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When I asked my LFS about dosing P, I was told the fish make the P and I don't have to add any!? Is this different with CO2 and more light?

B.I.N.G.O

My Scapes

Uneaten food? I need a video of the feeding frenzy then! The barbs and the krib don't leave too much and the danios and the SAE take care of the rest. I should start testing for P. then, it may be lacking.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

It is not only uneaten food that contains P, it is also eaten food when it leaves the fish again

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I really should start testing for it though, then I'll know if I need to add it or not. I'll add a test kit to the list of things to get. I've gotten pretty good at telling when the plants need iron/potassium, and the water change helps to keep the nitrates down, although I have had to add some, not often though.
And Chuck Gadd's C02 calculator has been added to my favorites. I haven't stopped messing with the KH and GH though(I like peat flavored water!), but I'm not messing with the pH anymore although I don't want the fish to go into shock when the pH drops with the addition of CO2.
The pH has been holding steady around 6.8-7.2, I know it will drop but will it cause acidosis when it does. It's a 0.8 drop I believe was what Chuck Gadd said in that article with the calculator. That shouldn't be too much right?

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

luvmykrib,

What is the influence right now that makes your ph flucuate from 6.8 to 7.2, the peat? How come (curious, not questioning the process)?

When you add CO2 the ph will not drop, it will decline. That verbiage makes it less frightening. There will be no sudden change, rather a gentle slide. What is your KH again?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

From the tap, KH and GH are around 300 ppm, with the peat KH DECLINES to about 80-120 ppm and the GH to about 120 ppm. I am using the strips until I go shopping MYSELF and get a drip test, my brother is on the same water treatment plant as me and he has the drip test and it registers about the same. Peat is not supposed to make the pH go up, it is supposed to help it go down, it does soften the water a fair bit, but the pH likes to be above 7. There is some buffer in the tap water that the peat is not removing, or the KH and GH are actually higher than the test will read. I am adding more peat and that is working, it goes in a filter bag in the water bucket with an airstone and sits for at least a week between changes. As far as I know there is no easier way to remove buffers from the water, aside from the Blackwater extract which is really just concentrated peat. I am looking at it as a supplement to the peat, so I don't need as much on hand. When the CO2 goes in things will likely settle down a bit. Then it will be only the 10g needing the peat and me just liking the peat in the 25.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Your tank sounds great !

Tip re the diy co2 mix - let's adjust that slightly.

With your ph, gh, and kh it will not be necessary to use baking soda in your co2 mix (which is just there as a buffer).. So skip it, and gain a little more Co2 production as a result

The Amazon Nut...

Algae! Long stringy, short and hairy, green and splotchy! What to do about it! I have read the articles and would like to figure out which nutrient is the culprit, do I need more or less of something, should I hurry up and go get the CO2 now or is it ok to wait for my birthday(3 days) at least and then get it. I have tried the excel and it is not working. This is in the 10g, the 25g only has the spotty kind on the glass and ornaments, the scraper gets a bit of exercise and the otos get full tummies.

I am also thinking about adding some cories to the 25, the bottom level seems rather bare as the fish who are supposed to prefer it seem to go anywhere they want! The krib and the SAE are most often seen at the top begging for food or 'schooling' with the barbs looking for food and very rarely are they at the bottom looking for food. See the picture, they seem to think I need to be feeding them all day long and well into the night, greedy little pigs. I could put cories in but they may go hungry.

I have pandas in the 10, I would like small sized cories (around 1 1/2-2" like the pandas but tough enough to handle the barbs and krib. And how many could I squeeze in and should I wait until after the CO2 and new light or even longer and wait until after the overhaul?

Current residents
1 krib
1 SAE
4 Otos
5 Danios
6 Tiger barbs



"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

DaMossMan- love your signature! I know I need a sushi fix when I look at my tank and instead of the barbs I see little maki swimming around the tank and I start to drool!

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Ingo, I got the coralife light you recommended, now I need to find a glass top and get it set up! By tonight I will have bubbles in the 25!


My tank has no plastic rim and Hagen doesn't have glass tops that fit my tank either, so now I'm on the hunt for that. I also picked up the Hagen CO2 unit, it was on sale at one of my favorite vendors, SuperPet, I think it is a Canadian chain, they are usually more knowledgeble than the employees at PetsMart, but even they couldn't find the light, or glass top.

So I guess the CO2 will go in first, this should actually work in my favor I think, the plants will start to use up more nutrients so that I don't have a big algae bloom when the light goes on. I hope...
Someone mentioned that some crypts will melt when the light amount increases, anyone know which ones, the crypts I have are all common varieties, I don't know all their names, well theres Bob, Sue and Sally... sorry I'm all giddy with joy and need to go play with my CO2 now!


"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

luvmykrib,

Do you mind posting how the Hagen CO2 Setup goes? I am looking at purchasing that exact same thing for my 25G, and I'd be interested to see how your setup works and what if any problems you had.

-Rick


Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

It was pretty easy to set up.The instructions are easy to follow and the diagrams are easy to read as well. The activator is just yeast, so be sure to have the temp in the right range when you add the water, you will need about 1/2 cup of sugar to start, then add the yeast and warm water. Tighten the cap really good so CO2 doesn't escape and hang it on the tank, you get a nifty little rim attacher for this. Next you will install the tubing into the ladder, it goes in a certain way, then you attach the suction cups and install the ladder in the tank. I placed my ladder near the intake tube of the HOB filter, and the canister isn't very far away so I trimmed the tubing to just as much as I need to span the distance. I am holding on to the tubing incase I need to move the ladder or it breaks down. The next step is to attach the tubing to the top of the canister and then wait for bubbles to begin, which the instructions say take about 2 hours. The bubbles may take 24-48 hours to learn to stay in the diffuser, I'll let you know how it goes and I will take a pic of the set-up the way it is now.


"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Now for some pictures.
Here's the canister attched to the tank, I've taken the hood off.
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c56/luvmypetz/Tanktopwithnohood.jpg

And here's the ladder from the front
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c56/luvmypetz/LadderDiffuser.jpg, sorry about the reflections, my son is blocking as much as he can.

Notice in the first picture there is no rim on the tank, here's a shot of the light hood.
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c56/luvmypetz/Lighthood.jpg

The new light needs a glass cover for the tank, any suggestions? I need some kind of rim for the glass top and the new fixture. One guy at the LFS said I could use the bottom rim for the top, I see problems with that anyone else?

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Ok, it's been a couple of hours, how long does it take for bubbles to start forming? I tried to make sure the water was warm but not too warm, I added the yeast and the sugar, not the baking soda because the KH is usually pretty high, connected everything properly. Do I just need more patience?
Uugh!

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Did you activate the yeast before you added it? I believe you take the yeast and add a little warm water (enough to make a brown paste) and stir it well to aerate it. This gets the yeast going and then you can add it to your mix.

Just a thought for something to try on the next batch.



-Rick

Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

I re-read the instructions and it said 2-10 hours, so I guess I have to be patient. I'll remember that tip for next time, I know you do the same with bread, add warm water and let it sit for 1/2 hour I think. I'm not much of a baker though, hope this goes better!

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

luvmykrib,

Are ther bubbles now?

About the glass top: Sounds like you have a lot of problems there. Is it possible to get a top that just rests on the tank itself? It wouldn't have to be the whole depth of the tank, you could keep the back (with filter etc) open and a little in the front as well (for feeding). Maybe your local window replacement store has an idea (maybe they even know where you could get some plastic that can be sticked onto the glass at the sides). You could also inspect if it is possible to separate the bottom area of your old hood and use that part as a base. In any way, it seems like you would have to be creative to make it fit. Did you get the legs with the fixture? If not then you may want to consider them as this fixture creates quite some heat.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

You should have bubbles in the morning. I used to add a little protein powder to the mix to help activate the yeast.



My Scapes

Hey,

Activating the yeast will probably save you trouble. I am a decent baker and have learned from expirence that you cant trust every pack of yeast to be good. If you activate it in a little bowl at least you will know its good before you mix it in. It should be very obvious in mabey 15 min that it is alive.

Also, just to make sure for activation the temp should be about 90-100F if it felt really warm against your skin, it could have been a bit higher than that which could slow things down.

Choas

__________________________________
- - - Humorous Bit of Wisdom - - -

The bubbles haven't made it to the bottom of the ladder yet, but there is definitely gas being produced. I am wondering if I should have it closer to the heater, the pictures on the box all have the heater beside the ladder and I wonder if that would make a difference? If so then I could do that fairly simply by moving the heater, then I won't lose any gas.
I will make sure to activate it properly next time. I was careful not to make it to warm I have done that with bread before and what a flop that was. Does the baking soda make any difference with getting the reaction going, soda bread rises good without yeast. I would think it wouldn't affect KH when it goes in the canister rather than the tank.
I'm probably wrong on that but I would love an explanation as to why I am!

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Adding baking soda to the canister won't affect the KH of the tank unless the water some how mixes. But then I think KH would be the least of your worries (i.e. Drunk fish )

My understanding is that the backing soda is to counteract some of the acidic by products of the yeast to prolong the culture's life. If your water already has a decent KH then you probably don't need it, as the alcohol will kill the yeast before anything acidic does.

Rick


Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

Thanks, I think that makes sense!

I have bubbles! Yea! I can't count them yet, 1 bp5 seconds right now but it's just getting going.

pH 7.3 (below 7.5 and above 7.0)
KH 180 ppm
GH 150 ppm

Now I'm going to watch the bubbles, I may have to move the computer so I can watch and type at the same time. This could keep my kids occupied better then the washing machine at Grandmas!

