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Garry

Im really interested in your suggestion about bulking up the plants on the left side of the tank. Im worried there isnt going to be enough light for the Ludwiga, Vals & Apongeton. I was wondering if I should move the main Piece of driftwood to the left side so that the filter intake is blocked from view and might allow for the plants to be completly upright, or move all three plants to the right side then move the nanas to the left with the bolbitis and maybe put them on the same piece of driftwood that would remove the intake from view. What you think. Could i drop the intake to the floor?

Thanks for your input as always, Shane
http://thetanklog.blogspot.com/ - [ Thanks to ScottF ]
http://www.natureaquariumclubofutah.com/main.html

fishmonster, It doesn't matter which side you choose to bulk up with plants . I was just thinking about how to make the scape look more interesting . BTW I can't quite see you filter intake from the photo's . Can you post another set of photos .

My comments were about creating a really jungle look on one side moving down to a low side . A lot of really interesting looking tanks do that . The other alternative is to have a gap or a river just offset from the centre and lots of heavy planting on both sides supported by your driftwood .

In the end it depends on your personal preferences and the look you want to go for . You have lots of options
Also remember these things change over time so you might want to wait till the plants grow in and then make soem changes .

Its all up to you . Post some more photos and tell us what you want to achieve and the guys around here can give you lots of ideas .

Enjoy
Garry

Well this week has been an interesting week for my 10 Gallon Planted tank. I was given the advice to beef up one side of the tank. But then I ran into a small problem of algae.



There was black what looked like bearded algae on the leaves of my Bolbitis heudelotti but i was told it was something else that nothing would eat. So i took that and the DW out of the tank as the DW had plenty of java moss with alage on it. I guess my ottos wont eat the hair algae.

The plant looked like this

This turned out that the dead leaves on the plant had most of the algae. After talking in the forum i decided to cut off the dead stems and let the plant re-grow new stems from the Ryzhome.

So when i did that i decided to change out the tank completely. I ended up moving the main DW to the right of the tank and putting the apongeton in the right corner. Infront of that i put the Ludwiga and then in front of that i added the DW with the two pieces of Anubias Nana on it.


I changed out the tie downs and added fishing line to most of it with one piece of wire holding down some Java Fern on the left side.

On the left side i re-added the Corkscrew Vals which were growing nicely, slowly but nicely. I have also moved the crypts over there too. Now the Crypts killed off their old leaves and have new leaves in place so i beleive they are used to being submerged in the water now. The Bolbitis heudelotti however im not sure what is going on with that. I have two Ryzhomes which are together on one end of a piece of DW and on the other I have added a Java Fern.



Here is a full view of the tank now.



So i have freed up some space in the middle of the tank. Im hoping the vals and Crypts will grow in and eventually move the Crypts to the middle of the tank infront of the DW. I have placed Java Fern pretty much all over the DW but they are babies and juvenile ferns so they may take some time to grow in. I have cleared some of the moss away from the DW hoping it will grow back. So now what do i do guys? I cant add any more light than i have right now. Someone was talking to me about CO2 or Ferts but not sure on how to use them or what to use. I did a 40% water change tonight aswell.

Thanks for your input as always, Shane
http://thetanklog.blogspot.com/ - [ Thanks to ScottF ]
http://www.natureaquariumclubofutah.com/main.html

fishmonster, Love what you have done , looks like the basis of a great scape . I would let it sit for a while and see how it grows in . You can always make some changes latter .

As far as Ferts and C02 are concerned , you need balance .
You've already got some algae which suggests that the balance is not right . I'm currently trying to get this right in my tanks as well . Not easy

I would suggest you read one of LF's low tech tank logs and maybe go to the Seachem site and have a look at their Ferts .
Keith often suggests to people that you can email Seachem with your params and they will give you a suggested fert regime which will include Excel instead of C02.

Anyway just a couple of thoughts, Hope they help .

Garry

fishmonster,

In response to your PM where you reach out for help:

- I would remove the moss completely, it is done. Once it settles with algae there is nothing you can do to get it clean again, except maybe a bleach bath but that most likely would kill the moss as well.

- Bolbitis needs a really long time to settle. During that time, algae on the old leaves is common, at least in the two tanks (1 high, 1 low tech) where I use it. You did the right thing with trimming off the worst affected leaves.

Overall, seems like your tank is equipped with insufficient numbers of fast growers. Anubias, Bolbitis (at this stage), and crypts take up a lot of space but don't help to settle the tank. Who cares if the tank is a beauty in scaping at this stage of its life? I sure don't - this is stuff to worry about later. Stay away from your constant redos, this will only unsettle any adjustment the plants have made so far to your tank. And believe me, I know what I am talking about, "LITTLE_FISH" style redos are legends for which I sometimes had to pay a high price.

You are lucky that I found the time to write all of this (or at least state my opinion on the current affairs in your tank), given that I am very busy with work and such. If you choose to ignore (as in not acknowledge) this input like you did with my last one in this thread I guarantee you that I will no longer bother participating. I have better things to do then to spend 30 min on research and thinking for nothing. I sure don't mean that my opinions are right all the time, or maybe not even 50% of the time , but total ignorance of an entry is not appreciated.

