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Ok Little_Fish, you asked for it, so here it is. I have decided to start a log of my 25 gallon tanks progress from low tech, low-light, non CO2, to a bit higher tech, higher light co2 tank. I am preparing to replace the current single 20 watt bulb hood with a double 40 watt (2 20w bulbs). Adding a Hagen Ladder CO2 kit, and replacing the gravel and adding more plants. I realize that there are a few logs of this type already but I would like to have this space for suggestions and all the questions I will have during the process.
To begin I will list the current tank stats, and add a link to the before pictures. I will also have some now pictures as the tank has been deteriorating quickly recently. I have not yet determined in what order to begin, but I do know that the gravel will probably be last as it is quite cool in here now and I do not have a large enough bucket for the fish while I am changing the gravel. The CO2 is actually the cheapest of my changes, the light hood will cost quite a bit more, but I may be doing both very soon.

Tank Stats Now
25 gallon long tank
Light 1 24" 20 watt bulb
Aqua-Clear 50 HOB filter
1 elite HOB heater
Red and Black decorative gravel, about 10mm I think, it's huge!
1 natural driftwood with java fern and java moss
1 natural cave made from river stones
1 unnatural plastic castle (fish love to hide behind it, otos like to eat off it)
1 amazon sword (outgrowing tank after 1 yr)
several cryptocorne wendi and a red variety
1 water onion
4 e tenellus
several water sprite (hate 'em!)
2 anubias nana
2 java fern 'windelov' (love 'em)

1 kribensis
6 tiger barbs
5 danios
4 otos
1 SAE
Pictures to follow after I find the link!

Here they are
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c56/luvmypetz/25gallonPlantedTank.jpg

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

And the whole tank the way it used to look.
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c56/luvmypetz/25Gfullview.jpg

I use peat in the filter and in the water change bucket as the KH(300ppm)and GH(300ppm) from the tap are very high, the pH(7.8)is also higher than I would like. After adding CO2 I will not have to worry anymore about the numbers being too high, but I will continue to use peat (maybe less of it though) as it makes the fish look very nice, it really brings out their colours!

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

luvmykrib,

Sounds good to me

The more logs the better (hope Adam shares this opinion ).

It seems like you pretty much made your mind up on what you would like to do (in general).

I already have a question, if you don't mind? What are the dimensions of a 25G long? I am wondering if it wouldn't be better to up the light even more as this would probably become your limiting factor. 40w over 25G is not quite a lot.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

The tank dimensions are: 31 1/2" long by 12" deep by 16" tall.
I am not sure if I can easily get a hood the right size that would have more light. It's worth a try, although I don't want a really high-light high maintenance tank. With three kids and a hubby working away, guess who does everything in and out of the house!
Right now the limiting factors are Light, & CO2. Though I do use Excel to compensate.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

luvmykrib,

Well, maybe I can at least show you an option that would be feasible for your tank. How about This One?

It would give you 65W, or 2.6wpg. Believe it or not, this would not be enough to get you in the High Light range (IMHO) as your tank is smaller and as such needs more light to achieve similar effects than less light on a large tank. If you purchase the mounting legs as well then you can place the strip elevated above the glass cover (you have one, right? ) and have it rest on the top frame (have one of these too, right? ).

I have this unit on my 29G (30x12x18) and that is not a high light tank at all (no CO2 except Excel and once a week ferts).

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

The tank is the Hagen Waterhome 25, there is no glass. The light has some kind of waterproofing gasket that prevents water from getting into the fixture. I have noticed a lot of evaporation and have to top it off every couple of days. That's why the light hood I was looking at, it will fit the tank I've got, and have the wterproof bulb set-up I have now. If I change to a different style, then I need to get glass and such. Also was that in US$, it would cost more than the one I'm looking at I think. But thank-you, I have no idea what my options for light are really.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Yeah, I would think you'd want around 60 watts over this tank in order to make good use of the pressurized CO2.

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Back in the saddle!

The Hagen CO2 isn't pressurized from what I can tell, it's more like the DIYO isn't it? It has to be fed like the DIY type.
60 watts? I had nothing but troubles when I had that kind of light on the 2g. I had a PC bulb for reptile homes on it and the tank was awful for algae! I would need to really add a lot plants then wouldn't I?

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Sure - 60W on a 2G tank is too much

Also, it was probably a totally wrong temperature (Kelvin value). And you knew nothing about ferts (right? ).

I seriously don't think you would need to stuff the tank with a 65W fixture. But I see your problems: Your tank has no rim for a glass top. Its real measurements are 80x30x40 in centimeters, right?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

60W sound slike a lot but as LF mentioned above it really isn't. That's 2.4 WPG, same as what I have on my 46. Maybe even 50W would be good - if light became your limiting factor then CO2 would just be wasted.

Whoops, you're right, the Hagen set up is not pressurized, I misread... nevertheless, it'll be wasted if enough light isn't given.

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Back in the saddle!

The Hagen CO2 isn't pressurized from what I can tell, it's more like the DIYO isn't it

Lumykrib,
Don't waste your money refilling with the hagen co2 ingredients. One packet is yeast and the other baking soda.
Just buy these things in the supermarket and you will save alot of money. The canister is o.k, although it's kinda small. I would eventually use a 1 liter soda bottle with some tubing ,make the mix yourself and use the hage ladder diffusor. The soda bottle will hold more co2 than the hagen cansister and you won't have to change it as much. There are many sites that will show you how to do this.

