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Left side...

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Right side...

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Center...

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A close up of the garden in the middle...

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Some of the leftover alternatheras...

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This plant has gone from having very small greener leaves and laying a low profile to sprouting upwards larger more colorful leaves.

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The swords finally are showing larger nicer leaves...

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The ambulia being the dominating species in the tank...

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And they want to make sure it stays that way by spreading runners...

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And to prove that these plants were really in the tank heres a nice pic of them...I moved them forward so they nourish back to health

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Red , Great to see you back again .
Great shots of the tank and the plants .
Love what you've done to the scape .
Interesting to see your Ludwigia Ovalis is growing and colouring up , mine appears to be doing the same.
I have Ambulia in my 60 and it grows like yours , Its a great plant .
I want to learn how to use it better with other plants .
At the moment every time I put something near it it shades the other plant out .

My understanding is that Melafix & Primafix should not have any effect on your plants .
I've used both in my 60g several times .

Hope the fish are recovering well .

Garry

RP, i love this tank, gives me alot of ideas on what to do with my next tank im planning for. Also Garry, try moving your nanas next to the Ambulia, i have had my nanas in shade and they have grown just fine.

Just an idea. RP keep it goin man.

Thanks for your input as always, Shane
http://thetanklog.blogspot.com/ - [ Thanks to ScottF ]
http://www.natureaquariumclubofutah.com/main.html

Thanks Garry and fishmonster, its great to be back...sorta, anyway. I've been on the verge of stripping the tank and starting from scratch in an attempt to rid of the diseases in it.

For now, treating the fish in situ and with some results, luckily, if they pull through ok on this last treatment, then I will hold off the dismanteling of it, if they dont show recovery and gain stability the tank will be stripped to the bone and plants will undergo a rigourous quarantine themselves, fish moved to hospital tanks and main tank disinfected.

Thus the reason for the restructuring I did on the 50 gallon, in an attempt to make it as sterile and clean as possible. Removed almost all the shadey giant vals and java moss, leaving only some moss on the left hand back corner growing very thinly on the V shaped vertical log. Also accomodatting some of the plants properly, like the alternatheras, so that they receive more light in order to avoid die offs that would add to the organic waste levels.

Hopefully this will help water circulation to be uniform around the tank, allowing meds to reach every spot and diminishing stagnant areas that may promote disease growth.

Concerning the plants, I've had a great growth sprout on just about everything but the alternatheras, which are now, slowly but surely picking up a bit and seem to like their new location as do the echinodorus that have doubled in size and girth in the last two weeks.

The anubia growing amidst the ambulia has also done nicely and I had to cut a secondary side growth wich I lodged in the vortex of the V shaped log on the left side of the tank. As fishmonster mentioned, this anubia grows well alongside the ambulia, it seems to thrive when competing for light. Other plants I've tried like cabomba never do seem to take off around ambulia, it gets overpowered.

I have swords right aside and below the ambulia which in turn are doing ok on the leaves but the stalk seems to remain short.

The ambulia on the other hand, I've ran out of places where to plant this and trimmings will soon have to go outside of the tank into quarantine to be used elsewhere.

The ludwiga is the one that has surprised me on the turn around, leaves larger, rounder, pinkish color underneath with a yellowish green atop, very waxy feel and look to them as well.

The java fern whereas has not picked up and even though it has rooted solidly to the log and has spread new leaves, these appear to be somewhat transluscent, not its fullest green. Larger leaves on the fern seem to be sprouting new leaves at the tip as means of spreading I suppose. It may be that it is using up too much energy on spreading itself since the main leaves start to turn black as seemingly dieing out.

Ferting schedule has been non-existant since I havent added any fertilizers in the past month or so.

I'm glad you guys liked the tank, I tried implementing suggestions posted on the thread as moving the wood further back and trying to blend it in with the scape. Reducing the amount of red plants somewhat, etc... All great advice that has made the tank what it is today. Still a lot of work to do but its always a work in progress with plants and fish.

Thanks again for your comments and positive vibrations,

James

Red , whats happening , I heard in Chat you were on Hols. Are you back yet ? Time for an update ......


