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Bernard, your reply just made me feel kinda like a no-brainer As a scubadiver I should know these kind of things and should have realized that the system for CO2 probably is very similar. I currently have my eyes on a regulator unit from JBL, this one, however, I can't see anything about a needle valve here, I take it that it has one, but as I haven't seen any of these up close just yet, could you maybe take a peek and see if it looks ok?

thanks

Here in the states all bottles that contain pressurized
gas must be hydrostatically tested. Once the test is done
the bottle is "certified" for use and stamped along the
neck with a date.

Frank, who certifies the bottles or does the testing?

Bah, yesterday I got an email from the online store that they are unable to send me that 10kg cylinder as it is "Dangerous goods". Why the heck do they advertise for those things if they aren't allowed to send them? I still ordered the rest of the stuff, but now I have to start looking for a local tank...

I think I'll stick with the reactor that I currently have. It's a ready made unit from Sera, which basically is a transparant plastic cylinder where the top is connected to the outflow of my filter and at the bottom the CO2 is released. As the CO2 bubbles go up they encounter the downward flow of the filter water and thus are caught in a circular current until they're dissolved into the water. It's about 95% effective I think, only the tiniest of bubbles escape the reactor to slowly make their way to the surface.

Once the unit is installed I really should come up with a better fertilizing schedule, currently I just add a bit of fertilizer every two weeks or so, and although in general the plants are doing ok, I still have a bit of algea growing in the tank.

Any idea what kind of reactor you're going to use ?

You'll be very pleased. As Moondog said once set up and you've got the desired pH level stable it's practically zero maintenance. It's very stable and you end up forgetting it's there after a while. The only thing I do is give the reactor a clean every couple of weeks as it gets dirty with debris and plant matter after a while. Apart from that it's just refill the cylinder about 3 times a year

If you ever need to turn off the gas for some reason , use the cylinder valve to turn it off, not the needle valve. This saves having to fiddle with the needle valve to get the right bubble count all over again

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

good for you just so you know a couple things: a) you shouldn't need teflon tape for any of your connections, test them all under pressure with soapy water before using it. and b) make sure you change the washer that goes between the tank and the regulator every time you change bottles. after you get it set up and running, it is incredibly low maintenance. just check your regulator pressure gauge every few weeks to make sure you didn't spring a leak somewhere and your ph every few hours after you set it up until it stabilizes.

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"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman

well, I've made the plunge. Yesterday evening I ordered for 320 € worth of equipment, including a 10kg CO2 cylinder (22lbs I believe), and needle valve regulator (slightly cheaper than the one above), some teflon tape, CO2 hose and some other unrelated stuff. Even though the cylinder was somewhat above my budget (it cost 249&#8364 I decided to go for because I hope it'll last me close to 10 months or so. Knowing how I tend to forget about these things the longer it lasts the better It'll probably arrive in three weeks or so, just in time, as that's when my -just changed- DIY CO2 probably has run its course

yeah, my regulator also had a builtin needle valve, but it was designed for welding, not fish tanks the shop i bought it from helped me modify it so that it wasn't using the welding parts, and they also reduced the regulator pressure after i told them i needed bubbles/sec not psi and like bensaf, it will blow the tubing off the regulator and/or the reactor if you open it full blast no dents in the wall though...

and bonke, you would do well not to tell your wife too many horror stories if she's anything like mine but if she's willing to help you with this project, she's already at least one step ahead of mrs moondog

Last edited by moondog at 05-Apr-2005 09:31

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"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman

A dent in the wall ey? Hmmm, I better not tell my wife about this and instead just keep all this stuff a little vague I probably will need her help in talking to the possible CO2 providers. Anyway, thanks for all the help Bernard, maybe with somewhat more stable conditions my tank will be a bit more trouble free

Hi Martin,

Yep sometimes it's hard to see the wood from the trees

Looks like a nice regulator.

I would suspect this model has a built in needle valve. A lot of the regulators designed and sold usually do these days. Mine is pretty cheap one designed for aquariums. It only has one dial as the outgoing pressure is pre-set at 40psi (can not be adjusted) and the needle valve is built in. It can be a bit tricky to set. It goes from 2 bubbles a second to a hundred bubbles a second with the tiniest movement, but once it's set I just don't touch it again (switch off gas with the tank valve).

Looking at the pic on your link it looks to me like that regulator is very similar. It's got the big pressure regulator in the middle, but below that at the bottom near where you attach the tubing is what looks to me like another adjustment valve (ie needle valve). If I'm right you shouldn't need another needle valve. Just be careful when setting up, this valve only needs to be opened a tiny amount to get a flow rate of about a bubble/sec , open it full and it will blow the reactor clear off the tubing (yep that happened to me, still got a dent in the wall )

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

I'm thinking to finally making the switch from DIY CO2 to bottled CO2. On a webstore I've seen all the stuff that I'd need for it, and although it'll cost me a small fortune (for me anyway) I've decided to go for it anyway as I'm just not cut out for DIY... I keep forgetting to refresh the medium. Now I'm wondering how long the bottles aprroximately are going to last, and how much it will cost on average to have them refilled? I think I will get myself a 2000g bottle (I'm not quite sure what the g stands for, but that's how they are advertised, gallon maybe?), as the next biggest one is 5000g and more than double the price at 205€, which is too much for me. So all of you who have the bottled setup, please write down your experiences. Oh, and this setup will run on a heavily planted 65g tank.

