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Hi

Is there a proper process for changing an emersed grown plant to submersed form? Is it just a case of submersing the plant and waiting for the old leaves to die off and new ones to grow? And finally, is it an easier process with mature plants or with new plantlets?

The reason I ask is that I found a beautiful, emersed grown amazon sword plant in the pond / marginal section of the garden centre today and of course it had to come home with me. I'm happy to keep it as a water loving pot plant but I can already see that it will need re-potting in the near future, (there are at least 3 largish plants in the pot as well as several spikes with numerous plantlets). I was thinking that I may try putting some of the mature plants, or some of the plantlets in my aquarium when the time comes to re-pot.

Any input on the best way to go about changing the plants to handle submersed life, and if it's even worth doing, would be appreciated.

G_T

EDIT: After some more research, it's not an amazon sword (E. amazonicus) at all... it's an emersed Echinodorus Osiris... not sure if that makes any difference to the process.


Never be afraid to try something new. Remember that a lone amateur built the Ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic.

Hi Trop,
Now I understand your comments from last night's chat.
Sorry I ducked out but it had been a tiring day.

All you need to do with that plant is to plant it where
you want it to grow. The plant will take care of its own
acclimation to being submerged. As the process takes
place the roots will change from drawing nutrients in a
terrestrial environment to that of the aquatic environment
in which it finds itself. As that happens, the plant will
draw on its store of nutrients to provide the energy for
growth. In that process, the large, older leaves, will
begin to yellow (as the nutrients go elsewhere) and die
off. At the same time as the new roots grow, new leaves
should begin to grow above the substrate. Remove the dead
and dying leaves. Eventually the plant will make a full
change over and the baby leaves will become adult. You can
help the process by adding fertilizer sticks, tablets, or
balls, at the four compass points around the plant, about
an inch to two inches out from the center of the plant
root ball.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Thanks for your response Frank, and there is no need to apologise.

Now another question... Should I be concerned about possible chemicals such as pesticides and fertilisers used on the plant before I acquired it?
I'm probably being a bit paranoid, but I'm conscious of the fact that I bought this plant from a large chain-store type garden centre rather than an LFS so I don't know what had been used on or around it and I doubt even if I asked nicely that the staff there would be able to provide me with any reassurance.

Obviously I would be washing the roots free of the existing potting substrate and giving the plant itself a good wash before planting it underwater, but now I'm wondering if it would it be better to plant it in a quarantine environment (in a tub full of substrate and water or something similar) until submersed growth is achieved and then move it to it's final location in a fish tank at a later date?

Thanks again

G_T


Never be afraid to try something new. Remember that a lone amateur built the Ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic.

troppo i would suggest using one of the vegetable cleaners sold in the super markets to clean the plant free of all pesticides...

but if you are surely that concerend i would plant in a controlled enviroment (ie QT) and just wait for the new growth...

good find! also research to make sure this plant can be grown submerged!

\\\\\\\"an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of the cure\\\\\\\"

Hi Trop,
I'm actually sort of surprised by your comment and when I
got to thinking about it, your concern made sense. If I
were growing plants emerged for the aquarium trade, I would
not use any pesticides on them, and since they are not
fruit bearing plants, I wouldn't think them necessary.

If you got them from the supplier, or can find out who that
might be, it may be worth a phone call, email, or letter to
them to find out if they do use them.

Some of the pesticides have an oil base and that would not
be washed off under running water. Brandeno has a good
idea. They market some sort of liquid that you spray with
a squirt bottle on produce before eating them. It is
supposed to remove exactly what you are concerned about
from the produce making it squeaky clean to eat.
You might give it a try, unless your inquiries come back
negative (no pesticides).

Frank

-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Thanks for the responses guys.

Brandeeno - yes, the plant is definitely suited to being underwater, it's an Echinodorus Osiris (AKA Melon Sword plant). Commonly used as an aquarium plant so no concerns on that count.

I've tracked down the plant nursery that supplies the store and I'll be sending them an email shortly.
I wasn't really too concerned about external residue (I figure that I can remove any external stuff with washing, or specialty products as suggested), more about what may have been absorbed into the tissues of the plant that might be released back into an aquarium as the emersed leaves and roots die off. Hopefully I will hear back from the nursery and be reassured that they don't use anything that could have a negative impact on the other living critters in my aquarium.

Thanks again

G_T





Never be afraid to try something new. Remember that a lone amateur built the Ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic.

Hi,

It's been a while since I started this thread so I thought I should provide a quick update.

As I mentioned in my last post I emailed the plant nursery that supplies the garden centre where I purchased the plant and asked what chemicals, if any, they use in their operation but got no response, not even an acknowledgement

The sword plant that I purchased has been sitting in it's original pot, in a deep saucer of water on my verandah for a few weeks receiving indirect sunlight and rain and has been doing extraordinarily well. I even had tadpoles swimming around in the water which gave me a little reassurance that the plant / potting mix was not leaching anything toxic (I figure that if there were nasty chemicals in there the frogs either would not have spawned in the water, or the tadpoles would not have been able to survive it... this may be flawed logic, but it eased my mind a bit)

The original plant has sent out 3 flower spikes which have each developed numerous plantlets with about 6 leaves each. Last week I bent a couple of the spikes down so that the plantlets were sitting directly in the saucer of water instead of suspended 8 inches above the main plant - less than 48 hours later I had 6 plantlets sprouting nice, thick, healthy white roots as well as a couple of new leaves each

Yesterday I cut 2 of the plantlets off the spikes and planted them in my 180g (leaving 4 still attached to the main plant to continue growing), so now it's a waiting game to see if they adapt to survive aquarium life.

G_T



Never be afraid to try something new. Remember that a lone amateur built the Ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic.

How long should it be before I start seeing a transition from emersed to submersed plant (ie when can I call this a successful move)?

It's now been 11 days since I put the 2x E.Osiris plantlets in the aquarium and I have not seen anything yet that would indicate to me that the plants are transitioning... the leaves have remained the same colour and shape - no yellowing or melting at all, have grown slightly larger and have sprouted a couple of new leaves each - although I think these new leaves may have been just starting to sprout when I moved the plants.

Being such young plants I would not have thought that they would have much in the way of stored nutrients / energy to sustain the plant in its emersed form for very long. TBH I was kind of expecting to see changes within a matter of days. Am I just being impatient?

G_T

Never be afraid to try something new. Remember that a lone amateur built the Ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic.

Hi Trop,
Yes, I suspect you might be just a bit impatient, but the
emergence of new leaves and the growth of the old ones
indicates to me that the transition is going well.

Not all transitioning plants will have dying leaves and
growing new ones. I suspect that the "fast growers"
(stem plants) would be the main culprits for that case.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

I finally got around to taking some pics of the sword plants in the tank. I have not noticed any die off or adverse reactions to being submersed with the plants that I have moved to the tank. Fingers crossed that they continue on this track.

I think there are now about 8 of the plantlets scattered throughout my big tank. The parent plant continues to send out flower spikes and plantlets, at this rate I will be over run with swordplants in no time at all!

Pic 1

Pic 2

Pic 3

G_T

Never be afraid to try something new. Remember that a lone amateur built the Ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic.