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	Doing Substrate For Cheap?
moondog Moderator The Hobnob-lin Posts: 2676 Kudos: 1038 Votes: 4366 Registered: 30-Sep-2002	i'm about to re-establish my old planted tank from scratch and i'm wondering how best to do the substrate for not a lot of money? i know i've read here that people have used clay kitty litter for the base and then gravel on top. are there any other good substrates that i can use for cheap? "That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman
Posted 31-Mar-2006 14:11
NowherMan6 Fish Master Posts: 1880 Kudos: 922 Votes: 69 Registered: 21-Jun-2004	moondog, nice to hear you're getting back into the planted scene Honestly, you can be just fine with a plain gravel substrate, no need for extra layers etc. Just look for something relatively small grained. You can effectively keep plants nourished with water column ferts rather than substrate ferts. p.s. kitty litter? *Back in the saddle!*
Posted 31-Mar-2006 14:23
moondog Moderator The Hobnob-lin Posts: 2676 Kudos: 1038 Votes: 4366 Registered: 30-Sep-2002	ah, i've used the smallest grain gravel i can find and it wasn't quite good enough to keep sag and vals without my fish digging them up every day. and cat litter -- it wasn't my idea besides, i'm not talking about used kitty litter "That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman
Posted 31-Mar-2006 15:35
NowherMan6 Fish Master Posts: 1880 Kudos: 922 Votes: 69 Registered: 21-Jun-2004	Fish digging can be a problem, but if you make it through the first few days they should forget about them and stop trying to dig them up. It may also help if you push them down a good deal into the substrate at first. The runners will find their own ideal depth eventually. *Back in the saddle!*
Posted 31-Mar-2006 17:02
FRANK Moderator Posts: 5108 Kudos: 5263 Votes: 1690 Registered: 28-Dec-2002	Hi Moon, Welcome back to the "green side." You did not mention what fish inhabit the tank. Many make it their purpose in life to either eat, or uproot, anything that resembles a healthy plant. As you want to do this project economically (I don't use the word, "cheap," instead of UNscented kitty litter, you might try a layer of laterite, mixed 50/50 with regular aquarium gravel. Then "cap" the layer with more straight aquarium gravel. The reason for the kitty litter, laterite, and the other substrates is to provide iron (Fe) for the plants over a long period of time. Iron is one of the many things that plants need, and is not always easy to provide. Those substrates do it automatically, leaving "us" to provide the other nutrients. The problems with any layered system is that any disturbance that reaches into the layer with the clay will cause the water to become cloudy with suspended particles that take "forever" to settle out. Once the plants are established, any time you uproot one, or the fish dig one out, the clay will become a problem. This is one of the reasons why most folks will use substrates such as fluorite or ecocomplete, they don't cloud the water as easily. Frank -->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--
Posted 31-Mar-2006 17:37
moondog Moderator The Hobnob-lin Posts: 2676 Kudos: 1038 Votes: 4366 Registered: 30-Sep-2002	sorry, inhabitants will be a clown loach, a big pleco, a few clown plecos, guppies and quite possibly an angel or other semi-non-aggressive cichlid (i haven't decided on that one yet). "That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman
Posted 01-Apr-2006 02:28
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005	Here is another set of questions for you. What size tank? Lighting plans? Plants you want? You might be able to get away with regular gravel and add in tab ferts like flourish tabs for your plants that are going to want them. Stuff like crypts and swords. YOu could alwasy go with plants that dont need to be rooted in like anubias and java fern. Just tie them down to rocks and DW. Check out Kieth's tank for some ideas. 55G Planted tank thread 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Posted 01-Apr-2006 03:33
moondog Moderator The Hobnob-lin Posts: 2676 Kudos: 1038 Votes: 4366 Registered: 30-Sep-2002	50g tank i've already got a BIG anubias barteri but i want to do some nice rooted plants like sag and val. i've done the crypts but they take so much space once they get going. lighting is 3wpg, with co2 setup already. this tank was established once before, i had to take it down to move and now i want to do things a little better than last time "That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman
Posted 01-Apr-2006 07:36
Wingsdlc Fish Guru What is this? Posts: 2332 Kudos: 799 Registered: 18-Jan-2005	I am not 100% sure but I think that most of the plants you want can take in their nutrients through the water collum so you would not need any crazy substrate. Although if you want to try the kitty stuff then do some more research and try it. Let us know how you do. 55G Planted tank thread 19G Container Pond [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Posted 01-Apr-2006 16:08
FRANK Moderator Posts: 5108 Kudos: 5263 Votes: 1690 Registered: 28-Dec-2002	Edited by FRANK Hi Moondog, With the plecos and as large and rambunctious as they can get I think I'd not bother with a capped substrate. Those critters can be like a bull in a china shop as they race through the foliage and if they uproot them as they go through, the plants will pull the clay particles up through the cap layer and into the water. I'd stick with regular gravel. The tank looks really nice. Perhaps an Amazon Sword as a "green" eye catcher as well as the mentioned stem plants. Frank -->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--
Posted 01-Apr-2006 17:59


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