Ok Martin, I'm assuming you know you need a regulator, right ?

Well the regulator usually has 2 dials. One showing the pressure (in psi) inside the tank. And another showing the pressure going thru the needle valve.A full tank will usually have an internal pressure of 900-1000psi. As the tank empties of Co2 the pressure will drop and the dial will show the pressure dropping.

Some regulators will have only one dial, but this will be always be the tank pressure so you can always tell how full or empty the tank is

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

I'll take a look to see what is available nearby and whether I can refill the bottle without too much trouble. Not speaking finnish myself is always a bit tricky in these kind of things, as I have noticed that the owners of small stores often don't speak any english. At least the needle valve is easy to get and not too expensive from the online store where I sometimes buy. Another question that just came up, how do you know when your tank is about empty? Do you just use the a bubble counter to see if anything is still coming out? Or is there a more sophisticated way?

My own experience is the same as Moondog. I've got a 5kg tank, which lasted about 4 months. Refill is about $5.

After the intial set up cost, pressurized Co2 is very cheap to keep running.

As Frank mentioned other cheaper sources for tanks and refills are bar supply companies and welding supply companies. These should be able to sell you a tank and provide refills cheaper then an LFS.

May need to get the Yellow Pages out (or whatever the Finnish equivilent is !) to see what's available locally.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Just to clarify what I wrote earlier.

With CO2 for aquarists, you do buy the bottle. I pay £9 ($16.95) to have it filled, but instead of filling it, they just give me an already filled bottle instead.

I have made several phonecalls when I had to get it filled for the first time. I got two replies:
1. "We don't do it."
2. "You need to open an account with us, then you need to hire a bottle from us (for a hefty deposit and monthly fee of around £9) and then we will fill it for you whenever you need it (there's also a fee for that, but I didn't ask how much)."

Perhaps I didn't try hard enough (although I spent half a day making phone calls). If anyone in the UK knows of a better option than to have the bottle refilled by the fish shop, I would appreciate to know what it is.

Hi,
I have two 10lb bottles. I keep one on the tank and one,
filled, as the reserve. Here, I spend $9 and some change
to have it refilled. Here (In the states) virtually every
place that serves "adult" beverages uses CO2 as well as
every restaurant (with their Coke/Pepsi and similiar drinks)
The CO2 is suppled by a Beer and Tap store. That is where
I get my bottles refilled.

My tank lasts me about 6-8 months at slightly over 1 bubble
per second.

I find it hard to believe that in Europe the LFS and other
end users have the supply chain that locked up that an
individual cannot simply go to the source of their CO2
and have their own bottle filled.

Here in the states all bottles that contain pressurized
gas must be hydrostatically tested. Once the test is done
the bottle is "certified" for use and stamped along the
neck with a date. Gas suppliers may only fill certified
bottles. Folks who buy their bottles are responsible for
having the test periodically done and if the tank is out
of date, it will not (by Federal Law) be refilled.
If you just keep switching bottles, in effect renting them,
then the "owner" will be responsible for the test and
certification and not you.

Frank


Last edited by FRANK at 02-Apr-2005 07:45

-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Yes, it is grammes and not gallons. I have a 500g bottle which lasts me about 6 months, but that's on a 26 gallons and I run a bubble about every two to three seconds.

Before getting a bottle, check out about refilling them. I take my bottle to my fish shop and they exchange it for a filled bottle for &#163;9 (13 Euros). I asked them if they sell 2KG bottles, as it would make my life easier and they said they can order one, but that they wouldn't be able to exchange it for a full bottle later, so they wouldn't suggest getting one. I took their advice because I was trying to find someone else to refill it before I realised they do it, and no one I phoned would refill that bottle for me as you have to rent the bottle from them.

Also, have a look on ebay before you buy. I bought my JBL CO2 setup on ebay and saved about &#163;75 (100 Euros) on the whole setup (and it was even new!).

grams makes indeed much more sense than gallons 2 months isn't very long indeed, maybe I'll go for the 5kg cylinder after all then... I'll have to re-assess my bank account situation though

i'm guessing 2000g means 2kg?? here in the states you buy your co2 by the pound, and 2kg is about 4.5pounds right? the smallest bottle i can get is 5 pounds, so that's probably correct. for a 65g tank, you will be refilling that tank about every 2 months with a bubble count of 1bbl/s. at least that's about how long a 5 pound bottle lasted me on my 50g tank. if you can get up to the 5000g bottle, i would recommend that -- it will last you much longer. i have a friend who works at a brewery and he gave me a 20pound bottle last summer, and i'm a little over halfway through it. if it was a 5 pound version i would have had to fill it at least 3-4 times by now.

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"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman