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Im thinking of converting my 5 gal into an invert tank and (knock wood) being able to move the current residents into a bigger tank. Im think of taking the plunge and planting the 5 gal so that the bottom is covered(Im thinking hairgraas). I found a 20 watt flourescent, but i wonder if 4wpg would be too much for inverts or anything for that matter.



I'll do graffiti,
If you sing to me in French.

Katie,
No 4wpg is about what you need to successfully grow a carpet of hairgrass.
Any inverts or fish will not noticed the light anyway, and shy fish can always be made happy with a floating plant or two

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Would these plants do well under 4 wpg?

Red Ludwigia
Red Temple
Melon/ Red Amazon Sword Plant
Dwarf Sagitaria
Dwarf Hair Grass
Glossostigma

What is the best substrate?
Also, what is the best plant for carpeting the bottom, Hairgrass, dwarg sag, or glosso?

I'll do graffiti,
If you sing to me in French.

Katie,

ANY plant will grow under 4 wpg. So that's the good news.

Here's the bad news. The Ludwigia, Sword, and Red Temple are/will get way too big for a 5 gal especially under that light. The Ludwigia has relatively small leaves so you may get away with it if you keep it well trimmed.The red temple has very big leaves so even with trimming it will look wrong in such a small tank. The sword is just too big full stop and will literally burst out of the tank. Try smaller species like Hemianthus,Bacopa Australis or even Rotala.

For the forground the Glosso would be the best choice size wise but can be a bit tricky to grow without good nutrition especially Co2. For ease the dwarf sag or hairgrass would be better.

Special substrates can be a little rich for small tank. Better to a mix of, say flourite, on the bottom and capped with a decent layer of gravel to keep the nutrients out of the water column (small tanks have their own unique difficulties).

Question about the lighting. A 5 gal tank is usually about a foot long, a normal 20 watt flourescent is normally about 2 feet long, I think. What kind of bulb are we talking about here ? You have to remember if the light is not going into the tank it doesn't matter how many watts you have , the light is wasted if it's spilling out.



Last edited by bensaf at 06-May-2005 22:16

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

My guess would be, but not entirely 100 sure of this, that she has found a fixture and a 20 watt spiral flourescent bulb. I agree that a pure flourite base would be too rich and would cause serious issues with algae, which may already be a problem with such high lighting, at least in the beginning until the plants take hold and out compete it.
You may want to consider the possiblity of adding an otto or two once the algae appears.
Eco-complete is a good base, again could be used in a thin layer under a thicker cap layer of gravel.
Another option you could use, which I recently read in an aquarium magazine, is peat granules. Spread these about 1/2 inch thick in the bottom, and then spread regular gravel on top. If you want soft water fish, this will work wonders, as well as provide excellent nutrition for the plants.
Bacopa might work, if trimmed regularly it gets nice and bushy, and under high light the leaves turn a beautiful purply bronze color.
Anubias would be a good bet for a small tank- perhaps a nice small variety like Nana or Petite, and then a medium size one for background, I think coffeefolia grows only 6 inches tall or so, and 1 would provide a beautiful dark leaved background, with the brighter greens in front, with hairgrass or gloss in the foreground.
Katie, you will have to post pics as you go if you can, as I am also considering doing this with my 5g tank. Something about a 5g planted just seems so wonderful. I guess it is the shape of a 5g tank that does it.


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I should have added that its a 5 gal hex and Ill be using a compact 20 watt flourescent.

The reason i want to upgrade is mainly because i have an oto that i really like, but he doesnt have a shoal and i dont think the bio-load could hold friends. Though, the bigger tank is looking rather iffy now(no where to put it.

Right now it has

1 Apple Snail (P. Brigdessi)
1 oto
2 Guppies (male)


BTW, thanks for the help Ive seen pics of both your tanks and they're quite good; I hope mine turns out just as nice.

Heres a pic of it now


Last edited by katieb at 06-May-2005 23:09

I'll do graffiti,
If you sing to me in French.

That pic helps me visualize more. With a tank like that, I'd stick to only foreground and maybe midground plants. As something like Red Temple is absolutely gorgeous and loves high light, it alone would take up most of that tank. Try some of these on for size...

Vals- grow high and thin, can be placed at the back of the tank
Crypts- tend to like lower to medium light, but do fine in high light, smaller versions like Parva can be in the front, Wendtii at full height would be more of a midground plant.
Dwarf Sag or Dwarf Hairgrass would be a great foreground plant in that tank
Riccia- more of a ground cover..... LOVES high light
Anubias- small rhyzome plant, would look great in the back of your tank.

I'd just shy away from anything that gets too bushy, unless it's a smaller plant that you're using as a centerpiece. Go to http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php to see more plants that wouldn't take up the whole tank.

As for the larger tank.... get creative! I've got quite a small apartment, and have found interesting places to put tanks. On top of a dresser, end table, filing cabinet... just make sure the weight can be supported.