My Scapes

Here are the new pics of the tank as it is now. The water sprite was a horrible plant for this tank, yet it is doing well in the smaller tank.
The whole tank, sorry about the reflectionshttp://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c56/luvmypetz/25GallonWholeTank.jpg
The left side http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c56/luvmypetz/LeftsideCave.jpg
The right side http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c56/luvmypetz/DriftwoodandCastle.jpg
And the middle with the filter clogging up http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c56/luvmypetz/CloggingFilter.jpg

The gravel will most likely be changed to a natural black gravel, it would complement the river stones quite nicely. I am also hoping to add some more driftwood, I like the way it looks when sort of piled up, like a spreading mound, with lots of anubias petite and java fern and moss. I would really like to replace the water sprite with some wisteria, I love Tettatechs well trained wisteria, I have been praticing my whip technique so I'm all ready. Any other plant suggestions for after the light change, I will try and see if I can get a 60-65 watt fixture for the tank. It's a good thing I have started the log before doing the change, otherwise I'd be doing this

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

You guys were posting while I was linking my pictures. Ingo - I think those are the dimensions of the tank in centimeters, I was using imperial as most of you are Americans, plus for some reason I can't think in metric, and I grew up with it! And it wasn't 60w on 2g, but it sure seemed like it! And no idea about ferts? Oh yeah!! It was a disaster from the get go!
Tetratech - I hadn't planned on getting the refills, I just wanted the kit for start-up so I have less to worry about messing up! If I mix my own after the initial start-up then I will have a better idea of how often it will need to be done, how much I need etc. I look at the kit as a template and a learning tool.
Once I know what the light will be I will need to refine my fert regimen, on hand are the basics N,P,K, and extra Fe and K as well, and I'll be getting Flourish as Frank's experiment thread has shown that it has the trace in it.
Anything else I might need for ferts?


"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

luvmykrib,

Instead of the Flourish, have you considered TMG (Tropica Master Grow)? You can get it from Big Al's. I am very happy with it for my taces. It seems you got all your macros (K, P, N) and even some extra Iron (in what form anyway, nails ? ).

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

in what form anyway, nails?

Would that work?

I have the Seachem Flourish Iron, I have looked at TMG, it is what the store I buy from uses, but after reading the logs I was determined I needed 12 different bottles (thanks guys)and could only find 3 there! So, the TMG(for traces), Flourish Iron, Potassium and Excel(for algae and the 10g), the Nutrafin Plant-Gro N,P,K (for CO2 enriched tanks), anything missing?
When and if the bottle of Plant-Gro ever runs out should I just use the TMG? It is a all-round fert isn't it?
As I said I want an easy to maintain tank and if I can get the ferts I need in as few bottles as possible then that's what I'd prefer. Although I have come to appreciate being able to dose a single fert when it is needed. The only one I don't have on it's own is the phosphorus. Though I also haven't started testing for it yet, I have just assumed if the nitrate level is good, then the P is also there. Could I be wrong? Probably, it's been known to happen, with great frequency lately!

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

luvmykrib,

TMG is basically a micro mix, but I think it also contains some K, as the Tropica site states "it contains none of the nutrients already present in water due to fish excrement, uneaten fish feed, etc." which would be N and P (I assume).

Here is the link to Tropica's page where they explain the product.

I know too little (aka Nothing) about the products you use to tell you if they are sufficient or not.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Well then I would still need the N,P from somewhere if the fish don't produce enough for the plants to use, unlikely at this point but when the CO2 goes in I may need to add it. I'll worry about that when it happens, and keep looking for a replacement, Big Al's carries the whole Kents line as well in Edmonton, so I'll look there to see what I may need to get.

Hagen doesn't have a whole hood that has 65 watts and would fit on my tank, I may need to look at retrofitting something. Which means I may need to also get a glass cover. Then I could get the light you recommended. I'm still hunting. It will be at least two weeks until I can get anything.
In the meantime, I may be pulling out the horrible water sprite, and trying to replant the hygo polysperma, it doesn't stay rooted too well near the filter uptake. I am thinking I will get some plants when I add the light, any recommendations for what might look good with the set-up the way it is and the new light. I want something to fill in the front of the castle where the Water Sprite was, I really want wisteria but if I can't find it, something else will do (but not WS!). And a plant thet will fill in the back near the uptake and return, maybe more onion or vals?

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Luv,

Just get some Greenlight Stump Remover or other brand this is Potassium Nitrate) from a home improvement store. That will take care of your N and K within the EI range. I don't believe there's really a need to buy a separate K fert. I use:

1. Greenlight stump Remover (N,K)
2. P04 (P) - you could also use Flourish Phosphorus if you want
3. Flourish - you could also use TMG, Kent's or other micro fert

That's it. There is alot of K in the Stump Remover and I see no signs of K deficiency in any of my plants.

Greenlight, PO4, Flourish your done!



My Scapes

I already have the K, but good idea when both the bottles run out! The name kind of gives me the shivers though, the driftwood is basically a stump!

When I asked my LFS about dosing P, I was told the fish make the P and I don't have to add any!? Is this different with CO2 and more light? Until the N,P,K I have runs out I won't need to get anything, but when it does I will need something then, so the Flourish P04 is good?



"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

fish food contains P, look on the list of ingredients. Any uneaten amount will add some to your tank. P also comes in sometimes via your water supply. The plants will do OK without P supplements, but it's nice to dose some every so often to add a little boost. It certainly need not be added in the same levels as N

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Back in the saddle!