looking really good Diane!

Wow...I dont know what to say, he looks fantastic.
Well done

awwwww
Cory_Di,
He's looking great! Funny how big he looks till you relize that the sec pic has hornwort in it, and his attack on the filter . 11 weeks, and still counting .

^_^

heheheh it looks so cute (wierd from a guy, i kno ). best of luck to you and junior.

=o Junior is finally growing!! And getting the famous beer-belly.

Yay XD

Beer Belly . I like that. Is that what fancy goldfish grow? I've never seen a fancy mature. In fact, I can't wait to see if he's a ryukin or an oranda. I'm hoping he's part ryukin.

I was beginning to worry that junior was eating too much. He eats constantly. When I'm not putting food in the tank he just grazes all day long on the algae. I sense I'm going to need that 10 gallon real soon.

looking good cory!!!
huess what, i have about 1000 newborn fry!
want some, lol

Is that in a pond, I hope . Do they just take care of themselves?

I don't think I could handle a large scale breeding operation. But, I have enjoyed rearing and tending to a small number of fry, even if it has dwindled to just one.

Well, Junior may be in trouble, but I'm not sure yet. I'm going to email Jungle and the Marine Biologists at That Fish Place and hopefully get an answer soon. I'm half tempted to take a feces sample to a local vet. I've got 12 weeks invested in this little guy. If I have to shell out 15 bucks for a fecal examination, oh well. I have been hoping to have him into my retirement.

The problem? His vent is inflammed. It is red all around. This smacks of intestinal parasites, something I still suspect is a problem with his mother and the other oranda, but have been unable to capture a fresh specimen at a time when I can rush it to the vet (they need it very fresh to look for moving parasites). However, his apetite and feces (colorful and full), as well as weight gain all counter that. I'm hoping it is not an internal infection brewing. One other thought I had was that maybe it is his coloring coming in since he is 3 months old today, but it doesn't look like that and is actually a little puffy. I hope it's just a mild case of fishy hemorrhoids .

I hope the wee guy doesn't take a turn on me. It wasn't like that yesterday.



[span class="edited"][Edited by Cory_Di 2004-05-16 08:51][/span]

].< i hope Junior is just fine. hes/shes come such a long way, would be very sad to see him/her.... well you know.

good luck

Lets all chip in a dollar to bring him to the vet!!

Update. Things are looking better atm.

After this redness began to spread and was turning into what looked like a pustule or boil around the vent, but not directly in it necessarily, I decided to take action.

I had on hand, still sealed, some Tetra Medicated Fish Flake. I ground that to his size and began feeding it yesterday evening. This morning it was still there, and I fed the flakes again. This evening, I see no redness at all. It wasn't only red, it was swollen. Maybe it clearing is coincidental, but I'm going to keep him on the medicated flake for the full 7 days recommended. He seems fine otherwise.

great news. about how big is Junior now?

best of luck to u

It's back, worse than before .

He's just about 3/4 inch or 18 mm.

This fish has got to have some type of internal parasites. The area surrounding his vent is red, swollen and there is a 3mm white thing that is always sticking out, yet the poop comes out right above that. I finally broke down and dosed the tank with Jungle Parasite Clear Tank Buddies which is deemed safe for goldfish fry. That white thing sticking out was only about 1.5 mm out prior. I forgot to clean out the activated carbon in his corner filter, and it has only been running a week, so I don't know if it filtered out. I also crushed MetroMed which is medicated koi food for parasites. IT has milled in Metronidazole and two antibiotics. He's eating it and so far, no short term adverse reactions. I'm more concerned with damaging developing organs, but this thing looks nasty. I'll try to get some pics up. In spite of it all, he continues to eat and behave normally, but this thing growing out of the vent doesn't look normal at all.



[span class="edited"][Edited by Cory_Di 2004-05-21 19:41][/span]

does he (btw are u sure its a he?) move around in a wierd way or like doesnt want to move alot? i hope the parasites will go away or get a bit better and not cause longterm problems

best of luck to u

Well, it got really bad again, and is fading again. I'm not sure what is going on, but he is fighting it, that's for sure. Won't know sex for some time. The redness is gone today, but there is a white protrusion from the vent that remains. I have added more medicated food to his diet and I'm hoping that is turning things around. They can be mixed safely according to directions: Medikoi and MetroMed. I bought these 1.25 bags from PondRx.com when I first got my goldies (the smallest size it comes in) and it is ok to grind it down to smaller pieces since antibiotic and dewormer are milled in.

