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Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

OK I got the dirt and have it in the tank. It smells like potting soil, and looks like dippin dots.

I also got my lights today as well as the background. Everything is all set up.

Tank just after adding Gravel
Tank with Lights and background

Not much to see, but you get the idea.

Now on to the fun part! I'll start scoping out for plants and driftwood. Should I get the hardscape first or get wait until I know what plants I have avaliable?

Thanks


Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

Rick,

It is interesting to see how much lighter the substrate looks once the light is turned on. Also, that is some bright green heater that you got there . I assume it is a 50W, right? Have you see (and/or thought about) This Heater?

Should I get the hardscape first or get wait until I know what plants I have avaliable?

That question plagued me when I set up my big tank as well. In retrospective, I for sure would say to get our hardscape first and then the plants. Otherwise you may run into the same issue I did, having a fully planted tank and having to take everything out to adjust the scape with a new piece of driftwood (skim through my log to view the disaster it created). Also, most likely the hardscape you get is not exactly what you invisioned. Having it in your hand, and maybe even being able to place it in the tank and to play with it, might just give you a better idea what plants would look good with it.

Hope this helps,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Agree with LF above regarding the hardscape. If you can, set up a little area with the same footprint as the tank and play around with your options there. Then you can step back, look at it from all angles and make sure you have it right. When you do decide to plant make sure to go heavy.

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Back in the saddle!

The Substrait from the picture sure looks a lot like Seachem's Flourite.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Sounds good. I'll be looking for a good piece of driftwood over the next few days so I'll keep you posted. I also can get some good rounded granite rocks I may add as well.

I'm thinking of some branchy driftwood sticking up in the middle. I plan on planting taller plants on the side with lower plants nestled around the base of the driftwood. I might have some moss on the upper parts of the wood as well.

I'm thinking of a concave style, with Crypt Balanse and Java ferns for the back corners with smaller crypts and Anubias nana through the front. I'd like to find some wisteria and mix that in around the driftwood. I'll probably also through what ever fast growers I can find it at first even if has to float to help prevent algae.

How does this sound? Do you guys see any major flaws in my plan? I am really just kind of guessing as far as plants go and there is so many choices I'm sure I'm overlooking most of them.

Thanks


Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

Rick,

I'm thinking of some branchy driftwood sticking up in the middle.

Maybe you would like to try to offset it a little from the middle - leaning towards the middle. The shorter side could then be densly planted with taller plants in the back, and small ones in the front. The base of the tank could be surrounded by crypts, that would look nice. And the wider right side could be lower plants (when the tank is settled) and for now could serve as the area for the helper-fast-growers.

A Nana in the front is too tall. If you can, go look at my 29G log in the aquascaping forum and check the last pictures. There is a Nana in the front.

Do you guys see any major flaws in my plan?

Not at all - my input is only a suggestion and potentially worse than your idea. We all know that I am not the power scaper (yet)

Hope this helps,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks for the aquascapeing advice LF. I will definitely try having out center and see how it comes out. I did some shopping after work though at a couple of the LFS but none had any branch driftwood. They were mostly solid chunks, although some did look kind of nice.

Thanks for the heads up on the nana too. I guess I assumed that it would be smaller.

I did get to see what plants are available in my area. Here is a list (Please forgive my spelling). If you all could point out what would be good for newb like me that would help!! This isn’t everything they had I didn't write down any of the swords as I know they get to big as well as any that I thought were really high light like Rotalas.

Crypt Ciliata
Crypt Wenditi Bronze
Crypt Retrospiralis
Crypt Balanase
Crypt Lutea
Anubia nana
Anubias Afzelli
Anubias Bartarie
Hygro
Narrow leaf Hygo
Cambodia
Hornwort
Dwarf Sag
Apon longiplumosus
Fish Tale java
Java fern
Westirea
Aromatica
Bacopa
Dwarf Subulata

They all looked like they were in pretty good condition. I don't want all of them, but will pick maybe two or three of these and stuff with fast growers like westirea


Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

Rick,

I assume this is still the light you are planning to use "I am replacing with two 10W CF", right? In this case, most plants that are a little more light demanding are not suitable. You may be mostly stuck with Anubias, Crypts, and Java Moss and Fern, plus maybe a few other plants. In addition, you have to consider the limited height of the tank.