Garry

Hi Garry,

Back from vacation as of yesterday. Spent some time tending to my tanks and doing this, that and the other thing around the house.

The fish are ok in the most part, I lost a rineloricaria from my clean up crew, but otherwise fish are standing and will be undergoing further treatment.

Plants are doing quite well, lots of growth and nice coloration, although I have kept the plants trimmed quite low in order to promote good circulation for meds and UV filter to reach most corners of them.

Ill try to get some pics.

Have a good one,

James

James , hope you had a great Holiday

Glad to here the tanks are ok . Hope your problems with disease abate soon .
Love to see some shots of the tank and residents .

Garry

Waiting for the new pics red.

I've been watching the progression of your tank. What an adventure you're having with it! But your plants sure are looking great. I'm anxious to see the end result of it all, plus the end of your disease. I wish you much luck with that!

As promised here are the most recent pics of the tank and some of its inhabitants.

First off it seems that the war against disease is being won over. It is not over but many battles have been won and some lost.

A moment of silence for one of my rineloricarias who died emaciated about two or three weeks ago. He was receiving some grief from the other riney and the harrassement had calmed down, or at least I thought it had.

Two possibilities explain his decease: Territorialism and food availability. The first would be explained as the surviving riney not allowing the other to feed, seems now that they were both males and the stronger one prevailed. This is supported by the fact that the standing riney had a growth and girth sprout once it was alone, developing a fuller and longer body and development of male type odontodes on its back.

The second possibility is supported by the opinion of Longhairedgit, who mentioned that the UV filter that I've been running for the last 2 months or so may have depleted the microfauna they feed on, driving the riney to starvation or malnourishment. Would seem logical since they had lived together for quite long and now that the UV is in place there were consequences.

It could also be a combination of the two, or perhaps more factors were involved since things are almost never that black and white.

On the other hand the rest of the fish seem to be doing much better, still have some infection on some of their eyes but even the cardinal tetra that was really looking bad is still around swimming lively.

On with the struggle to pull them through, slowly but surely.

Concerning the plants and the tank itself. I left the plants go wild a bit and the end result was an overgrown jungle, it was beautiful and the fish were loving all the vegetative cover. It triggered their courting behaviour and some were even spawning like the marble hatchets or carrying eggs, like the amano shrimp.

So I took out my prunning scissors and went at it, mostly trimmed of the ambulia that had taken over the tank for the most part and did off with some dead or decaying leaves on the anubias, java fern and/or swords.

I took out 125 clippings of ambulia, average one foot in length from the tank. 45 clippings from the left side and 80 from the right side of the tank. Yes you read that right! Thats 125 foot long stems of ambulia from a 50 gallon tank...

My Java Fern has not picked up since I planted it, its older leaves turned a dark brown and sprout what seems to be newer plants attached to the tip of the leaf. There is some growth on new leaves but they loose color and turn translucid. Iron defficiency perhaps?

The swords and echinodorus are still not thriving, they have been somewhat shadowed by the ambulia.

On with the pictures so you can all see what Im blabbering about:



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The BEFORE Picture

I trimmed most of the ambulia down and left the middle ludwiga sp. standing tall in order to leave some cover for the fish.

It sort of looks like a slash and burn technique was used on a patch of forest.

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The AFTER Picture

very nice Red, you certainly did give a haircut!

---

I used to be Snow White, but I drifted.
~ Mae West

Shot of the right hand side of the jungle overgrowth, some 80+ stems in there.

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Right hand side after slash and burn...

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Right Side After

The center of the tank while overgrown...

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Center Before

Center shot after trim...

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Center After

Another shot from the right side of the tank...

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A close up of the right hand side after the trim. The ambulia almost created a blanket with its stolons. Heres a close up of it...

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Ambulia Ground Cover

Heres a shot of the shadow from the canopy the plants created on the surface of the tank...

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This is the ludwiga sp. after the jungle was cleared. These are now the most significant plants at the moment, in number and length.

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Ludwiga (repens?)

The alternatheras that have been with me since the beggining are now looking a bit better after almost losing them. I managed to recuperate them a bit by clipping the excess stem and replanting the tops. They seem to be doing ok now.

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Alternathera sp.

Some of the inhabitants... A cardinal tetra

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Cardinal Tetra

A Neon Tetra...

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Neon Tetra

Marble Hatchet... It still seems to have a bit of infection of aeromonas on the tail fin. Just recently sprouted and melafix is doing its job presently.

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Rineloricaria sp. This is the remaining riney that has developed odontodes on its back, barely noticeable on this pic.



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This next inhabitant needs no introduction...so without further ado, the star of the show!

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Mr. Hoplos

Hope you all enjoyed the pics. Thanks again for all the input provided along the way.

Much love,

James

Hi,
The next time you attack the plants, save the tops and
replace the rooted base with the new tops. Over time
the bases will turn a very dark green and become very
"woody" not producing the normal vibrant growth that
you used to have.

After removing that large a quantity of fast growing stem
plants, watch your water chemistries and for a possible
outbreak of algae. You removed a huge "sump" that was
absorbing nutrients out of the water.
If you have been adding fertilizers, be sure to reduce the
quantity, as the plants that needed them are not there now.

Frank

-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

James , Wow you really did take the sword to the Ambulia . I have to back up Frank .
I had the exact problem with my Ambulia going all woody at the bottom and useless
for getting new growth. In the end I took it all out after it got infected with a
particularly slimy algae . My own fault I should have got rid of the bottoms earlier
and used only the healty growing tops.

Glad to hear your disease probs are starting to abate , sorry about the riney though .
Nature is ruthless sometimes

Tank looks great , if a little bare after the forest fire . .


Garry

Oh no Red!
I don't understand? You had such a lush forest. I can see where it needed thinning out, but why did you cut almost all of it out? Why didn't you leave some tall strands? I know I'm new to planted aquaria & don't understand a lot of the reasoning behind things. In the long run, I know it'll be ok, as that stuff grows fast.......like having a bad hair cut. I'm just curious as to why you went to such an extreme?

Sorry for the loss of your fishie. I know you've had more than your share. You seem confidant that your tank is coming under control now, so I really hope it all keeps improving for you.

Thanks for the pics........now I REALLY can't wait for the next ones, where everything is grown in again.

Hi Frank and Garry,

Thanks for the tips. The tops were saved from the ambulia, all 125 of them, and the bottoms I left in the tank thinking that they will sprout new growth with all the strength of a well rooted plant. Seems my rationale was backwards though hehe, typical me.

My intention though was to rid the tank of older plants that had more algae on them which may be collecting or harboring bacterial or fungal organisms. In an effort to promote good circulation and hopefully provide for a healthier environment.

The fish loved the jungle as did I, cant argue with that. But I truly thought that by trimming (or hacking away in this case) the plants at the bottom, I would promote fuller growth from the bottom up. Ill follow your suggestions for the next trim.

Ill keep a close eye on the parameters as well, thanks for that heads up. About the algae well, we can make a little room for it but the UV has been keeping that growth at a good level.

Fertilizers, well I havent used any for about two months or more, but after the trim I added a half dose of Nutrafin Plant Grow and a quarter dose of Tetra Flora Pride in an effort to boost growth on the newly trimmed ambulia. This was done after a 50% WC took place.



Patty and Doe,

A haircut huh? I think I may need one myself, starting to look like a hippie. But a bad hair cut patty? I had plenty of those, Im probably just laying of some of the frustration from past events, lol.

Lush forest it was but was not having enough circulation and at this point I need clean water everywhere and no stagnant areas whatsoever in order to help out the fish in their demise. Plus it was getting a little ridiculous to the point that I only had a window in the middle of the tank to watch the fish, sometimes farlowella would go unnoticed for days at a time. Im sure the fish loved the break from seeing my face every day though.

Extreme, well Patty that is just me, going from one end of the scope to the other, always black and white. I do like the grey areas though, but they seem a little hazy sometimes. So clear cut or lush jungle and in between the balance, which the tank will reach by itself in its own process and I will be there to enjoy it.


Thank you all for your sentiments towards riney, it was a hard blow. He was a great fish and will always be remembered.

I will keep you all posted on how the ambulia grows out during these next week or two. If estimates are correct I'll have plants reaching the surface in two weeks.

