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No need to put the CO2 on a timer, the PH controller will automatically turn the CO2 off at night when the PH drops anyway.

Bensaf,

BTW I take it your running the Co2 ? Plants in yet ?

Nah, nothing is set up yet as I am still waiting for parts for the tank from my online-shopping spree.

Yesterday, I went out and bought the canister, I have to say that I did not get a good a deal as Tetratech did, and mine isn't as shiny either, it's gray. But hey, it's going to be in the stand so nobody can see it anyway.

As for the plants, I will write up a new thread in this forum this morning to get some input on what to use. Keep an eye open for it.

Ingo

PS: and with regards to the whole wife thing, please add me to Tom's counseling client list

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Tom,
Can we add relationship counsellor to the plant guru skills

"I love the way your Isoetes look in the LED moonlights"

I think that might get me a whack of the handbag , she may mis-interpret Isoetes

Naw, she's a sweetheart about it really, on the quiet. She may have the occassional moan about me spending too much time on the tanks, but she's the first one to show off the tanks to visitors.Starts babbling tanks specs I always take her out for her favorite sushi lunch and spend some quaility time before I disappear to the aquatic market for a couple of hours.

Last edited by bensaf at 09-Sep-2005 22:14

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Ingo,

I thinks Tom's point was that the pH controller can give a false sense of security. KH can rise. The accuracy of the controller is also dependent on the calibriation and effectiveness of the probe. It can be inaccurately calibrated and the probe does become caked with depoits over time affecting accuracy. It's one more piece of equipment that can cause unneeded issues. Especially when you have the solenoid plugged into a timer, you're basically bypassing the controller anyway.

As for the flow rate. It may not be the kids. Needle valves are finicky little beasts. They move all by themselves. Seriously, you're kids didn't pay me to say that to Daddy I hate having to touch mine as it can take hours to get right again. You set it at a given bubble rate, come back an hour later and it's slipped back to lower rate]:| I usually have to set it higher then I need and wait for it slip back, hopefully to the rate I want. Drives me nuts All this equipment is quite sensitive and shouldn't be taken at face value that they'll do just what you want.

BTW I take it your running the Co2 ? Plants in yet ?

Tetra,
Still can't figure out where that PO4 is coming from. But I will say this do not be tempted to let the kit results alter your dosing schedule. Otherwise your back to square one. You take control not the kits. Keep up with the schedule.Watch the plants. If after a couple of weeks you see the schedule is working you can throw the kits in the bottom drawer and forget about them.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Tom, don't suppose you'd consider buying my wife a handbag then ? Would take a lot of pressure off me.

If I am not there for the hanky panky, I'm not buying her nothing.......you play, you pay.

But why deal with pressure? Just focus on things that are thoughtful and romantic........romance is ultimately about thoughtfulness(not money).......I write a little note that says

"I love the way your Isoetes look in the LED moonlights"

and sneak it into her purse/coat/closet/bathroom etc when she is not looking to find later. Does not cost a thing and will have the same effect if not more if done consistently and can be done anywhere/Free and can be customized or simple.2-3 of of those unexpectedly will definitely get you in good. Madagasgar lace Flowers at work also.

Keep the spouse happy => they will keep you happy and let you have more tanks.


Regards,
Tom Barr

Well,

Tetra, I will just jump over your question as I don’t know the answer, and I will get back to the actual topic of this thread, my CO2 wire maze.

So let’s take Tom’s statement “The solenoid is plugged into the light timer” and review my original setup idea (and diagram).

For one thing I am doing exactly that – no matter what the ph is, when the lights go off the solenoid shuts down. But, unlike Tom and Mr. Amano, I have a ph controller still in the wiring. Is that a bad thing? I don’t think so, as it gives me an additional security level. For example, for the following cases:

a) Tom says “…that assumes my KH is stable”. Well, I will not be able to achieve my CO2 goals if I don’t add Baking Soda to the tank to raise my KH, which naturally is maybe 1/2 degree (in my tank). Here goes my guarantee for a stable KH, as I introduce a likelihood of false dosing while doing water changes etc.

b) For some reason, the flow of CO2 is increased. I know that this is naturally almost impossible, but I have 2 five year old kids running around the house, including their friends sometimes. And what is better than to turn a wheel and see some nice bubbles coming out?

So concluding, let’s assume the following setup:
- All cables and items are wired as described (pictured) above
- Solenoid and Reactor will shut off as soon as the lights go off
- The ph controller is set to close the Solenoid (and to shut off the Reactor) at a ph value that normally would not be reached, for example 6.5 while the target saturation lowers the ph only to 6.6. In case of one of the problems described above, the controller shuts off the CO2.

Do you see anything wrong with my setup?
Did I miss something or made false assumptions about technical “plugging” of the individual devices?

Thanks,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Here's some test results from around 11 am this morning, so my lights have been on for about 2 1/2 hours. I've also been shuting off the co2 between 11pm and 7am.
My co2 rate is a steady 1 bps.

PH 6.8
KH 3
P04 3 to 4
N03 5 to 10

NH3 .25
N02 0

At this point of the day my ratios look a little off. Is that normal for the morning hours. I'm alittle concerned about he phophate number.


Last edited by tetratech at 09-Sep-2005 11:44

My Scapes

I am pretty well heeled these days, but I'd not buy a pH controller.