I have some really sad news tho: http://www.fishprofiles.com/interactive/forums/thread.asp?id=39336

EDIT: I heard back from a tech at Jungle Labs after sending an inquiry as to safety of medicating fry. He told me anytime after 6 weeks was safe for goldfish fry to use any of their products at full strength. Junior is fully developed and I think that is the critical thing with medicating. If you medicate while they are going from a larvae to a fish, I think that can cause problems. So far, so good with the meds and after 24 hours, the red is still gone. Only the white protrusion remains at the vent, but his behavior and apetite is anything but sickly.


[span class="edited"][Edited by Cory_Di 2004-05-22 07:13][/span]

From www.fishyfarmacy.com

A). The vent or anal area is inflamed, and feces are often slimey The feces contain small, thin worms.

This is the larvae of livebearing nematodes

Treat with: Paracide-X -or- Paracide-D.

E). Whitish, flat, elongated segments are seen coming from the anus. Or in fecal matter, several segments

Your fish are affected with a Tape Worm

Treat fish with Paracide-X, -or- Mix up some frozen food with Paracide-D and feed to the fish for 3-5 days.


Hope It Helps..

cory can you post a pic by any chance?

I will try to later. It is not red atm, just the slight protrusion of white. When he poops it is right below it, but at the vent itself. His behavior and apetite are that of a healthy fish. Any chance this is development related? I'll try to get a pic or two.

I thought too that it was parasites for sure. However, I am finding that certain aeromonas infections can cause bleeding and swelling at the vent. He continues to get a blend of antibiotic and I will do so for 7-10 days as directed. Unfortunately, I may have cross contaminated his tank and the tank of the parents. I just lost the mother, who did have hemorrhaging at the very end. She was swollen to one side leading me to believe a kidney was involved. She was in a weakened state due to her inability to eat well (deformed mouth) and I believe she just couldn't fight it off. I did not realize she was sick and had been working between the two tanks without properly sanitizing my hands.

I'm familiar with the Paracide products. However, I'm more confident with a product containing praziquantel, which is only made by Jungle right now. Junior is getting fed the deworming metromed, but he doesn't much like it. He does like the krill based Medikoi tho. That has like 3 antibiotics in it.

[span class="edited"][Edited by Cory_Di 2004-05-22 15:37][/span]

how long has this been happening to Junior any ways?

I first saw it about 6 days ago. This is now the longest he has gone without redness. Let's hope the medicated food is doing the trick.

Hi Cory_Di, I don't know if you will remember, but I posted some time a go, about my black moor having something protruding from the anal vent. I took her to my LFS for them to do a scrape and test for parasites. They told me that she didn't have any parasites at all. But I do wonder if you can detect internal parasites from a scrape of the slime coat (may be someone with experience of this could let me know) But she also does clear poop. It looks as though it...dont quite know how to explain this, but like sausage skin, with no poop inside it, which led me to believe something was eating the poop be for it had chance to come out. They told me that the lump was a tumor or growth deformity, it is getting bigger in size, but for most of the time she still behaves normally, but what is wrong with your fry sounds the same as my moor, so if you do find out what is going on, please let me know, and vise versa, although I must admit, I have tried getting to the bottom of this for the past two years now with no success.

Thanks TeeBee. Thankfully, since starting the antibiotic food in full force, the hemorrhaging ceased altogether for a good 5 days now. I can see a little of this protrusion and am hoping that things will be alright. The wee one poops quite well and behaves normally, so I'm hoping this is normal. I've still yet to have time to take a pic and upload it. I worked 13.5 hours yesterday (only getting paid for 8, but get to keep my job ). Oh well. I'm going to be feeding junior that medicated blend for another 5 days then discontinue. I'm feeling more confident now since the redness has gone. It looked very much like what can be seen with bacterial septicemia. I had a batch of new otos die that way and all hemorrhaged from at the vent and died within 48 hours.

good to hear Junior is doing ok.

im curious, how long does it take for gold fishes to fully mature so they can go into main tank?

