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Hi:

A few types of turtle need very shallow water as hatchlings (an inch deep). Most don't, but there are a few (spotted turtles and some 3-striped muds). Filtering a 20 gallon long tank with an inch of water can be a logistical challenge, since even a Duetto DJ-100 could use deeper water. I once heard of a filter called an Ovation that might work but haven't seen one in action.

Now, one method I've known to keep nitrates down is to use Java moss or Anacharis (which, surprisingly enough, can do okay laying on its side) with a small water pump to circulate water (and some can handle an inch or two of water).

Historically we expect filters to break ammonia to nitrite to nitrate, and the live plants to remove the nitrate.

So, my question is, can these live plants draw nitrogenous wastes out of the water without the benefit of a commercial power filter of some sort performing this conversion?

Thank you in advance.

Richard.

Richard,

I have to say that your situation is something I haven't seen here at FP before, very interesting.

I think the short answer is: No

Albeit complete eco systems can be formed in tanks without the use of filters and such by just using loads of plants, your specific case does not qualify for it, IMHO.

The best way to remove Nitrates is by doing water changes. Are you planning on doing any, or was the intention to try to have the plants suck it all up? Plants need more than just nitrates to grow and your turtles may provide phosphates as well, but what about potassium and all the micros? Plus, all entities are provided in uncontrollable measures, and that with maybe 1 to 2 gallons of water (1 inch filled tank). In my eyes, a very unstable system to begin with.

I would say you are much better off by doing 3 weekly water changes of 50% each than trying to manage plants to do the job for you.

Hope this helps at least a little,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

While you will still need to have a filtration system in place to maintain the proper functioning of the nitrogen cycle (i.e., the conversion steps being Ammonia -> Nitrite -> Nitrate) there are plants that will ease your nitrogen cycle management in your unusual setup: the one that springs to mind immediately is Hornwort, Ceratophyllum demersum, which is a floating plant in its natural state, and absorbs nitrates directly through its entire tissue mass. It's a VERY efficient nitrate hoover, which is why I use it in the Panda Fun Palace to help keep nitrate levels down to around 10 ppm.

It's also an EXCELLENT plant to use in fry rearing aquaria, not only because it absorbs nitrates at a prodigious rate, but because its structure (whorls of fine leaflets) provides excellent shelter for the baby fishes.

In your unusual setup, Hornwort could prove to be VERY useful indeed.

As for filtration, one possible method you could use to keep your nitrogen cycle ticking over is to have your shallow aquarium connected to a 5 gallon aquarium of conventional dimensions, in which you run a standard biological filter setup. Alternatively, you could set up the 5 gallon aquarium to be, in effect, a freshwater version of the trickle filters that were popular in marine aquaria prior to Mike Paletta's advocacy of the live rock system. The advantage of setting up the 5 gallon as a trickle filter is that the filter media will be exposed to atmospheric oxygen, and the bacteria will take their oxygen from the air instead of the water, thus making other management issues in your unusual setup considerably easier. This page]http://www.firsttankguide.net/trickle.php[/link] explains the basics, and [link=this page contains some basic plans for a DIY trickle filter that should cost you less to set up than a commercial model.

All you need for a trickle filter is a container to hold the biological media, some means of getting the water to the filter and distributing it over the surface (something like a watering can rose, or a spray bar with lots of holes in it arranged in a spiral over the top), some suitable medium for the bacteria to live on, and a means of returning the filtered water to the destination aquarium. If the trickle filter is positioned below the level of the destination aquarium, a siphon tube will be sufficient to feed it - then you only need a single powerhead to rturn the filtered water. You'll have to find some means of regulating the water flow in each case so that the incoming flow rate equals the outgoing flow rate back to the aquarium, but that shouldn't be beyond your capabilities if you're able to build your own DIY model!

Oops, almost forgot (edit). You could plonk lots of Hornwort in the sump below the main trickle filter unit, keep that illuminated 24/7, and use that to manage your nitrate levels. Make sure you choose your lighting carefully though if you do this - use a fluorescent tube rated for freshwater aquarium use (colour temperature 6,500 Kelvins), because if you use a tube with too high a colour temperature, you'll end up with a blanket weed plague in the sump. I made the mistake of illuminating a freshwater aquarium witn a tube rated at 18,000 K, and ended up with a blanket weed problem - once I switched to a 6,500 K tube in that aquarium, the higher plants out-competed the blanket weed and it's now almost gone.


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

Since the tank residents and their food should result in a fairly high level of nitrogenous wastes that require water changes, you may want to make your water changes a little easier. Why not add water to the tank until the depth is 5 or 6 inches then siphon the water level back down to your desired depth? You would essentially be be doing an 80% water change after all is said and done with the expectation that nitrates would fall 80%.





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