On to your list, to my best knowledge:

Crypt Ciliata - tall crypt with medium and more light
Crypt Wenditi Bronze - Crypt Wendtii, nice
Crypt Retrospiralis - 30" in my high tech tank
Crypt Balanase - nice, can get tall though
Crypt Lutea - nice
Anubia nana - nice
Anubias Afzelli - can grow taller (maybe over 10" )
Anubias Bartarie - Anubias Barteri, nice but similar to Nana and taller, may be too big
Hygro - Which one? Giant, Difformis, or what? Don't know about the light though
Narrow leaf Hygo - nice, Just got it a few weeks back, called Hygro anugustifolia, grows tall but can be trimmed nicely, Don't know about the light though
Cambodia - Cabomba, light
Hornwort - Ugly and messy, but would work
Dwarf Sag - Maybe needs more light, in any way I prefer Echinodorus tenellus
Apon longiplumosus - don't know this plant, all I found was This 10G tank that has it somewhere in there. Note the light source.
Fish Tale java - if that is Java Moss, then good, otherwise I don't know
Java fern - good
Westirea - Wisteria, good
Aromatica - Limnophila aromatica I think needs way more light
Bacopa - eh, more light
Dwarf Subulata - should be the same than Dwarf Sag, is called Dwarf Sagittaria subulata

Well, I hope this helps,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Well, I hope this helps,

It helps very much! based on the narrowed down list here is what I think would be a good starting point.

Crypt Balanase (I could use Java Fern to replace this if it would be to high for the tank.)
Anubias nana
Crypt wenditi
Westirea
Hygro - (I will probably get one stem of this to see how it does. I may not have enough light, but Tropica has some varieties as low to high and some other as medium to high).

I realize it isn't the most exotic list of plants but it seems like an appropriate group for a low tech tank.

Does anyone know anything about the Eleochalis plants? Tropica says that some varieties can grow in low light and I thought that maybe later on it would be a nice foreground addition.


Thanks


Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

I realize it isn't the most exotic list of plants but it seems like an appropriate group for a low tech tank.

More so for the low light tank . And it is usually a good idea to stuff the tank in the beginning with fast growers to help with the establishing of the environment, so maybe you even may consider getting the very slow growing Anubias later (and maybe even the crypt).

The Eleocharis that I know of (acicularis) is commonly called Hair Grass and I believe it would not grow well in your tank. It needs quite some light in order to flourish.

Hope this helps as well,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Week 1 Update.

Yesterday I went to the LFS and bought my plants. I got pretty much what I had listed above. The planting was much more difficult that I had anticipated and overall doesn't look very good right now.

Here is the tank after 24 hours
Full Tank Shot

Notice how cloudy it still is. This soil has a very fine powder in it and it seems to go through my filter without getting out. Does any one have any ideas how I can speed this up to clear the water (better filter maybe). Will the haze affect my light and hurt the plants?


Here are some close ups on the plants.

Crypt Wendeti Browns
Java Fern Wendlov and Westeria


I need more plants. I'll pick up more wisteria this week. It looked like more when I bought them. Also planting is very difficult. The crypts were hard to get the roots buried.

Crypt Balanase Roots
This picture shows what I ended up with. Do I need to redo it? It seems that to much of the root is above the gravel.

Thanks


Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

Rick,

It sure does look a little messy in there

Is the tank still as cloudy as it was when the picture was taken? How did you fill up the tank - meaning, did you pour water directly onto the substrate? This could be the reason as finer substrates are more e to be disturbed. I don't know about your filter intake, but mine is basically 2 pieces and if yours is the same then I would say you should remove the lower one for the time being.

I don't think that the cloudiness would harm the plants in such a short period, but it won't help them settle either. BTW, yeah, I think some of your Crypt roots stick out way too far. The one further to the left in the close-up doesn't seem to be buried at all. Do you have tweezers to plant them? Also in that shot, what is the plant way at the right?

Overall, yes - you did the same than most of us (myself included) do, you bought not enough plants. Wisteria, or Water Sprite, sounds like a good idea to fill the empty spaces (for the time being). Later you can use more crypts and anubias in their place.

Ok, so let's see a new shot now that the cloud should have settled. Oh, but you may have a white cloud instead now, perfectly normal for newly setup tanks (for a few days).

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Is the tank still as cloudy as it was when the picture was taken?

That picture was taken 24 hours after planting. A few hours later it was a little less cloudy, but it was by no means clear. I'll take some more pictures after work today.

