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OK, I know I saw a link on here somewhere but I couldn't find it. Instead I'll give out my readings from my new test kits.

//////////// pH: /////// kH //////// gH

Tap ///// //// 7.6 ////// 5 /////// messed that up
CO2 Tank ////// 8.0 ///// 8 ////// 12
No CO2 Tank /// 8.3 ////// 6 ////// 8

I thought that was a little weird that the kH and gH was higher in the tank with CO2 running, maybe I switched the tubes on accident...but both would be hard for even me to mess up.

To the real question, I was wondering how much CO2 I had in my tank with those numbers. I'm using DIY mix with a "bell" diffuser. I've noticed some good new growth after maybe 4 weeks.
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[span class="edited"][Edited by mattyboombatty 2004-08-04 17:08][/span]

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Hi,
There are several charts available on the internet,
Here's one:

http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Thanks!

So it would seem that I have 2.4 ppm of CO2 in my tank. My no CO2 tank would have .9 ppm, so I guess it's an increase anyways.

It just seems that I'm getting the shaft on this CO2 business because I have a high pH and kH.

What does everyone else have?

[span class="edited"][Edited by mattyboombatty 2004-08-04 17:06][/span]

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Hi there. I haven't tested in awhile, but in your co2 tank the ph dropped .3. That's a good sign when the ph drops a few points like yours did.. Your high ph, gh and kh means that you have extremely hard water, like myself. My tap water is 8.2 ph so going by your results its prob 7.9 now, much better. I'm getting ph test kit shortly. To lower ph, gh, and kh, you'd need to mix about 20% RO water in with your water changes. Better to do that then buy chemicals to try and lower the values..

Peat moss would soften the ph a bit but general and carbonate hardness to lower means getting those excess metals and minerals out of the water, the only way is to dilute. Hope this helped, good luck !



The Amazon Nut...

So the hardness really does kill the CO2? I wouldn't think that that was the case. I didn't think that lowering the kH or pH would actually affect the CO2 like the CO2 affects the kH and pH....follow me?

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Another though, about your comment on getting the shaft on the co2 due to the hard water. You got me thinking, maybe all the excess minerals and that in the water, fights the absorption of the CO2 to some degree.. This makes sense so you're probably right !

Even if it does. CO2 still made a dramatic difference in my tank, same as you, about a 1 month period to take hold.
Now I've gotten rid of alot of stem plants and floating plants, and more slow growing (less maintenance) plants so the difference is not as noticeable to me anymore..

I'll be getting more test kits soon and since my ph is close to yours, I'll send you my results for comparison.
Cheers !

The Amazon Nut...

Thanks

I appreciate it, I never really knew what to expect from the CO2.

The results are obvious though. I bought my jungle vals at about 1.5 ft. and now they are about 3. That's about 3 weeks for those. My amazon sword went from maybe 9-10 leaves to maybe 20 and is a few in. taller too. About six months ago I took that amazon sword plant out of the tank that had my silver dollars in it....there weren't any leaves after they got through with it. What a hardy plant.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Understand what you are trying to say. If you drop either the PH or the Kh there will be a corresponding shift in the other and the Co2 content will remain the same.
Other wise we wouldn't need CO2 injection we could just add something to alter either Ph or Kh and voila more c02 ! Unfortunately it doesn't work that way, bit a lot cheaper and simpler if it did.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Hi,
An interesting discussion. In it you all point out
why DIY CO2 injection is so difficult to do successfully.
There is no way to regulate it. When the concoction is
first mixed, CO2 is generated like mad, and as the
bactria age and use up the available sugar, and the
system dilutes, the CO2 drops off. Then you mix a new
batch, and the cycle begins again. The result is a
surge of CO2, a drop in pH, and then the tapering off
of CO2, and a corresponding rise in pH. The only way
to molify that surge is to use multiple bottles and
stagger their use so things remain relatively constant.

With a bottled system, you should measure your pH, and
KH, and then look at the chart to see where you are
in CO2 saturation (you want to be in the green area).
Then you open the system up and start injecting the
CO2 at a rate of about 1 bubble/second. Let it run
for 12-24 hours, testing pH frequently, and adjust
your rate of injection up or down to keep you in the
green area, and at the saturation level you want.
Watch the fish first thing in the morning to see if
they are gasping at the surface. If they are, then
you have too much CO2 in the water, and need to back
off the injection rate (again still keeping in the
green area) till the fish stop showing early morning
stress.

The Carbonate Hardness (KH) is what is buffering
the pH of the water. The higher the KH, the more
CO2 needs to be injected to make a "dent" in the pH
reading. Conversely, with a lower the KH, smaller
amounts of CO2 will make a larger "dent" in the pH.
Most who use bottled CO2 keep their KH between 4 and
7. Less than 3 will give you too radical a swing in
pH.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Thanks for all the help guys

I think I've finally figured this out. People with a higher kH experience a smaller shift in pH when adding CO2. They don't get less CO2. Ok I'm an idiot.

Another thing...If I use a bell diffuser that holds only a certain amount of CO2 in it, which is less than what my DIY can produce in the first couple weeks....shouldn't the amount of CO2 in my tank hold steady?

That's probably something I have to test for.

I'd like to have $400 worth of CO2 stuff, but if I had that money I'd probably buy another tank first.

[span class="edited"][Edited by mattyboombatty 2004-08-05 10:58][/span]

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

To keep it simple, even with my extremly hard water (very close ph to yours, co2 injection was successful, I did not measure it, but my plants told me it works well

The Amazon Nut...

Hey Matty, got my test kit (see, I didn't forget !)
Here's the results, for what it's worth...

Tap PH 8.0 KH 18 GH 22
29 gal CO2 PH 8.0 KH 14 GH 19
10 gal Oto PH 8.0 KH 11 GH 19
90 Cichlid PH 8.0 KH 18 GH 27

The 29 gal is the only tank with CO2.
The CO2 just ran out today, have to make a batch..
Hope this helps.

[span class="edited"][Edited by DaFishMan 2004-08-08 21:58][/span]

The Amazon Nut...

Wow, it looks like with your hardness, the CO2 didn't even put a dent in your pH. I think you are right about the plants showing the effectiveness of the CO2 and not the pH change.

Thanks DaFishMan

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Happy I could be of help. Keep in mind the co2 was not a bubblin and I should test once it's bubblin a fresh batch for a week.. I'll pm ya the result.

The Amazon Nut...