Question: Some of the bubbles have gotten stuck halfway up the ladder, is this ok? normal? should I try to dislodge them or leave them? they have glommed together into a super bubble and I'm worried.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

I am wondering if I should have it closer to the heater

Hmm, I am just getting started with this too, I have my 2 liter bottle wrapped in a towel, like I do with rising bread, and am getting about 5 bubbles per second, which is franky more than I need. I dont know if this really effects activity of the yeast though.

As for the bubles that are getting trapped Im not sure, though the goal of this is to get the bubbles contact with the water so at least they are not escaping. You may have seen that some people use a bell, which is just a way to hold one super large buble in constant contact with water. In both that case and the ladder's you are just trying to keep the co2 in contact with the water as long as possible.

Chaos

__________________________________
- - - Humorous Bit of Wisdom - - -

Thanks Chaos, I think I may try a towel, my house is poorly insulated and the temp is never above 20 C unless I crank it right up, it could be that it's not warm enough. The bubbles are still going very slowly but they are not as stuck as they were, at least they are staying on the ladder and not escaping it. I think the bell would cost more than I paid for my whole kit so I'm going to stick with the ladder for now. Any tips on increasing the yeast activity? I may need to for the next batch. I have it down now about activating the yeast before adding it and the water to the mixture, then I'll know before it goes in if the yeast is active or not. I could have gotten an old batch. I have some baking yeast here for the next time incase it is old. The kit came with a 3 month supply of activator and stabilizer.

Water changes, anything about them now that may change with the CO2, obviously I can't stop the flow, should I slow it down so I don't lose gas during WC or not worry about it and do them the way I have always done them?
I have little valves that I can patch into the line, they are made for O2 lines though so I'm not sure how that would go.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

I have a built in pH meter in my tank. As the pH drops the krib is getting more coloured up, she's a deep purple now and she's nipping at the barbs and SAE a bit. This seems to be her mating display, she does it every time I adjust the pH.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Hmm,

I dont know about the yeast you have. Does it say what is in the 'stabelizer'? because I assume the activator is yeast and I am skeptical that the stabelizer is magical. Might be baking soda. The yeast i used was almost 3 years old from one of those packets you get at the grocrey store. It sounds like the yeast didnt begin immideatly but they will get going. the blanket is probably a good idea but I dont think anything else will help this batch.

As for shutting off the co2 for a WC I dont think you will loose much and besides why risk building up too much preasure? doing a water change is going to bring your CO2 down drasticly as it is so I wouldnt worry.

Sounds like a fun pH meter, for everyone but the sae. Mabey she will relax about the pH because it will cycle a bit daily with the CO2. You might be intersted, I am taking a class on atmospheric chemistry and I read that CO2 can change by very large ammounts even in an open system like a forest just because of photosynthesis. The co2 can drop by 25% in the middle of every day and then get restored to max during the night. I was impressed by the level of carbon use there. I know its random but intersting i think.

Chaos

__________________________________
- - - Humorous Bit of Wisdom - - -

I love random bits of knowledge like that, and it may be useful to someone somewhere.

Hopefully this thing happening with the krib will slow down as she ages and as she adjusts to the pH in the tank, the barbs are just not interested, it would be great if I was planning on breeding her though, instant priming through CO2.

The bubbles are traveling a bit more smothly and a little quicker, not optimal yet but it is picking up, I think up to 1 bubble/3 seconds now instead of five, and they are staying on the ladder very well, not stuck as badly either. I was thinking gas exchange would be more thourough the longer the bubble is in the water so it may be a good thing.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Chaos,
The 'activator' IS baking soda, my earlier post in here states that.

Luvmykrib,
Glad you like my siggie. Pass the wasabe ? Keep up the great work with the tank ! I have been wanting a 96w coralife light for quite awhile now but considering I went almost ALL crypt species I'm debating if it's even necessary to upgrade. It sure would look alot nicer then my 2 strip lights though

The Amazon Nut...

Thanks, damoss

I didnt read that far back. But I had a feeling that the packets you buy from the store arnt 'magical' and wanted to check

Chaos

__________________________________
- - - Humorous Bit of Wisdom - - -

Oops, you mean the 'activator' is yeast and the 'stabilizer' is baking soda right. Yeast came out of the activator pouch and the other which I haven't opened is baking soda. Very non-magical ingredients found in nearly every kitchen, even mine and I don't bake!

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

I got the 65 watt coralife, I need to get the bigger one, the store called while I was out so I may be able to get it today, I stll need the glass top and a rim, but I have a couple of ideas for that. I'm going shopping and it's a great day for it, -19 C out there! Yesterday was -21 C at it's warmest so I stayed home as much as possible.

The 25 is showing the early signs of ich. It has coressponded with the addition of the CO2 but I'm sure it's just a coincidence. Only two fish have one spot each, I'm slowly raising the temp to 80 F then I will treat the tank, if two fish have it I'm dosing the whole tank to be sure it's gone. Wish me luck, I don't want to kill off all the plants.

The bubbles are moving quicker this morning, last night I think I was wrong, it was more like 1 b/20 sec, now I'm closer to 1/3 and they seem to be moving gradually faster.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

luvmykrib,

Get the legs for the fixture, you will need them

That is if you don't have them already,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Will do Ingo! I don't think I got them with the smaller fixture but I will be sure to get them when I get the bigger one.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

I've got 65 watts on my 25 gallon tank.

While I was at the store exchanging the 24" fixture for the 30" fixture (and the feet), I picked up the 36" sliding glass top from Hagen and was able to get a bottom rim from another tank for my glass support. It may not look great but it works. I will take pictures to post, cutting the glass was fun I can tell you, I recommend practicing on a different piece of glass before doing the real thing. We wound up making a space for the heater inadvertantly, I may eventually replace that piece of glass.

The fish were blinking like they needed sunglasses after I turned on the light, it's very bright in the tank and now the ugly red gravel is even more obvious. Any suggestions for new plants/placement will be appreciated.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

luvmykrib,



Sounds awesome, can't wait to see the picture

So you cut the glass yourself? Wow, I am impressed as I am way to chicken to ever try that. Please describe the process more detailed.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Second try, I timed out the first time, so I'll keep this one short.

I exchanged the light I had gotten for the bigger one Ingo said to get, got the feet and a 36" sliding glass top as well. I asked about using a bottom rim from the tank as a top rim and trimming the vertical supports to hold the track. I was told this was an option and I was lucky enough that someone at the store was able to call Hagen and ask about this. They sold me a bottom rim off one of their tanks and Hagen is sending them a replacement piece. Yay!

To start I did the trimming of all the support pieces, they do not allow the track to sit on the rim when present. This actually was more time-consuming than anything and I was rather pleased with how it turned out. Next I had to trim the end pieces of the glass track, this was also easy to accomplish with a hacksaw. Leave the center piece intact until you are ready to place it in, as the tank bulges slightly with water in it, you need to fit it fairly exactly, mine fits nice and snug, it will not be falling in on the fishies.

Glass cutting is an art and I am no artist. Practice on a piece of glass you do not need before attempting this. It is not as easy as they show on TV! Our attempt is jagged and will work but as I said, I may still replace the two pieces we cut. Good thing there is a glass shop nearby!

Once I had the glass top in place and all the parts working it was time to start everything back up and fit the light on the tank. Why didn't you warn me about the legs Ingo?! We did the male thing and read the instructions after we had decided it wouldn't work, strange as it was myself and a girl friend doing this. Finally we got that figured out and placed on the tank. The legs fit between the rim and the track so they are secure and snug. All in all it took about two hours to do everything. Pics tonight of how it all looks.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Why didn't you warn me about the legs Ingo?! We did the male thing and read the instructions after we had decided it wouldn't work

How could I know that you would act like me ?

Well, glad all is in place. Just one question: you say the legs fit between something. Why didn't you place them so they sit over the end of the new top rim? Not possible?

Oh, and somehting else: is it possible to use sandpaper on the glass where you cut it? I would imagine it is really sharp there.

Can't wait for the pictures, add a close-up of the new top parts as well,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

The new rim doesn't have anything for the legs to hold onto, it is slightly rounded, with it fit in between the track and the edge it seems to be very secure, I'll get a close-up of it so you see what I mean.

This is probably the only time I haven't read the instructions before trying to put something together! That's generally my Hubby's trick and then I get to fix things or make them work, luckily it was my friend who read the little diagram on the cardboard on the bag and figured it out, the paper from inside wasn't clear enough. Or else we were still shocky from cutting the glass.

I am actually too nervous to try anything with the glass, a router/grouter(circular grinding tool, so technical I know) is supposed to be able to grind the edges smooth but I don't want to have anything to do with it. I will replace it as soon as possible and fit the plastic piece onto the back glass.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

I am trying something new with the pictures here, so I hope this works. I haven't figured out how to link words on the page to the site my pics are at, maybe someone could explain then I could do that next time.

http://w25.photobucket.com/widgets/dynamicflash.php?featuretype=bucketstamp&featurename=NewTankSet-up&pa=/c56/luvmypetz/

This is the new hardware and the whole tank the way it looks now.



"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

And this is the before and after of the tank lighting from the inside.

http://w25.photobucket.com/widgets/dynamicflash.php?featuretype=bucketstamp&featurename=Beforeandafter&pa=/c56/luvmypetz/

Very interesting, you can see the whole album from these pictures, neat! Now I know not to post naughty pictures here!

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus