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hey.. i just set up my new 95 gal about 4 days ago and the water is still very cloudy.. i noe the latrite tends to cloud the water but how long for??
anything i can do to speed up the process??

r0b3y

r0b3y,

How did you use the Laterite? Did you only add it to the bottom 3rd of the substrate (as recommended) ?

Usually laterite particles are rather heavy and will settle within a few hours. If you have a current that would blow it off the substrate then it may be different.

If you "cloud" is more whitish, then I would assume it is a bacterial bloom that happens rather often in newly setup tanks and can last for up to one week (it lasted about 5 days in my 29G).

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hi,
If the cloudiness is caused by the clay particles that
is what laterite actually is, then the only way to get
the water crystal clear within a reasonable time is to
use a diatom filter.
They will filter out particles that are 1 micron large.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

wow 1 micron?

yea the tank is cloudy white.. i wouldnt think it is a bacterial bloom as i am useing an already well developed and seeded canister.
the latrite layer is only 1 inch thik with half an inch of 2mm gravel ontop of that.. should i maybe to a 50% water change??
also i have 3 rainbows in there.. will the clay particles harm them?*shrugs*

i have a fluidized bed filter stored away.. if i was to use that would it make a difference?..
ill try get a picture soon..
sorry about all the questions
thx in advance..

here is a picture.. not the best but gives u an idea
http://members.optusnet.com.au/atozzi/forum%20pics/errr.jpg

r0b3y

the latrite layer is only 1 inch thik with half an inch of 2mm gravel ontop of that..

Can you clarify if I interpret that right:

- There is a layer with a height of 1" of pure laterite
- On top of that is 0.5 inch of gravel
- That's it

If this is correct, then how did you come up with that substrate idea? This sounds to me like you have way too much laterite in the tank. Frank may know more about it as I use a form of laterite that is very intense and is mixed with gravel on the bottom 3rd of the substrate, then there are 2/3 of gravel on top of this. This means that even my smaller low tech planted tanks have a substrate height of around 3+ inches.

Pretty much all of your plants seem to be tied to hardscape and don't even use the substrate for nutrients. Are you planning on adding more plants into the substrate directly?

the tank is cloudy white

I would still assume that it is a bacterial bloom. BTW, your tank looks nice and it doesn't look all that cloudy in the picture. One way of telling if the cloud would be caused by the laterite is if you see a layer of brown stuff starting to form on top of your plant leaves. That would be laterite, but make sure that it is not formed from the initial setup as this would be normal with such a thin layer of gravel.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hi,
You have two things "muddying" up the waters so to speak.
It might be the clay, or it might be the bacteria.

First, when using the "layering" method, one generally
shoots for 3 to 4 inches total depth of substrate.
The bottom layer is the "action layer" so to speak and it
lies against the bare tank bottom. The bottom layer, in
your case is laterite. This is an ancient clay that over
the millions of years it took to create it has a high
quantity of iron trapped in it and will release the iron
to the plants over a prolonged period of time.

Second, this clay layer is generally 1/2 the total
substrate depth.
That is, it should be 1 1/2inch to 2 inches thick,
and capped with a layer of regular gravel that is also
1 1/2 to 2 inches thick. I have seen instances where
the laterite is 1/2 inch but then it is capped with at
least an inch to an inch and a half of regular gravel.
When planting, the roots are placed into the top layer,
only, and they grow down into the clay layer. You don't
put the roots directly into the clay layer. Your cap
layer is too thin, and is easily disturbed by fish,
currents from replacement water, and by you as you
move them around later.

THE biggest drawback of the "layer method" is that when
the plants mature and have grown down into the clay
layer, and you remove them, you will bring the clay
particles up into suspension along with the roots of
the plant. This cloudy water will take ages to become
crystal clear again - unless you use a diatom filter.
Only Diatom filters will remove the turbidity.
Your fluid sand filter will not work. It is designed
so that the sand is in constant motion and each sand
grain becomes a home for the beneficial bacteria that
breaks down the fish waste. If the sand just lays
there, then not all the surface is colonized. By keeping
it "fluid" in motion, the entire surface area of each
grain becomes colonized, increasing the bacterial
capability of the filter many times over that of "regular"
filters.

LF is also right. In a new tank, you could have a typical
bacterial bloom which is characterized by white cloudy
water conditions. It is kinda hard to distinguish between
the two. However, in my experience clay in suspension will
be white to brownish white while bacterial blooms are just
plain white.

Yes, water changes will help, especially if the cause is
the clay. No, the fish should be fine as long as you can
see through the murkiness they should be fine.

I have a diatom filter that I set up and run when I am
doing a major replanting of a tank, or once a quarter.
The filter is an amazing thing, and even if you think your
water is clean before hand, once you run one on a tank
for a few hours, the water almost disappears, and the fish
seem to be swimming in air. In other words, the water
becomes crystal clear. In my tanks, I have had a tank
go from a mud bath, to crystal clear in less than four
hours with a diatom filter. These things are not meant
to be run 24/7. They are to be used in addition to your
regular filter to "polish" the water. Also, be careful
when setting up a diatom filter, we are using the skeletons
of diatoms and they are pure silica (SiO2). Silica is a
known cause of lung & respiratory cancer. DO NOT BREATHE
the dust into your body, and be sure to wash your hands
after setting up the filter. Many have a tendency to just
wipe their hands on their britches, that is not a good
idea.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

latrite confuses me now.. so many people are saying different things..
a few people here in australia recmonded me to add the 1 inch to 1 and half inch of latrite mixed with 2mm gravel. On top i could say i have another inch of 2mm gravel.. basically enough to keep laterite down but enough for roots to penerate it quickly.

Are you planning on adding more plants into the substrate directly?

Ingo i have just started the tank with some hardy plants against driftwood etc.. later when this water clears up and i get some more fish in there it will have much more plants. I'm going more with swords, crypts some stem plants here n there. Also im still setting up my proper lighting.


i am starting to think that in fact it may be a bloom. i opened the filter last night, gave it a rinse and it was not that dirty. The tank has a white cloud, no sign of brown.

Frank i did some research on diatom filters and the aint cheap ..lol but i think they would be well worth.. i mite look into gettin one much later on when i save up some more money.

i think ill just stick to water changes?? and ill add some amtrite down to keep the bacteria up.

thank u both so much for helping
ill keep u posted
cheers

Hi,
The conflicting comments are actually not conflicting
unless they are saying that THEIRS is THE way.

Actually the stuff (Laterite) was intended to be used
100% as a layer under the gravel. However, laterite is
expensive and a layer one, to one and a half, inches thick
in a large aquarium can set one back a bit. So, folks
suggested that to at least get some benefit from it,
mix it 50/50 with gravel and then add the cap layer.

The same has been suggested by many for each of the
types of "plant friendly" substrates from Fluorite to
Laterite, to even Echo Complete, to unscented kitty
litter. Just a way to stretch a dollar. The best
results are with a 100% layer of "something" with a
cap layer of the same, or more, thickness of aquarium
gravel.

Yes, a diatom filter is expensive but believe me, the
results are astounding and it is well worth the cost.

Frank



-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

lol latrite is free in australia.. just gotta drive a good distance to get some.. aka in victoria as werribee soil.
http://members.optusnet.com.au/atozzi/forum%20pics/DSC01074.jpg