No offense,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hi,
Rubber bands, while readily available are not acceptable
for use holding plants down to driftwood.
They are constrictive, and will damage the plant's
rhizome and roots as they exert constant pressure and
eventually cut them off, killing them.

Most of us use black, cotton, sewing thread to loosely
hold the plant to the wood. Over time the plant leaves
will grow over the thread, hiding it, while the roots will
grow into the wood attaching the plant. As that process
occurs, the thread will rot, and by the time the thread
has rotted off, the plant will be firmly attached. The
process harms neither the plant, nor the tank as it occurs.

Others use fishing line. The difference is that the line
will not rot away and at times after plant trimming, can
always be seen.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Mr Frank,

I have already done that after reading about the rubber band elsewhere i think it was said in Country Fish's Log. I did use fishing line as i thought that would be good thing to use has Country used that also. Once my plants attach themselved I will remove it from the tank. Thanks for that suggestion.

Ingo,

That was my bad and i didnt realise you wanted a reply to your second posting. I have gone ahead and added some Horntwort to help with the fast growers and I have gone ahead and moved the Bolbitis to the front laying it on top of the substrate to see if that will help with allowing it to grow and feel the flow from the filter.

I am also thinking of adding some difformis from my other tank also, but im not sure where to take cuttings from on that plant. It has several spots where what looks to be runners are comming from the stems of the plant. Should i cut there or not?

Thanks for your input as always, Shane
http://thetanklog.blogspot.com/ - [ Thanks to ScottF ]
http://www.natureaquariumclubofutah.com/main.html

fishmonster, I used Nylon thread on my Annubias and that was a mistake . The knots didn't hold .
So I think when I do it again I will use cotton thread .
I know Keith uses fishing line cause he thinks cotton rots before the plants get attached .

Up to your preference I suppose .

Garry

fishmonster,

Sometimes, a reply to an entry is for sure not required, but if one asks someone a specific question (as you did) pointing to someone in specific to answer it (which would be me, in your case) and that person gives a rather elaborate reply then at least an acknowledgement of this effort is appreciated. And this goes for life in general, I would say. Aaaaanyway :

No matter what you do with the Bolbitis, in a low tech / low light tank it will take a long time to settle. Laying it down on the substrate is probably a bad idea as this is not how the plant grows naturally.

Fishing line or thread, a question I ask myself rather often. As I don't own fishing line I use thread. But thread is not thread is not thread. I used to have some thread that was excellent and did the job wonderfully. This one is empty now so I use a different one (don't tell my wife as it is hers), but that one disintegrates way too fast for my Nana petites to have the time to attach themselves. I think that the first thread I had must not have been 100% cotton but instead contained some components to increase the strenght.

Adding Wisteria is a good idea, stuff the tank with fast growers and remove the moss (add some much later when the tank is settled).

Enough for now,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Ingo,

I guess i need to research some more on the bolbitis, Any good places for me to check that? Also the moss is on my DW, im worried ill disturb the tank if i remove the DW from it. Should i just try and remove as much moss as i can for now? Also I was thinking i could remove the Apongeton from the back and add some difformis to the tank as another fast grower. I will see if i can find some wysteria localy or water sprite.

Thanks for your input as always, Shane
http://thetanklog.blogspot.com/ - [ Thanks to ScottF ]
http://www.natureaquariumclubofutah.com/main.html

Actually, I have not seen a good site with regards to Bolbitis, all my knowledge is from members of my club and my own experience.

Apons can be rather fast growers as well, but wisteria should be faster. Remove as little as you can and just add plants, no matter what the current look of the tank would be.

Might be that you distrub the tank when removing the wood. If you can then you could try to carefully remove the moss with the wood in the tank, but make sure you get all loose parts.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Ok well to be honest i went ahead and removed the DW completely. It didnt disturb any of the crypts, Vals or Anubias. The Ludwiga however was rotting at the bottom of the stems. I cut off the bad sections of stems and replanted them near the front of the tank. Also the Apongetons had become unrooted. So i re-planted them at the back of the tank. The DW freed up alot of space. I also bought water sprite. So now i have water sprite, Hornwort and the Apons at the back, The Apons look like they are splitting again, This time they are splitting at the root into what looks like 3 seperate plants. The Java ferns that were on the DW i put back in the tank and am letting them float so they can grow hopefully as they are tiny.

I am listening Honest... I just did it last night before i got your reply.

Thanks for your input as always, Shane
http://thetanklog.blogspot.com/ - [ Thanks to ScottF ]
http://www.natureaquariumclubofutah.com/main.html

fishmonster,

even if you had done what you did after reading my entry it would have been ok, no need to apologize for your actions. Imagine I give you some really wrong advice and against your guts feeling you follow it and bad things happen. What did I loose? Nothing!!! What did you loose? Maybe your entire tank. In the end, we are all the gods of our own tanks and only what we decide to do with them counts.

