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<sigh> Welcome to the world of BGA. I feel your pain, as do many others. There's no simple explanation to fighting off BGA. Check out what plant brain and others have to say in [link= this thread]http:// www.fishprofiles.com/files/forums/Planted%20Aquaria/50886.html[/link]

I'm sure others will be along with their advice and opinions on clearing it up, and the use of anti-biotics to do the trick. Personally, I'm not a fan of it. I had two bad BGA outbreaks, and i beat them both by using a 4 day complete blackout (blankets over the tank and everything), thourough clean-up and then proper dosing with KN03 and traces. Only time will tell one's ultimate success with these methods, but I've been fine for a while, though I'm seeing it creep into the corners of my tank below the substrate lately.

Just remember, we'll be here for you.

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Back in the saddle!

Are you all using the calculator online or have you downloaded the calulator to your computer ?

The downloadable one is better been upgraded and has the option to calculate dry or as a solution. It's very handy as it also has a built in Co2 calculator and KH/pH table. Good idea to download it and keep it on your desktop makes it very quick and easy to do calculations - or like me you can just play with for hours

Maybe i gave the wrong link last time try this one http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_aquacalc.htm and follow instructions to download

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

KH2PO4 is actually Mono Postassium Phosphate. MgS04+7H20 is Magnesium Sulfate (epsom salt). I noticed that too, because I had epsom salt at home. I said it was Magnesium Chloride. I guess we all make mistakes.



I got the stump remover from Lowe's, Greenlight Brand. Thanks for the tip, Babelfish! It didn't list the ingredients, so I checked out the MSDS on their website, and it's a-okay, only KNO3.

Oh, and another way to use the calculator to give you "dry" amounts, is to put 1 ml into the water box. That way, for each ml added, it's the total dry ferts in the top. If that makes sense...

Wait! hold up! not to go OT, but KH2PO4 is not epsom salts . Epsom salts are magnesium sulfae MgSO4.

So what is KH2PO4 Potassium hydrogen and phosphate

^_^



[hr width='40%']"Somewhere beyond happiness and sadness
I need to calculate,what creates my own madness...
and I am waiting for disaster"

OK, I think I figured out how to calculate the dry ferts using the calculator!

My tank is 100 gallons so if I set the amount of water to mix with as 10 ml, and type in .5 tsp potassium nitrate, each ml solution gives me 0.45 ppm Nitrate so using all of the solution (or adding the chems dry) will (virtually) meet the target of 5 ppm nitrate.

Hope I've got it figured out right!

Bensaf - I can not see the option to add directly to the tank on the calculator - I would prefer to add dry ferts.

Last edited by Heaven2 at 23-Feb-2005 10:15

Georgia,

On the calculator it gives you 2 options for calculating - either as a stock solution or adding directly to tank. As far as I know the stock solution refers to if you are preparing PMDD(a solution with all the various ingredients together to dosed daily). I usually use the "add direct to tank" option.
To play safe maybe do the calculation bith ways and see which makes more sense (or which is closest to Tom's reccomendation).

As for the lights, well 3.4wpg is alot for a non C02 tank. But now that you are adding the dry ferts I think probably best to leave them on to give the plants the power to use up the nutrients and really get going. One option is to maybe stagger the timing, don't have all 3+ watts going for all 10-12hrs. If you are using timers, you can have one set come on for the full period 10-12 and the other set come on for maybe 5-6 hours in the middle of the day. Some people do this to try to re-create a tropical mid day kind of effect.

I agree with Tom, lose the 18K lights ! They don't do much for plants, either good or bad, but they really do make everything look yukky, really washes out colors of plants and fish! Once you change them you'll probably be surprised how much greenery you actually have !

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Bablefish -

I put KH2PO4 in the top box.
Then .25 tsp. in the second row.
Mix w/ 100ml of water
10 gallons

Result: Each ml of "solution" will raise the phosphate 0.22ppm

Suggested target level: 0.5-1.0ppm

So, if I'm understanding it right, to achive 0.5ppm, you'll need to add about 2 ml of the "solution".

2/100=.02*.25=.005 tsp of dry K2HPO4
(not very much, is the answer)

Okay, sorry but I can't figure out the calculator
If KH2PO4 helps prevent against BGA, then I would like to start dosing (I've been adding KNO3 for months), but I can't figure out how much to add per 10 gallons of water?

^_^


[hr width='40%']"Somewhere beyond happiness and sadness
I need to calculate,what creates my own madness...
and I am waiting for disaster"

Bensaf - Thanks! That's helpful. I've read through that website before, but never really looked at the calculators. I just read your 3 part plant overview. It was very informative, good job!
I have a quick question for you... Considering my current plant stock, which doesn't really contain any "high" light plants, would I be better off running only 1.7wpg (keeping the actinics off) until the algae problem is under control. Then later, when I get CO2 system, run the full 3.4wpg (replacing the actinics with 6700k's). Or will the reduction in light intensity shock the plants, and slow their growth?

Georia there is a downloadable dosage calculator here http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_dosage_calc.htm

You can choose the fert you want to dose (KNO3,etc), tank size, level you are aiming for etc and it will tell you how much you need to dose

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Oh, and Bablefish, Epsom salt is Magnesium Chloride (not sodium chloride). I think. It's used for dropsy in Bettas.

Plantbrain - When dosing the KNO3, is it 1/2 tsp. total (for 75 gallons), or 1/2 tsp./20 gallons (which I've seen in your previous posts).

Thanks!