All the best and thanks for the great input and feedback,

James

Hi everyone,

Its been a long time since my last update.

Ill begin by saying how right you all were for recommending I replanted the tops of the ambulia instead of maintaining the lower, older growth.

After this time elapsed the ambulia never really took off and stayed small, not going past the halfway point of the tank in most cases.

So lesson learnt, I did another trim to the tank, this time I uprooted the old system of limnophila and replanted the tops on the left side of the tank and kept a smaller lower growth of the old ambulia on the right hand side.

Nontheless, I took out most of the patch on the right side of the tank and replaced the corner area with clippings from the ludwiga.

The anubias seem to be doing nicely on the wood and gravel on the left hand of the tank.

While the Echinodorus was almost lost due to shading from the ambulia. They were replanted and two small plantules remain of these species.

The Swords still wont thrive but the leaves growing out are nice and lush.

The Java Fern does not seem to want to settle in, and most leaves are turning dark all over. I wonder what defficiency can cause this on java ferns?

The alternatheras suffered from lack of light,melting in lower leaves and prescense of small holes on leaf surface. This partly due to the ludwiga shading over them but also I think the juice in the bulbs had worn out.

Thus the bulbs were replaced with 3 newer Sylvania Oktron FO30T8's of 30 Watts each.

Here is the result of the new trim:

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Right Hand side...Notice the new section of ludwiga in the right back corner.

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Left side of tank...

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Heres the star of the show...

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His friend the rineloricaria...

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And some local fauna...

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Red, those plants are looking great! Those Ambulia are looking so lush & full after you planted the tops of them! I do see the holes in the Alternatheras. I hope they recover for you, as I know you like them.

Your tank changes so much. I'll be glad when it finally gets settled to where you are happy with it.
I'm also happy to see Mr. Haplos is hanging in there for you. I know you're especially attached to him.

Well, I'll await more pics later & see how your tank has changed again I wish you the best of luck with it.

James , Nice job , should grow in very well for you .
Garry

James

I am glad the ambulia is doing better. I do agree that replanting the tops has made a difference in the look of the tank. Good job

Shane

Thanks for your input as always, Shane
http://thetanklog.blogspot.com/ - [ Thanks to ScottF ]
http://www.natureaquariumclubofutah.com/main.html

Hello Good Friends,

Thanks for your nice comments on the tank, always greatly appreciated.

Heres another photo session of the tank and its inhabitants. Yes Patty, more changes happened, but only minute ones...hehe

I changed the hardscape a bit and brought forth a piece of wood that was hiding in one of the corners behind another piece of DW. Thanks to Patty, who pointed it out and made the suggestion. I think it looks a lot better, what do you all think?

Also cleared out the frontal left corner of ambulia and transplanted them to the left back corner. Its a bit of a shaded area but hopefully the ambulias will take to the shade.

This allowed the plants in the left corner to be appreciated and now we can see the swords and the nicely growing anubias.

The ludwiga tops are sprouting new leaves after recovering from clipping and replanting, hopefully they will stretch upwards and start covering the corner and hind walls of the tank.

The echinodorus has also shown some improvement after clearing out some of the shade from atop of them.

I uprooted the alternatheras and replanted them by burrowing the naked stalks deeper into the gravel and leaving only the tops showing from the substrate. New leaves coming out nicely, a bit shriveled up but nice looking in color and thickness.

I got a new plant from my friend El Tiburon Tailandes, many thanks go out to you Tib. The thing is, I really dont know what type of plant it is since its very little and only recently has been showing normal growth patterns. We will call this plant X and if anyone has an idea of what type of plant it is please let us know.

Ive been ferting with both Tetra Flora pride and Nutrafin Plant Gro for the last 3 weeks, hoping that this will help my pityful java fern, the leaves turn black and start to seem like they die. Any ideas on what may be causing this behaviour?

Hope you all enjoy the pics.

Thanks again,

James



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Left side...

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Center...

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Right side...

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Anubias...

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Swords...

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Echinodorus...

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Java Fern...

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A beautiful clump of algae...

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Alternathera line...

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This is plant X, first a full shot...

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Plant X close up...

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