Tom, don't suppose you'd consider buying my wife a handbag then ? Would take a lot of pressure off me

I suppose I should thank her, if it wasn't for her restraining influence (ok,my sheer fear at the spousal consequences ), I'd probably have spent a heap more then I needed. Funny how they always manage to find the receipts you try to hide after you've told them something you bought only cost half of what it actually did

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

I am pretty well heeled these days, but I'd not buy a pH controller. I have the option to buy all sorts of goodies, but I believe that a simple high quality system is better than a bell and whistle set up any day...........

I use:

CO2 tank=> Solenoid=> needle valve=> Diffuser/reactor.

The solenoid is plugged into the light timer.
I add CO2 for one reason and only one reason, to fertilize the plants.

It has nothing to do with pH, all that does is tell me how much CO2 I have and that assumes my KH is stable.

So my rate of CO2 addition is steady even if the KH moves, if you use a Controller and do not check the KH each week or after a water change or anything that influences the KH..........then you screw yourself.

Everyone gets complacent on their KH testing........Amano does also.......he does not like the controllers either.

I just set the pH monitor on the tank to check and then measure the KH before I add or reduce the CO2 dosing.

Plants do not use CO2 at night.
pH controlled water using CO2 is no better for fish either way.......

Regards,
Tom Barr

Thank you Bensaf for this report from the front-line,

Before we continue with our next topic, “NTSN - New Tank Setup Nervousness”,

let us go to a commercial break …

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Dosing sounds good

Wouldn't worry about the spot algae on the glass, normal at this stage, easy to clean off.Maybe reducing the 4 watt cycle a bit will help. Either way once the old plants and new plants get re-established/established you should see that drop off.

Don't see how the water changes will interfere with the cycle, your bacteria will be colonising substrate, filter media, plants etc. Planted tanks are slow to cycle probably may not even cycle if the plants snaff up the NH4 before the bacteria can.Again normal in a planted tank. The set up routine/cycling is quite different to a fish only tank.

As I explained the water change is a re-set function. You can play with the water change schedule. But I don't see any reason for not doing them.

How's the Co2 looking ? Keep us updated on how the plants react. You should see a noticable difference to your previous set up within a couple of weeks.

BTW, I got an e-mail from another member who was having difficulties with algae and stalled growth. He went down the EI road. Very happy. He says the plants have never looked so good. He sent me before and after pics, his once dying swords are bright green and lush - and getting too big.

Now I'll hand you back to Ingo in the studio. Ingo.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

"Sorry to interupt. We will now return to normal programming"

Not so fast Bensaf, my apologies to Littlefish.

Right now I'm dosing:

1/4 tsp no3 (3/wkly) - dry fert
3/10 gram po4 - dry fert
5 ml Flourish potassium sulfate - liquid fert
5 ml Flourish - liquid fert

I've been adding all these 3 times/weekly and my lights are on 2wpg 11 hours 4 wpg 7 hours.

I "tested" my water the other day and it looks like I do have 1 to 10 ratio po4 (1ppm) to no3 (10-15ppm).

I'm seeing alittle spot algae on the glass at this point. Not sure how to handle water changes, since tank is cycling and big water changes based on EI method would probably interfere with cycle.




Last edited by tetratech at 08-Sep-2005 07:01

My Scapes

I wonder if the 6700/10000 was giving me add'l algae problems.

Over analysing again

I doubt it was the bulbs.Once you start your new program and see the results, your algae questions will be answered.

Sorry to interupt. We will now return to normal programming

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Check your PM, Ingo.

I just found out my cousin is a manager for an industrial gas distributor that sells CO2 tanks and equipment to welding companies, horticulture, food & beverage etc. So I'm going to beg and plead with her to get me a deal, then maybe ask for a JBJ regulator kit for Xmas or see if she has any ideas for going pressurized on a budget. /:'

Tetra,

Thanks for the price info, I haven't looked for a welding shop yet.

About the lights, you can read about it Here. Scroll halfway down to view the link to the vendor page.

Ingo

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 07-Sep-2005 13:54

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Littlefish,

Just read the beginning of the thread.
I think you will be really happy with the top gun, as you know it's the one I got. I didn't go for the whole setup as you did, because I wasn't sure if I wanted an internal or external diffusor/reactor. I purchased the co2 tank from a local welding store. I checked prices at several places and they were all about $85 for a filled 5lb tank. I could have purchased a used tank for $70 but opted for a new aluminum one.

Right now I have my solenoid plucked into a timer that shuts it off between 11pm and 7am and my lights are on 9am to 8pm. At first I was shuting it off with the lights but I noticed a (.4) shift in ph overnite. I'm not comfortable with that.

What light system did you buy that you had to take out the saltwater arrangement and replace with freshwater planted type bulbs.

My Scapes

Thanks Bob,

I am breathing

Tetratech - Untitled suggested a while ago this combination, I will see how it goes and if I don't like it, well - I still have the 10,000 from the orignal set.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I believe some of the reagent spoons that come with some nh3 test kits is about 1/10 of a gram.

See, tests are good for something.

Littlefish:
How come you are going with 6700 and 5000. Just curious.
My current bulbs are 6700 and dualdaylight (6700/10,000)
I wonder if the 6700/10000 was giving me add'l algae problems.

Last edited by tetratech at 07-Sep-2005 10:15

My Scapes

Deep breath then book mark this site:

http://www.gourmetsleuth.com/gram_calc.htm

Use the conversion calculator to take grams to teaspoons. Much less expensive than a scale.

__________
"To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research."
researched from Steven Wright

I totally forgot that I have no tool in the house to measure 1 gram.

Use a teaspoon

There are measuring spoons you can buy that measure 1/2 tspn, 1/4 tspn etc .

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.