Good luck!

Last edited by harleysiber at 07-May-2005 12:10

This is getting to be very exciting

www.thezengardens.com
www.aquaticplantdepot.com
www.aquariumplants.com
www.azgardens.com

These are the sites ive been browsing. Has anyone had any experience with them? If so, do they have good shipping policies? Are there any other sites I should check?

Also, is a heavily planted tank hard to vac? Would MTS be appropriate for a gravel/florite substrate?

Last edited by katieb at 07-May-2005 12:20

I'll do graffiti,
If you sing to me in French.

Hi,
When I purchase plants, I always use Arizona Gardens
(azgardens.com). For someone who is new to plants, and
planted tanks, I would suggest that you go to their website
and read the part for first time patrons. Then, on a slow
day (a day that they are not filling orders and rushing to
make the shipper) give them a phone call.

Before you call, you need to know the following:
WPG, type of light and degrees Kelvin (be sure to use
flourscent bulbs, preferably in the 6700K range. These
are commonly labeled DAYLIGHT or SUNLIGHT, tank capacity,
substrate, GH, KH, and a general idea of the "look"
that you want to have when the tank is done.

They will be glad to chat with you and offer suggestions.
You will be amazed at how much you can learn from these
friendly folks.

MTS with any substrate is great. They help keep the gravel
loose and "aired out."
As for vacuuming in a heavily planted tank... You can't.
The durned plants get in the way! What you do is
swirl your hand over the tops of the plants while syphoning
the tank and suck up any detritus that comes up into the
water. If you vaccum the gravel in a well planted tank, you
remove much of the organics and nutrients that the
plants are beaking down into food. Additionally you run the
risk of damaging their roots.

Frank


Last edited by FRANK at 07-May-2005 15:00

Last edited by FRANK at 07-May-2005 15:00

-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Frank, i'll deffinately keep them in mind. However im not sure how im going to make the 35$ minimum. The tank is small so im not buying too much

I am quite interested in aquaticplantdepot.com. The shipping is good and they seem to have a nice selection.

Also, what would you say is the maximum wpg? I can get it up to 5wpg, but it seems excessive for such a small tank.

Last edited by katieb at 09-May-2005 15:06

I'll do graffiti,
If you sing to me in French.

The only problem I have with azgardens is they just kill in shipping. Most other sites have only charged me around $20-$30 shipping but azgardens can easily reach $50 or more. The last order had a few shrimp so they sent it out overnight and it cost me $77. Their prices are low and their plants in great shape but the shipping and boxing charges make up for it. I like ordering from them but from now on only if I can't find something elsewhere or I'm worried about the quality. Definitely call in your order and ask the final shipping cost first.
I'm thinking of ordering from aquariumplants.com this time. Also I've been looking at liveaquaria.com and while they only have a few basic plants they have some of what I want and some fish I can't get here. Their plant shipping is set at $12-$16 depending what service you want and I didn't see a minimum.

Try www.aquaticplantdepot.com, they have a flat $10 shipping/handling fee, and a 5% first time discount. Their prices are very reasonable, and I'm happy with the shipment I just got.

Also, try this thread where I got a lot of feedback on online stores... http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/forums/Planted%20Aquaria/58296.html

Last edited by harleysiber at 09-May-2005 05:25

Well, I think Ive settled on aquatic plant depot. I sorta have an idea of what i want, but im not sure. I also want to make sure i buy enough, but not too much.

4 Wpg
Hard water (Not sure how hard)
5 Gal Hex

Corkscrew Val
Anubias Nana
Anubias barteri v. "Coffeefolia"
Dwarf Aquarium Lily (probably just 1 or 2)
Sword, Narrow Leaf Chain or hairgrass
Baby Tears
Bacopa
MTS

Now i just have to figure out which ones i really want and how many

How many MTSs should i order?


This is a summer project so im still planning it.


ETA: I just saw the Hanging garden in Aquascape (I think it was Manburg..), it piqued my interest to say the least. Whats a good viney plant, for future reference?:%)




Last edited by katieb at 09-May-2005 18:42

I'll do graffiti,
If you sing to me in French.

Hi Katie,
Dwarf Aquarium Lily is a Lotus variety, and is not really "dwarf". I have one in my 25g, that is large enough to fill a regular 5g tank, let alone a hex. I believe the dwarf lilys grow to about 14 inches across and then around 16 inches high or so. Thats where I keep mine pruned to anyway, around 16 inches high.
You could keep it trimmed down, but that much trimming may kill the plant.
Bacopa can be quite viney, so if you wanted a hanging garden, you could always hang it upside down, and when it starts to grow up, just trim it where the plant bends.
I like your plant choices, and I think even hairgrass will do well, or you could even use glosso or riccia.
Corkscrew val stays a bit smaller than spiral val, so probably good to get a couple spiral and a few more corkscrew for base.


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