How did you fill up the tank - meaning, did you pour water directly onto the substrate?

I poured water over a plate. I should note that it wasn't near as cloudy when I started planting (granted it wasn't clear either). Most of that got stirred up when I was planting.

I think some of your Crypt roots stick out way too far. The one further to the left in the close-up doesn't seem to be buried at all. Do you have tweezers to plant them?

These crypts were the biggest source of my frustration. They had a lot of roots and when I tried to put them in the soil it would stir up dust. I tried using a tweezers but the roots would prevent it from going in. If I used my fingers it would uproot the previous plants. The more I fussed with it the more dust got stirred up and I couldn't see what I was doing.

How long can they sit like this before they die? Is this something I need to fix right way or can I wait till I solve the cloudiness problem?

Also in that shot, what is the plant way at the right?

It is a Narrow Leaf Hygo. I thought I'd try out one stem and see how it does. I wish I had bought a bunch of them though instead of the crypt as it was so much easier to plant.

I will buy some more westeria today. BTW, when I planted it I left it bundled together with the little binder. Is that OK or should I have planted each individual stem?

I am also trying to figure out how to make my little HOB filter more efficient at removing the dust. The best I have come up with is by some for filter floss and stuff the little packet as dense as I can. Right now it seems the dust just flows right through it. I'll try that and do a water change and see if I can help clear it up faster.

Thanks for the help Ingo. It sure is nice having a little more experince to pull from when doing this!

Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

I usually trim the roots of new plants a bit before planting. Makes it easier to keep them down. It shouldn't hurt the plant because it will just grow new roots down into the substrate. It'll just look not so great with the roots sticking up.

Maybe I missed this, but what kind of substrate are you using? It looks like flourite...

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Back in the saddle!

NowherMan6
Thanks, I'll definatly start doing that. I'll probably need to pull all the Balanase up and fix it

what kind of substrate are you using?

I'm using the ADA Aqua Soil Amazonia.

Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

Duh, that's right, you said that on the previous page.

Maybe it's the soil that's leaching into the water, though from all I've read it doesn't seem like it's supposed to do that. Mine just arrived the other day - along with 3 aquatic plant magazines full of interesting articles and brilliant tips on setting up a planted tank... now if only I could read Japanese!

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Back in the saddle!

NowherMan6 San

It is a Narrow Leaf Hygo

that's what I thought (but was too shy to state), did you see that I added this plant about 2 weeks ago to my tank? It grows very nice for me. Get more if you can while you pick up the Wisteria, which, btw, you should not keep together with the binders. plant them stem by stem. I found that multiple stems planted together are more likely to rot. If the stems don't stay down individually then try to angle them when you stick them in the substrate (like 45 degrees, if possible).

Yeah, you could go ahead and trim the roots a little, but don't cut them all off. What I do in this case is that I bunch up the long roots and actually grab on with the tweezers at that spot. Then I shove them in the substrate and the bottom of the plant will go in as well. If you can then plant them a little deeper than needed, remove the tweezers (carefully so you don't pull the plant back out) and then pull the plant a little up again to its final position. And I would do that as soon as you have time for it. I have nothing to back this up, but I believe that roots above the substrate develop differently than roots below it, like having to absorb nutrients in a different fashion.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Well

I unfortunately this pesky thing called work got in the way of me getting to the LFS to get more plants yesterday. All I have today is a new tank picture. I'll put the picture from day 1 and day 2 to compare. It is clearer in the sense that there doesn't seem to be any particles floating around, but the water is still very hazy.

Tank Day 1
Tank Day 2

Maybe it is the white cloud? I don't know how to tell for sure. I have never had this problem in my unplanted tanks.


Either way it will hopefully be gone tonight. I'm going to get the new plants. Then I am going to drain the tank until the water level is just above the gravel. This way I can re-level it and replant everything to my liking without the problems I had the first time. Then I will fill it up very slowly with fresh water and hopefully it will stay clear.


Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

Hey Rick,

Check out this link: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/photo-album/30369-ada-90cm-tank-journal.html

It's a series ofphotos showing Jeff Senske setting up a client's tank. Two things to note:

1.) He didn't fill the tank up when planting - just wet the substrate. This allowed him to position plants and re-position them without putting any of the substrate materials into the water column, thus preventing clouding. Could this have been your problem.

2.) Notice how he initiall stuffed the tank right from the get-go. The plants didn't grow in height wise yet, but the bottom is pretty much covered, except in the places he doesn't want to be covered.