Glad to see that there seems to be some growth (apons) and that you took care of rotting plants (ludwigia). Also good that you added more plants

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Well now i have removed what im hoping to be the main source of the algae, (funny thing is that was the same source of algae in my old 30 gallon tank also (algae on the Moss)) I will see some improvement on the tank. With the hornwort i am seeing growth almost daily in some of it and its not actually in the substrate, just sat on top with a weight. As i was told its a floating plant i thought might as well just let it sit there lol, that way i can move it when i want to hehe. I will let the apons grow and hopefully split and keep an eye on the bolbitis at this point. I can see there is growth in the roots of the bolbitis which im hoping is a good sign. Thanks for the help Ingo and Garry i appreciate it.

Thanks for your input as always, Shane
http://thetanklog.blogspot.com/ - [ Thanks to ScottF ]
http://www.natureaquariumclubofutah.com/main.html

Ingo

After further research on the Bolbitis, it seems that everywhere i go i'm told that it needs a small current for it to flourish. I have read it can be grown either on DW or on top of the substrate as it does not like rocks. So my question to you, What would you think about moving this particular plant to my 35 Gallon with the same amount of light. I have a internal filter i can add to give the current and then lay the bolbitis on the DW with cotton almost next to the output of the internal filter and see if it does better. I understand about not disturbing the plant but as its already disturbed i don't think it would make that much difference.



Thanks for your input as always, Shane
http://thetanklog.blogspot.com/ - [ Thanks to ScottF ]
http://www.natureaquariumclubofutah.com/main.html

Sure you can try that. Indeed, Bolbitis likes its current. A downside to this though may be the appearance of BBA, as that algae likes current as well.

I would not attempt (and I know you say you use DW) to plant it on the substrate directly as one may have a hard time fixing it to the substrate without burying the rhizome (bad idea). But is is true that on its own Bolbitis will extend off the driftwood and grow even over the substrate.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

fishmonster, Sounds like your learning fast mate , I think Ingo is right in the end its up to you .
What floats your boat is right for you .

Lets see some more photos of what you are doing .

Garry

Sorry i havent replied sooner guys, the house move isnt going that well and i dont have easy access to the net right now. Anyways, The 10 gallon is gettin worse even with the fast growers in there. Im thinking im gonna put that down to experience and try again but do it slower this time.

Also I am going to float the Vals, crypts in my 35 gallon tank and move the DW with the Nana's and the bolbitis on to the 35 gallon. The biolbitis is showing signs of growth which is an excellent thing. But im going to change what fish i have in the 10 gallon and add shrimp and so on.

So bear with me buys i know this is bad but i think it will work.

Shane

Thanks for your input as always, Shane
http://thetanklog.blogspot.com/ - [ Thanks to ScottF ]
http://www.natureaquariumclubofutah.com/main.html

Shane,

Sorry to hear that, keep one thing in mind when floating the 10G plants in the 35G, make sure that you are not shading the plants in that tank then with all the floaters.

Keep us posted,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Ingo

Yeah im doing my best with that. luckily the only plants that are not floating are the Vals, Hornwort, Difformis and the Anubias nanas. All of which i have heard can handle a little shade. Apart from the Nana's the others all have leaves on the water surface and should be okay.

Thanks Ingo, keep the comments comming.

Thanks for your input as always, Shane
http://thetanklog.blogspot.com/ - [ Thanks to ScottF ]
http://www.natureaquariumclubofutah.com/main.html

Well my friends im sorry i havent update either of my tank logs for a number of weeks. I have been moving and unpacking for the past 3 weeks so its been a busy time. As far as the 10 gallon goes, with the move i had to strip the 10 gallon down. I had nowhere to put it, plus the tank was getting overloaded with algae. So i thought it would be a good decision to take the tank down and move the plants and fish to my 35 gallon tank. I appreciate al your comments and ideas on this tank. I will be rebuilding this tank as soon as i have the money to fix it. At that time I will start a new log. So for now I will just be posting in my 35 Gallon log.

Thanks for your input as always, Shane
http://thetanklog.blogspot.com/ - [ Thanks to ScottF ]
http://www.natureaquariumclubofutah.com/main.html

Ok so as i wrote in my other log i have upgraded the 10 gallon to a 20 gallon tank. I have also added new substrate, new lighting and I have also purchased new plants and I have added amano shrimp in this tank. Its current inhabitants including the shrimp are 5 ottos, 2 cherry barbs and 4 Gold barbs. The tank has been running for several weeks now. I was wondering about some ideas for this also. I am also wondering if CO2 would be too much, i know it was for the 10 gallon but im wondering with this being a 20 gallon High if it would make any difference. Right now most of the plants in there are not very high and are starting to grow. I havent dosed any nutrients yet. The substrate is 40lbs of Flourite.

Thanks for the input

Shane

Thanks for your input as always, Shane
http://thetanklog.blogspot.com/ - [ Thanks to ScottF ]
http://www.natureaquariumclubofutah.com/main.html