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sorry this is a duplicate of the last post - some links got messed up in that and it was easier to start over...

this is also a continuation of sorts of another post, but the topic is kind of different so it seemed better to start a new one

OK, I'm starting to understand the mechanics of CO2 set-ups, but i still have some questions about the post-bubble counter phase. from what ive learned, it seems that one way of getting the CO2 into the tank is to connect a powerhead to a reactor and have water mix with the CO2 in there, and flow into the tank that way. another seems to be using a diffuser - would something like thishttp://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=9907&N=2004+113220]http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=9907&N=2004+113220[/link] work? and what about something like this [link=http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=9915&N=2004+113220 what are the differences, and does one work better than the other? just so i understand correctly, with a diffuser, the bubble counter would be directly connected to the diffuser, which is then placed in the tank...?

what about reactor v. diffuser? does one method work better or would one be more economical than the other? many many thanks


rich

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well, according to the first link, you will get "100%" of the co2 mixed without any escaping. of course, this is impossible, since the only way to reduce the effect of co2 escaping your tank is to reduce surface agitation. but some will still escape, or else your fish will die once you reach 100% co2 saturation because there will no longer be oxygen getting into the tank

the 2nd one seems like a better deal to me, but maybe if frank sees this he can comment on it better than i can. also, it doesn't make sense to me to have a bubble counter on a diffuser, because there would be no pressure to put the co2 into the diffuser from the bubble counter that i know of. the reason a bubble counter works with a reactor is because the flow of water through the reactor sucks the co2 into the reactor chamber where it mixes with the water.

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"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman

argh....

yeah i was thinking of that too...

i cant understand why all of these CO2 setup combos that stores off never come with a powerhead, when it seems like you cant get around having one! i mean, it seems like a necessity with a reactor, but they seem to offer either a reactor w/o a powerhead, or a diffuser with a bubble counter (which also apparently doesnt make sense). i didnt expect this to be so frustrating

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well, if the bubble counter was built-in to the diffuser, then it would make sense, but i don't see it being an *external* thing to the diffuser.

and the reason why they sell it all separately? guess.

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"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman

Hi,
Actually with a reactor, the water is pumped into it
where it mixes with the gas. Then the water is discharged
into the tank. Many reactors are mounted inside the tank
and discharge down toward the gravel. Others while external,
discharge through a tube whose output is below the surface
to cause minimum agitation. If you have the CO2 injection
so high that the gas escapes out the bottom of the reactor,
then you are injecting it at too high a rate.
I inject at slightly less than 2 bubbles/second, and none
of the gas comes out of the bottom of the reactor nor are
there leaks. The gas is absorbed by the water.

As far as using a reactor or a diffuser, that is your
choice, and should depend upon the amount of money
available, and the asthetics of the delivery.

As I said, I use an internal reactor, and while it works
great, it looks bad and I have to hide it with plants.
If I were to do it again, I belive I would opt for an
external reactor even though it would require a different
pump and plumbing (I currently use the output from
the power head atop my UGF).

The diffuser is simply a form of airstone. The really
good ones are made of slintered glass, and are expensive.

The whole idea is that the longer the gas stays in contact
with the tank's water, the more gas will be absorbed.
The diffuser breaks the gas into very very tiny bubbles
that are subject to the currents within the tank and
swirl around the tank becomming smaller as they work
their way toward the surface. Hopefully none make it
to the surface where they would burst harmlessly into
the atmosphere.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

well, thanks for your help, both of you. i really appreciate the time youve put in to answering my newbie dumb questions. this CO2 setup thing has just gone beyond me, so im giving up the idea for now. maybe ill get it some day

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it shouldn't be that hard to understand. where are you getting confused?

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"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman

ok, for starters:

it doesn't make sense to me to have a bubble counter on a diffuser, because there would be no pressure to put the co2 into the diffuser from the bubble counter that i know of

could you explain this a little further, please? so you're saying with a diffuser, you would run the airline straight from the regulator to the diffuser - that the force of the co2 coming out of the tank would be enough? wouldnt that make it harder to control how much you put into the tank?

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well, as i said, it doesn't make sense to me to have one *outside* the diffuser. according to the diffusers you link to, the co2 hooks up right to the diffuser, and i guess the bubble counters must be built in, because otherwise there is no way for the co2 to get into the diffuser. look at the pic of my reactor in the other thread and see how the bubble counter is separate from the reactor. and when i look up other diffusers online, i see that many of them *do* have built-in bubble counters. and the pressure inside a co2 bottle is more than enough to go directly to a diffuser, since many welders run co2 at 30psi, which is far and above the levels of 1-2 bubbles/sec needed for aquarium use.

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"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman

I've been looking around, does this setup seem ok? it's a regulator system http://aquariumplant.com/cgi-bin/cart/pr840.html]http://aquariumplant.com/cgi-bin/cart/pr840.html[/link], a reactor with a powerhead attached [link=http://aquariumplant.com/cgi-bin/cart/pr374.html]http://aquariumplant.com/cgi-bin/cart/pr374.html[/link], and 5lb. empty tank [link=http://aquariumplant.com/cgi-bin/cart/pr752.html
plus CO2 tubing

from my understanding all the bases are covered, but is there anything wrong with this?

p.s., i know it's expensive, but price isnt the issue here

Last edited by nowherman6 at 10-Nov-2004 11:48

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how big of a tank was this going in?? you might want a 10lb bottle if the tank is larger than about 75g. and i see that the regulator has its own bubble counter attached, that might be where our confusion has come from about bubble counters. but otherwise it looks like you have a complete setup

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"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman

tank is 46 gallons. one of the reasons for my reactor v. diffuser questions was that i wasnt sure if a reactor with powerhead would be too dominating in my tank set up, since my tank isnt THAT big. wasnt sure if it would take up too much room, but it seems like the way to go. thanks for all your help... now to wait for my next paycheck

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