FishProfiles.com Message Forums

I plan to setup a planted tank, i would like to learn more about substrates beyond just gravel. I have read many places where people use substrates that are full of nutrients.

Any suggestions as to what kind is good, and any further details about maintenance, and gravel cleaning.

†Aquapickle†

The two I've used are Eco-complete, and flourite. Of the two I like eco-complete the best. It doesn't make a cloudy mess any time you disturb it like flourite because it's not a clay based substrate. It also seems easier to physically put plants into the substrate so they stay there.

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Hi,
You should read the "star'd" article at the top of this
forum. It contains a wealth of information on planted
aquariums. As far as the substrate is concerned, you
might want to check out this site:
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/plant_substrates.php

Planted tanks should have a substrate thickness (depth)
of between 3 and 4 inches. Here is a substrate calculator
that will tell you how much to purchase:
http://www.plantedtank.net/substratecalculator.html

In the article at the top of the forum, there are a
series of books that are one of the best resources
for information. You will want to find them in the
local library, or purchase them for your own library.

Lastly, of course, ask here. Look through the various
"logs" that are here and from them you will get a wealth
of information, and ideas for your tank.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Ok, i will do some more reading around on the site. I have read through almost all of the recent logs on here, most i haven't read word for word, but just enough to have an idea of whats going on. I was just looking for any additional info. Two quick questions:

Does anyone ever use different layers of gravel?

And do you Clean sand, and these plant substrates just like regular gravel? ( With a siphon )

Thanks!


†Aquapickle†

I prefer eco complete. You treat it more like sand than gravel. Suck waste off the top and stir it. I just fill the tank with trumpet snails and they do the stirring for me. You can't vac down into it or you'll suck out all the substrate but it's heavier than most detritus so it all sits on the surface anyway. It doesn't need rinsing, looks more like soil than fake gravel, never clouds after the initial settling period, and it grows plants great. I have lots of what are usually classified as heavy root feeders and I've never used root tabs or had to replace any of the substrate. I did add some more since I only started with 1" worth in a 55g. Is somewhat expensive though and does compact more than gravel(needs more stirring) but not as much as most actual sand substrates.

Thanks for the help sham.

So i would use a siphon to get rid of any waste that sits of the surface of the substrate, without actually going into the substrate?

What exactly is the stirring part of it?
(Is that like keeping it from compacting too much?)

And would some type of shrimp be good for "stirring?"

Thanks Again All!

†Aquapickle†

Hi,
Generally speaking, unless you are creating a tank with
Laterite or another clay as the bottom layer, most
folks don't layer. The idea of layering is to keep the
clay particles trapped beneath the cap layer. This is
rarely successful as every time you uproot a plant for
what ever reason, you bring clay particles up into the
water colum where they will cause clouding of the water.
It can take months for the clay particles to settle out
or you can use a diatom filter and do it in a matter of
an hour or so.

When folks find out how expensive some of the plant
friendly substrates are, they frequently will mix them
50/50 with regular aquarium gravel. Not the best idea,
but some is better than none.

Sand as a cap layer can cause problems due to a couple of
things. First, because of the thickness of the layer, and
the small grain size, sand will compact over time
preventing and circulation. And, because of the small
grain size and small spaces between grains, the gaps are
easily clogged with detritus and bacteria film which also
chokes off circulation. In both cases, the lack of
circulation allows anaerobic areas to form that can be
toxic to both fish and plants. Keeping the sand stirred
up with catfish (corries) or MTS snails, is one way to
help prevent the problem, but neither animal gets really
deep, and that requires that you actually stir the sand
during water changes. Stirring the sand can cause
additional problems. Again, because of the small grain
size, the sand can become waterborne and get sucked into
filters where they can clog the filter or get into the
impeller section of the filter and grind up the impeller.

Sand, can be done, but it does present its own unique
set of problems.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Eco complete is different from sand mostly because it has a range of different sized pieces from sugar fine to small boulders. It has very few of the cons such as it will not compact as much and when stirred up it does not float into the water column or cloud the tank. It does require some stirring though to avoid anaerobic pockets. Even gravel requires some stirring but with gravel you usually stir it up when you shove the gravel vac down into it. With eco complete you'll suck up the finer pieces if you get the tube too close. Planted areas where you can't gravel vac will benefit from some stirring no matter the substrate. Shrimp and other surface dwelling critters will only stir maybe 1/2" down so in a planted tank with 3"+ you still need to do some yourself. Trumpet snails burrow down into the substrate several inches. Along the glass I've seen them over 3" down so they help keep it stirred up better than shrimp, cories, and other bottom dwellers.

Thanks for the help sham and Frank. That gives me a way better idea of how to maintain and use these substrates. I don't know about the prices and all, but i may give these a try. But does it make a big difference as compared to regular gravel?

†Aquapickle†

A difference yes but a big difference not really. You will probably get slightly better growth using a plant specific substrate and with plain gravel you might have to use root tabs or other fertilizer sticks for some plants but plenty of people have nice planted tanks using regular gravel.

Alright. Thanks for the help sham.

†Aquapickle†