Also not further down in the thread how he mentions not adding fish for a month or so. It allows the tank to settle in first. I bet he adds some Japonica shrimp after the first week or so to tackle any little bits of algae that start. Good pieces of advice on how to start up a tank.

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Back in the saddle!

Well it took me awhile to post new pictures. Yesterday was a pretty crappy day. My truck got broken into at work and my radio was stolen. Very frustrating, but at least my wife took pity on me and blanked out the ole Honey Do list so I can play with the tank.

Anyway there is a lot more plant mass in there now. The aquascapeing isn't so good but I can play with that later. I drained the tank and it was much easier to plant but I still had to redo the wisteria as it uprooted while filling up the tank. The haze is still there though. Right now I am just going to wait and see if it disappears in a few days.

Tank Day 4

Also I have a plant question. When I first bought plants on Saturday I got a Narrow Leaf hygo. When I got plants yesterday I got a few more stems. I wasn't paying attention when the guy bagged them, but when I got home I noticed they look completely different.

Can anyone tell me what I have? (The plant on the left is from Sat. The plant in the middle is from yesterday.)
Mystery Plant



Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

Rick,

Sorry to hear about the break-in

At least it gave you some time for your tanks

The aquascapeing isn't so good but I can play with that later

That is the right attitude, scape is not all that important right now, getting the tank settled is.

The way right corner of your tank looks like a battlefield. Seems like some plants still need proper setups.

About the mystery plant: I think it is Hygro angustifolia as well, just grown under different conditions (probably less light). You will know for sure after a while when both, old and new plants, grow under the same conditions for a while.

And - if you get bored - you can still add more plants , there seems to be some open space left.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

The way right corner of your tank looks like a battlefield.

Yeah, it looked pretty bad in the picture, although today it is looking much better. The crypts were the last to go in so they sat out of the water longest. The leaves have recovered some by now and it is looking much cleaner. All the plants are planted this time so I imagine they are much happier.

I think it is Hygro angustifolia as well

It's amazing how different they look. I wonder which form will happen in my tank. I'll have to take a picture in a couple weeks to see.

Now that everything seems to be settling in. When should I start thinking about fertilizers?

I figure the soil is pretty rich and with no CO2 it may not need any for a couple weeks. I looked at GregWatson.com and priced out KNO3 and KH2PSO4, and Flourish. Is that OK? Or am I going over kill. The fish stocking is likely going to be light so I don’t think I can rely on the fish to provide enough nutrients to keep the plants happy.

All in all it's coming along now!! Hopefully it will clear up here in a couple days and I'll start seeing some new growth.

Also anyone who is looking, feel free to suggest fish. In addition to three or four shrimp I am tossing about some ideas:

A pair of female betas or
A M/F Ram or
A M/F Dwarf Guarumi

Feel free to chime in. I just don't want any bottom feeders other than shrimp because I don't want to stir up any more dust than I have to.


Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

When should I start thinking about fertilizers?

Well, I hope you have started already to think about fertilizers.

Given that you have no CO2, you most likely will get quite a few different opinions about ferts. Here is mine:

Find out your tab (that's what you use for water change, right? ) Phosphates. If they are high (2pm ++ ) then you would not need to add additional P to the tank.

Get KNO3 and KH2PSO4 (if needed, otherwise you may want to replace it with Potassium Sulfate), get small measuring spoons and bottles to pre-mix fert specific components as if you should decide to use dry ferts you would need only tiny hard to measure amounts.
Get a good micro fert mix, I like my Tropica Master Grow.

And then dose the right amounts (we will help you once you figured out what to get) maybe twice a week, and you could have started that yesterday

About the fish:

A pair of female betas or -- Not my kind of fish
A M/F Ram or -- fragile and way not made for new tanks, very sensitive
A M/F Dwarf Guarumi -- maybe one only

How about a gourami and 3 Otos?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hi read your post on LF's new tank log. Is the ADA product still clouding the water? After how many days? Is it improving at all?

Cheers
TW

Is the ADA product still clouding the water? After how many days? Is it improving at all?

That's my guess. Everything in the tank has a light dusting, but I don't see any particles in the water. Ingo mentioned that it may be a white cloud bactriea bloom, so I am hoping that it might go away in a couple days.

I set the tenk up on Tuesday. I planted it with no water and filled it up slowly.

It's hard to tell if it is improving right now. It looks about the same to me from one day to the next. I have to say my non planted tanks have crystal clear water so this is totoally new to me.



Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

Week 2 Update

This week was pretty active setting up the tank. I added a good amount of plants and am still dealing with cloudy water. I have started to notice some algae growth, but nothing out of control yet. The biggest surprise to me is the plant I expected to grow the slowest seems to be doing the best. The Crypt Wenditi brown has more visible new growth to me then any other plant in the tank.

Full Tank Shot Week 2
Algae on Anubias
Amazing Crypts!

As to my current problem with cloudy water, I have a hypothesis. The ADA instructions say the following.

Do Not position the outflow pipe of the filter in a way that the water flow directly hits Aqua Soil and make the aquarium water cloudy.

Here is my filter

HOB filter.

When I look at the tank I notice that all the way in the front the crypts are swaying in the current. I think that the down flow of the HOB is stirring up the dust. The problem is I don't know if I can fix it with out using a different type of filter. I was looking at some internal filters at PetSmart and some of them look promising because I can direct the outflow towards the surface or horizontally instead of downwards.


Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

Rick,

I got an answer for you

I had the pleasure to talk to someone today who uses the ADA soil since over two weeks now. There are a few side effects to that stuff:

1) The one regarding your tanks as you can see it. The soil creates a lot of tannins in the water, that is the "cloud" that you see. Supposedly this is the way the substrate works, and the guy I talked to says he does large weekly water changes to keep it somewhat in check.

2) Another side effect (although we somewhat knew about this one) is the ph lowering effect of the ADA substrate. The guy's tank went from 6.5 to somewhere in the upper 5s, that is a big change.

Hope this helps,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Oh Gosh!!! I was way over thinking this. Thanks Ingo it is so obvious. While the soil may be leaking tannins, I have a nice big piece of fresh driftwood that I did not presoak!! No wonder my water is so dark.

I was just thinking it was the soil since there is a fine film on the water. But now that I look at it, it does just seem to be tannins.

Will the dark water significantly reduce my light? I am already pretty low on light with just 2WPG. I don't want to push it any lower. If so I will need to do pretty heavy water changes these next few weeks.

I will order my fertilizers this week. I will order a pound of the KNO3, and KH2PSO4 from GregWatson.com. For the micros I can order Flourish or should I look around the LFS for TMG?

I will also be getting me some nice little Amano Shrimp this week to start my cleaning crew.


Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

Well my ferts have been ordered and shipped so I should have them shortly. I went to the LFS to get a couple shrimp to start the tank off with but I found this handsome fish.

New Betta

So I bought him as well.

Before I added him to the tank I checked my water. I had 2.0 ppm Nitrites! Yikes! At least I know I am half way through the cycle. I did a 50% water change and then put him in. Hopefully he can survive the rest of the cycle. Bettas are pretty tuff so I'm not to worried.

I also checked my pH. Water that has sat for an hour or so out of the tap reads around 7.6. My tank after a week and a half was reading 6.0 . Between the ADA soil and my driftwood leaking tannins it really lowered my pH.


Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

Rick,

"to get a couple shrimp" - what kind of shrimp? Did you add them? I was under the impression that shrimp should not be added to a cycling tank.

"I had 2.0 ppm Nitrites!" - where does this come from? Seems to me that something is off. Too many fish, or too much food, bad reading of test kit, no plant uptake or too few plants, or something else. What is the Ammonia reading?

"... around 7.6. My tank after a week and a half was reading 6.0" - Wow, that is sure some difference. But the first thing that strikes me is the "week and a half" statement . How come you didn't do the weekly water change? Besides that, how do you envision future water changes, wouldn't a 50% change conclude in an instant significant ph change as well? I got no answer to that question but it would be something to think about.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

What kind of shrimp? Did you add them? I was under the impression that shrimp should not be added to a cycling tank.

They are regular Amano shrimp. And Yeah I added them. I was kind of worried about them so I will be watching the tank closely until things settle down.

Where does this come from? Seems to me that something is off. Too many fish, or too much food, bad reading of test kit, no plant uptake or too few plants, or something else. What is the Ammonia reading?

Easy - dieing plants. There were no fish in the tank until last night and I wasn't putting any food in. When I was doing the water change I noticed the bottoms of some of the Hygro were rotting. I pulled them out. There are still some leaves tucked into places I can't get my fingers though. I guess I don't have enough light for Hygos. I will watch the rest for rotting and pull any out that I see. I guess I should trying harder to pull out anything I see that is dead. With heavly planted tanks how do you get all the dead stuff out?

The Ammonia was just barely registering maybe 0.25ppm. This is why I think I am half way through the cycle. The ammonia is dropping and Nitrite is spiking. I'll be checking again tonight and every night until it stabilizes at zero.

How come you didn't do the weekly water change?

Remember, that I am giving Tom Barr's non-CO2 methods a shot. This involves no water changes. Now since I am setting this up and don't want the fish to die, I will be changing the water until it is cycled (In smaller amounts to not induce too much of a pH swing). Once it is cycled I will be adding a little bit of SeaChem Equlibirum to replenish some of the buffers and keep everything stable.

I probably jumped the gun on the fish and shrimp but I underestimated the amount of waste the plants generated on their own when decaying. I will need to be much more on top of that from now on.

Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

Remember, that I am giving Tom Barr's non-CO2 methods a shot.

Sorry, I forgot that one again, I am getting old

That is going to be interesting, tannins and ph altering stuff in the tank and no water change. You sure are not afraid of trying out new things (unlike me, I am a chicken).

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Things were looking better last night. The new Betta and two shrimp were present and accounted for. The Betta made quick work of creating a bubble nest. That to me was a pretty good sign.

The Ammonia remains low. I can't tell for sure if it is 0 or 0.25 as the colors are so close. The Nitrite remains pretty high. I added some cycle to the tank to help try and speed up the processes and get the nitrites down.

The pH was at a nice 7.0 last night so the water change seemed to add enough buffers as well as remove a big chunk of the tannins. It is much clearer and lighter in the tank today.

All and all it seems to be doing better. Pictures to come this weekend!


Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

That to me was a pretty good sign.

Or he figured that he has to rush things a little, given the current water parameters (just joking) .

The pH was at a nice 7.0 last night so the water change seemed

So Rick, tell me: do you do water changes at will or was that the major exception? I believe that following the "no water change" rule is a realy challenge. Does it state somewhere what to do in case of an emergency, like your high Nitrites? Or how about after treating with medicine (I wonder if that has been considered in the first place, as Tom may assume people put their sick fish in a QT or something)?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Rick, I forget if you mentioned it already, but what's your normal Ph out of the tap?

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Back in the saddle!

Well the article I read says basically no water changes as you are adding CO2 back into the water and destroying the enzymes in the plants that allow them to cope with low CO2.

That being said I imagine that someone like Tom has the resources for tanks that are larger and driftwood that has been presoaked. As for sick fish like you said I can just assume that adding medicines is not part of this.

Right now since I am setting this up I'll do water changes as needed. Once the bacteria in the tank can handle the Nitrite and I am happy that the tannins from the Driftwood are mostly soaked out, I will probably really try the methods in earnest.

I am very curious though to see the differences in this tank with say TW's new 20G. She is doing a non-CO2 tank as well, but I imagine she will be doing a more typical maintenance schedule. It will be fun to see how both tanks progress.

NowherMan6
Sorry, didn't see your post. Out of the tap it is around 7.6. Although to be fair I can't say if it is the driftwood or the ADA that is having the biggest affect on lowering pH. I would need to set up a tank with ADA only and see the pH differences.


Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

Rick,

This non-CO2 method you mention, this means no Excel either, correct?


Also, I asked about your ph level with the ADA soil and I foudn that in my 4G with no DW the ph dropped from 7.4 out of the tap to 6.4. I'm also using Power Sand which contains more peat, so that may have something to do with the bigger drop, but if anything else I think your ph drop is due to the ADA.

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Back in the saddle!

NowherMan6

Wow. That soil is strong stuff then. Do you add any Equlibrium or bakeing soda to keep the buffers up or are you cool with low pH.

I wonder as the soil ages if the pH lowering affect will deminish?

Rick
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Rick,

Didn't your tank drop from 7.4 to 6?

I think it was TW who mentioned that she heard/read somehting like "while eco loses its effect after 2 to 3 years, ADA soil keeps it for 10 years"

If that should be so then you will not see a "lesser" ph drop for quite a while.

Also, does anyone know if the addition of peat lowers the ph to a certain point or is the lowering in itself an ongoing process, meaning if you keep it in long enough the bottom will drop out eventually?

Ingo

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