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I'm not a premium member so I can't do a poll. Anyway, what's your favorite planted substrate? I like Eco-Complete.

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I like Led Zeppelin.

I don't really have a favorite...I've used Flourite, a mix of Flourite and gravel, and larger gravel in my anubias tank. I've had good luck with all three.

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There is water at the bottom of the ocean

Hi,
I prefer Flourite. It is an iron rich clay that comes
in aquarium gravel size and lasts for years and years.
Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

And I don't have a favorite either,

As I use only one kind and can't tell if the others would be better or not, but my results are good.

I use First layer Pure Laterite where you mix laterite into the bottom 3rd of the gravel.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I'm gonna get a new 29g and make a planted tank soon, does anyone know about Onyx or Onyx Sand?

________________________________________________
I like Led Zeppelin.

Sorry, I don't know about onyx, but I'm another vote for flourite.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Sorry about the Onyx question. I thought it was a plant substrate 'cause it's from SeaChem, but it's not. It's just black.

So what are the pluses and minuses of Flourite and Eco-Complete(i.e. which has better iron, calcium, color)?

________________________________________________
I like Led Zeppelin.

Hi,
There are several sites on Substrates. I'll give you a few
at the end of this posting.
One of the primary purposes of substrate is to provide
a medium that plants can grow roots into and
anchor themselves.
To that end, to accomdate the variety of plants that "we"
put in our tanks, the substrate should be between three and
four inches deep. Some plants such as Swords have elaborate
root systems and need every bit that we can give them.
Others, such as the "carpet plants" (very short plants for
the foreground of tanks) generally have shallow root
systems and can get by with an inch to an inch and a half
in depth.

You can use nearly anything for a substrate as long as the
grain size is around 2-3mm.
You can use sand, potting soil, clay, peat, even unscented
kitty litter. There are specialized substrates such as
crushed coral, crushed limestone, crushed dolomite, and
crushed oyster shells as well.

The ones we use most often for plants are sand, and
aquarium gravel. This substrate is a form of silica and
its formula is SiO2. It is inert and offers nothing to
the plants except a place to anchor, and a breeding place
for the bacteria that changes ammonia to nitrite and
nitrite to nitrate. This bacteria is what the plants must
rely on to create the nutrients that they need to grow.
If you plan on a heavily planted tank and use only sand
or regular aquarium gravel at some point you will have to
provide the nutrients that plants need in various forms
of fertilizers.

To encourage plant growth several "speciality" forms of
substrates are used such as Onyx, "plant grow soil",
flourite and laterite. Some of these are clays that are
saturated with nutrients and are designed to leech the
nutrients into the tank in a slow release method.
Others, such as Laterite and Flourite, are actually
ancient clays (millions and millions of years old) that
are rich in iron and will leech iron (Fe) into the tank
slowly, over the life of the tank.

Laterite actually comes as a clay, and like any clay, when
wet, will turn the tank into really, really, muddy water.
To use laterite, you put a layer (1 - 1.5 inches thick)
down on the very bottom of the tank, and then "cap" it with
a layer of regular aquarium gravel. When cleaning you
use care to not disturb the clay layer or you will need a
filter such as a diatom filter to clean the water.
Flourite will cloud the water but it is clay that has been
fractionated (baked at very high temps) and then ground
into aquarium gravel size pieces. Again, a diatom filter
will clear the water of most tanks (depends upon size)
within an hour.
Both laterite and flourite are expensive. To get around the
expense, and eliminate the clouding Onyx was created.
However, its nearly as expensive as Flourite, and does not
last as long as flourite.
Another way to get around the expense of laterite and
Flourite, is to use a layer of UNSCENTED kitty litter.
It too is a clay, and has iron in it, not as concentrated,
but does have iron in it. Like laterite, it will turn the
tank into a disaster if you use only it, and so like
laterite, you put a layer down (1 - 1.5 inch thick) and
cap it with gravel or sand.

Here are a few sites for more reading:

http://home.infinet.net/teban/substrat.htm#peat

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/plant_substrates.php

And to determine how much substrate to purchase
here is a Substrate Calculator:

http://www.plantedtank.net/substratecalculator.html
Simply plug in the tank dimensions, and desired depth and
it will tell you how many pounds to purchase.

Hope this helps...
Frank



-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Thanks a ton. That helped a lot, but there wasn't anything on Eco-Complete. Do you know much about it?

________________________________________________
I like Led Zeppelin.

Hi,
I have not seen a paper written on the product.
Here is a link to sales pitch for it:

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=9087&cm_mmc=Shopping%20Portal-_-BizRate-_-Fish-_-Eco-Complete%20Planted%20Aquarium%20Substrate&GCID=C12188x002&ref=3474&subref=AA&ctt=62

Perhaps someone else who frequents other sites or reads
other magazines has seen an article involving this product
and can shed some more light on it.

My suggestion would be to write the manufacturer and ask
them for information on the product.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

I have used the Eco-complete- didnt like it. Eco complete is too fine and gets clogged with alot of debris. Plus, the water does not circulate to good through it and i had a major temp. difference between it and my water temp. I would only recomend this for tanks with very low stock loads with fish that appreciate its softness such as catfish and kuhli loaches. When i had it, plants such as sagitaria and water sprite did not form very many roots or decayed in it and soon died.
I have had Fluorite for almost a month now and it is a mix of reds, blacks, browns and a few other colors. I like it way better. My cryptocorynes also seem to be growing at least 5x's better in it. My Kuhli loaches dont seem to mind it either, their bellies are all smooth and unblemished and their barbels are all in tact and NOT reduced to short stubs as some people say fluorite does to cories/kuhlies
VOTED FOR: FLUORITE

OK, I'll get Flourite instead. I don't know much about washing gravel though, what would I have to do to prevent too much cloudiness, and what are some things to be expected?

________________________________________________
I like Led Zeppelin.

Hi,
When cleaning aquarium gravel, you normally put it in a
bucket and run a hose into it. While the bucket overflows,
you stir the gravel with your hand or something that won't
shred. Stirring the gravel brings the dust, dirt, and other
debris up into the water where it flows over the sides and
down the drain. When the run off is clear despite repeated
stirrings, then you turn off the water, drain the bucket,
and put the cleaned gravel into the tank.

With substrates such as fluorite, this routine "kinda"
goes out the window because the gravel is actually clay
that has been baked (fractionated) and then ground into
aquarium size gravel. In this case, the more you stir it,
the more you grind the pieces together, and the more dust
you create. So, with Fluorite, you do it lightly, and
when the runoff is clearer, then you turn off the water,
drain the bucket, and dump the substrate into the tank.

The "Trick" is when filling the tank, not to stir the
fluorite up with the hose. Let the hose run onto a plate
that you set on the gravel so the plate deflects the
waters' force and minimize the agitation.
The tank will cloud, but should clear, with the use of
your filter, in a while. For really, really fast clearing,
use a diatom filter. That will make the water crystal
clear in practically minutes.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

OK Thanks for that. I'm definitely going to get Flourite then, I don't know if I have a diatom filter.

________________________________________________
I like Led Zeppelin.

The tank will look like mud for about a day and then for a week it will have a dusty tinge. This is what i experienced.

One of the reasons I wanted Eco-Complete so bad is because I'm a huge fan of dark substrate(just thought I'd throw that out there).

________________________________________________
I like Led Zeppelin.

Would a 50% flourite/50% gravel mix or putting an inch of laterite under gravel be more beneficial?

(I am also looking for a good substrate for growing plants...not trying to hijack)

*Kristin*

bodangit,

If you prefer the look of a dark substrate than go with the eco complete. I'm currently using it in my 72g planted tank and one thing I could tell you is that my plants are growing. Eco-complete has a multi-size grain and over time the smaller pieces work there way to the bottom and the larger pieces stay on top which allows air to circulate to the roots. If you fertilize correctly the substrate really isn't as important in most cases since plants take most of the nutrients thru the leaves. The roots are there for anchoring purposes.

But eco complete is a quality product from a quality company. They did have a problem at one point with eco being corrupted but they bent over backwards to correct the problem and replaced customers eco with new eco if they recieved a bad batch.



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