I don't know myself. Many factors govern growth. He may be slower growing than others. Water quality plays a role, as does diet, temperature, oxygen levels.

I will tell everyone that Junior is doing excellent and seems to have fully recovered from whatever the hemorrhaging was. I'm going to continue with medicated feed a few more days (suppose to be 10-14).

I plan to get pics in the coming days, but have been swamped. I worked 13.5 hours Monday, 12 Tuesday and nearly 12 the next two days before getting today off. My house is a disaster and my bills are late . No time for fp.com .

One other thing that is notable. I'm seeing evidence that Junior may be developing a malformation of the mouth similar to mom's so it must have been genetic. I once thought it may be that she had laid funny in the egg, early in development and it pushed the mouth to one side. He has no trouble eating, but his chin looks asymmetrical. If this becomes more evident as he gets older, then he will always be kept alone so he doesn't have trouble competing. Hopefully, it is just an illusion, but I don't think so.

Junior is now about 1 inch or 25mm.

My frontosa had something similiar when given birth to. The lip is slanted, and it looks as if one part isnt attached, or the other part is.

Well, I'm going to try to post pics. They are not the sharpest. I was trying to get pics of the mouth area to show the deformaty. But he copes well with it. Now that he is fully developed, I don't think it will be a problem. Makes me wonder if that is what killed off the others. He's obviously had it all along - actually, when the bump under his chin showed up which was some time ago. That bump is connected to the deformation. My poor l'il ugly duckling. He also inherited mom's goofy backline. It abruptly turns up at the dorsal fin. I think one of the profiles shows it.

His mouth is closed in this pic. This side of his face is somewhat caved in below the mouth (chin area).



[span class="edited"][Edited by Cory_Di 2004-05-31 18:00][/span]
Cory_Di attached this image:
[img]http://www.fishprofiles.net/attachments/366683.jpg"]

Another pic - near the same temp gage for size reference. He (or she) is about 1 inch (25mm) long now. Very stocky, very hardy apetite and the hemorrhaging from the vent seems to have passed with the meds. I'm wondering about the corner filter I was using and whether it developed bad bacteria in it.

Blurry - but shows relative size.



[span class="edited"][Edited by Cory_Di 2004-05-31 18:02][/span]
Cory_Di attached this image:
[img]http://www.fishprofiles.net/attachments/366686.jpg"]

Another pic
Cory_Di attached this image:
[img]http://www.fishprofiles.net/attachments/366687.jpg"]

And, one more - all of these area about 4 months.

I don't know what made these pics so grainy ]:|

[span class="edited"][Edited by Cory_Di 2004-05-31 18:03][/span]
Cory_Di attached this image:
[img]http://www.fishprofiles.net/attachments/366688.jpg"]

Wow - I don't know why my pics came out so crappy looking .

Wow, he got big compared to the iron shrimp he was 4 months ago...(was it 4 months? )

Yep - four months.

The deformaty of his mouth is much more apparent now as he grows daily. He is managing tho and that is the magic word. No sense euthanizing an otherwise healthy fish, but he will be a loner so he won't need to compete. What still remains open is whether or not it will impede his ability to eat as he grows out. If I ever see he cannot eat, I'll euthanize.

He's a sweety tho, even if he's not the prettiest.

Yep, four months!!!

any updates? has he been clear of that uhh.... what ever it was?

He sure has been clear of it. No more bleeding from the vent.

I'll try to get more pics this weekend. I need to try to get closeups of that mouth. It is very hard. The extent of his deformaty is becoming more clear, but he still eats well. He has learned to live with it. I won't euthanize him unless I see he cannot eat or is losing weight because he can't eat well enough. Basically, his upper and lower mouth are not aligned. I now know why he had a hard time chasing food down that was in midwater. He doesn't know which side of his mouth to eat with. When it hits the glass bottom, it is easier for him to grab it. When I put gravel in his tank, I'll need to put a glass bowl in the corner so he has something smooth to eat from. Other than that, he is forming beautifully.

He is starting to darken at the top. Makes me wonder if he has any black in his genes. He's very active, playful and is now use to associating me with feeding .