I'm having the same problem right now... a five gallon tank that's overcome with BGA. It's not so much that the plants aren't growing well, but that they're growing like, well, the crypts and anubias they are... verrrrrrrrry very slowly.

I'm going to try blacking out my tank for a few days... dosing Erythromyacin if that doesn't work.

Funny thing is that the plants (even under the nastiness) all look very healthy and green. I don't fertilize this tank and everything seems to do well... especially that stupid BGA! *shrugs*

~Meow. Thus spoke the cat.~

Indeed kitten, that's the first tank I ever got bga in, a 5 gallon hex tank.....

Epsom Salts!
How do fish and snails and shrimp ect, ect, ect deal with the salt though?

^_^


[hr width='40%']"Somewhere beyond happiness and sadness
I need to calculate,what creates my own madness...
and I am waiting for disaster"

Tank Stats:
75 gallon (set up for 2 months)
4x65watt CF fixture (2-6700k/10000K, 2-actinic)3.5 wpg (12 hrs/day)
Fluval 404
Tahitian Moon Sand substrate
Ammonia-0, Nitrites-0, Nitrates-10-20ppm
pH 7.5
Weekly 30% water changes

Plants: Amazon Swords, Hornwort, Anacharis, Riccia, Bannana Plant, Java Moss, Java Fern, Bacopa, Crypts, Apontogen, Wisteria
Animals: 7-Pomocea Bridgesii (apple snails), 2-Amano Shrimp, 3-Black Khuli's, 5-Corys (various), 1-Pleco, 2-Otto's, 4-Tetras, 5-Danios, MTS's

Problem: Cyanobacteria!

A few weeks after I set up the tank, I started growing algae of every color of the rainbow. Red, green, black, etc. I had it all.

So, I added more plants, and bought all the "algae eaters".

I started adding fertilizers (Seachem's whole line basically: N,K,P, trace, carbon, iron, plus root tabs).

Within a few days all the red algae was gone from the glass, and the black algae on the swords was going away (or being eaten).

But, then the BGA just took off. I tried a blackout for 3 days, which helped. But, it all returned within a week.

I've tried dosing the ferts, leaving out phosphorous, which helped for a few days, but then it started growing strong again.

Now, my snails started to act like they're being poisoned (two died), so I quit adding the fertilizers, fearing that was the cause.

Then I did two major water changes (a few days apart), and manually removed as much BGA as possible. Now I'm wondering if they're having a reaction to the BGA itself, because they still don't look well. All the fish are fine.

Currently, I'm running 4 other tanks, and have never even seen BGA before now. So, I don't think it's the water supply. I'm wary of antibiotics because of the snails and shrimp. And, I'd rather determine the root cause, so it doesn't return. But, I'm at my wit's end!

Should I:
Perform another blackout? (longer?)
Remove the sensitive animals and dose with erythrimyacin? (sp?)
Resume fertilizing, and attempt to outcompete the BGA?
Change the light? (length of time? strength? spectrum??)
Break down the tank and start over? (I'm really starting to consider this...)

What part am I missing?
I'll appreciate any and all suggestions!

Georgia,

Cyano bacteria (BGA) is a bacteria that is present in the environment. Since it is a photosynthetic bacteria, you could hope that higher level plants will outcompete it for food like the simple cell algae. In my experience, it isn't going to happen.

Clean up the BGA manually then go to eryhromycin. Do a large water change before hand. Suspend use of any ferts. Do a blackout on the tank for three days. Repeat. Your tank should clear up from the BGA.

I'm curious about your doing. Have you noticed poor growth, yellowing leaves or any sign of nutrient deficiency in your plants? I might cut it back substantially until the plants dictate its use.

__________
"To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research."
researched from Steven Wright

Bob, antibiotics alone will not solve the issue, the issue is poor plant growth, the BGA is merely a symtom.

KNO3 additions thereafter will solve the issue and provide long term plant health, when the plants do not grow well, the algae does.

This is a lot of light for a non CO2 tank, I'll assume you used SeaChem Excel?

Even that's not going to be quite enough, you might be able to get away with it, I'd add 1.5x as much as the recommendations.

When you add these nutrients, they are rapidly used up, the NO3 was likely all used up and then you stopped adding nutients, algae are very good at survival at lower nutrients(lower than even the best Lamott or research grade kits can measure for PO4)

Do the blackout, it's free.
Make sure to add the KNO3, otherwise it will come back.
Add more nutrients, you have a lot of light and the plants will use it up fast.

Dry ferts are much cheaper and very easy to use:

KNO3
KH2PO4
Traces(SeaChem Flourish etc)

You can get the KNO3 locally or from
www.gregwatson.com for a few $ for a 1-2 years supply.

You'll add 1/2 teaspoon of KNO3 2x a week, 1/8 teasoon of KH2PO4 2x a week and 15 mls of traces the day after you add these dry powders.

If you use CO2 gas, make sure it's 25-30ppm when the lights are on.


Regards
Tom Barr

I feel your pain! Oh Boy! do I feel your pain !.

It can be beat, and I've done it without using antibiotics, IMO the better route.

Quick question for tom, where can KH2PO4 be purchased. I have the KNO3 bought as tree stump remover....

^_^

[hr width='40%']"Somewhere beyond happiness and sadness
I need to calculate,what creates my own madness...
and I am waiting for disaster"

Babelfish... my apologies for answering a question not directed at me, but you can get it from the same website listed there. I think it comes in 1lb. quantities.

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Back in the saddle!