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I'm still getting outbreaks of greyish thread algae on my plants. I think it's a form of BGA. It's really loose and falls apart when you touch it.

I did treat with e-mycin, major water changes, made sure my co2 (17-20 mg/l) and nitrate (20 mg/l) were at sufficient levels, but got another outbreak. My thinking now is it might be due to my lights being about 1 year old.

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tetratech

If they are good quality lights they should be OK for at least two years. I would be looking eleswhere to find the problem.

Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
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Still having issues ?

First the describtion of the algae is a bit tricky. You describe it as thread algae but think it may be BGA. How is it growing, in sheets or strands? I've never had BGA, thankfully, but as far as I know it spreads like a sheet.

What type of bulbs are you using ? PC bulbs don't fade as nioticably as normal flourescents and age is usually not an issue.
Either way I doubt it's the light that triggered the algae.

Your Co2 is good, 20-30ppm would be better, can you increase ? This would be the first place I'd look.

If I remember rightly you've started adding NO3, correct ? What about the phosphate ? If your Nitrate bottomed out chances are the phosphate did too. As I said before this could be the last piece of the jigsaw.

You know the levels to aim for regarding nutrients. Check and see which one is missing the target. I'd bet that increasing the Co2 and getting the phosphate to about 1ppm, while maintaining your other parameters will lick your problems.

As I said before since I started adding good amounts of NO3 and PO4 I've forgotten what algae looks like ! Don't be frightened of the nutrients, I've overdone the phosphate and gone up to 3-4ppm without any issues. High levels are not a problem as long as you have high levels of everything .

I know that statement goes against the grain of what 90% of people think they know of planted tanks. But remember a lot of peoples knowledge was garnered from out of date internet info. High levels of nutrients don't cause algae, a deficiency in one or more will.Algae can trive on amounts measured in the parts per billion, so why would they need high levels before they can start to grow ?

Focus your attention on growing plants and providing their needs, not eliminating algae, or trying to control nutrients to starve algae. It can't be done, the miniscule amounts that single cell algae require is beyond your or anyone elses control,instead take care of the plants.




Last edited by bensaf at 01-Aug-2005 21:56

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

bensaf

That sounds like excellent advice most tanks look after them selves once they settle down.
I have Algea in my Anubias tank who cares its food for the BNs and it looks very natural.

Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
VOTE NOW VOTE NOW

Keith,

I understand what you are saying. Even the best run tanks have some amount of algae, even Amano's. But at a level where it's almost invisible. In Europe for example certain algae is considered not only beneficial but can also be considered attractive. The more natural look you mention.

But I'd like to add a caveat so others don't mis - understand. I'm NOT saying ignore the algae and let it run rampant. Certain types can be a real pest and will seriously harm plants as well as looking plain ugly.

My point is that too many focus on eliminating and controlling algae and forget about the plants. As a result they fail on both counts. The approach to dealing with algae is usually in the form of adding chemicals to kill it or in the mistaken belief that reducing or eliminating one particular nutrient will kill/starve the algae. Neither method will work long term . Rather a focus on plant health instead of algae combatting is the way to go.

Give the plants all they need to grow healthy and strong is best method. Plants are much higher up the food chain and when growing well algae doesn't stand much of a chance, it just can't compete. It's that simple.

All those nice tanks we see on the internet, they are all pretty much algae free, right ? What else is noticeable about them ? They are all full of healthy plants !!!!!!. Sometimes we can't see the woods for the trees.

I've said it before keeping an attractive planted tank is deceptivly easy. We over complicate it sometimes.


Last edited by bensaf at 02-Aug-2005 02:20

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Give the plants all they need to grow healthy and strong is best method. Plants are much higher up the food chain and when growing well algae doesn't stand much of a chance, it just can't compete. It's that simple.

That's why I like plants so much. Give them a little TLC and they give you lots in return.

Look nice, control algae, consume waste products of fish, give the fish a place to hide and a happier home and give you years of enjoyment. What more could you ask for? They are the perfect aquarium inhabitants as long as you look after their needs.

I've said it before keeping an attractive planted tank is deceptivly easy. We over complicate it sometimes.

KISS seems to apply here - Keep It Simple Stupid

That's another great thing about planted aquaria, they can be as easy or as complicated as you make them/want them to be. It is really easy to have an attractive low tech tank, or if it suits you there are higher tech options that also work but will require more from you. All it takes is a bit of care and initial planning, then keeping up on maintenance. That's it.

Excellent post.

Thanks for all the advice, it all sounds very "sound".
I'm glad no one thinks it's the lights. I have a current USA CF fixture with two 96watt bulbs that about a year old.

Anyway, I think one of my add'l complications is that my tank is setup with rock and driftwood not plants shoulder to shoulder which I think gives the algae a better chance to get a hold. I'm definitely more into the "Amano" look as opposed to the "Dutch".

Bensaf
I'll try to take a picture to show the "algae" it is so loose that when you touch it breaks apart into the water column. It's greyish color and grows in long strands off the edges of the plant leaves.

My Scapes

Well the good news is it certainly doesn't sound like BGA.

I think I've seen similar in a friends tank, growing in thick ugly strands on the edges of Vals and swords.

Again assuming I remember correctly that your adding Kno3 and micros, that just leaves the Co2 and Po4.That's were I'd look. Get those 2 in line with your others levels and you should be sound.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Bensaf,

As you mentioned that only thing I'm not dosing is po4. I guess I felt that I was getting adequate amounts thru fish food, water changes, etc.

Just curious, what is your water change schedule and do you gravel wash your planted tank?

Last edited by tetratech at 02-Aug-2005 12:24

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As you mentioned that only thing I'm not dosing is po4. I guess I felt that I was getting adequate amounts thru fish food, water changes, etc.

Just curious, what is your water change schedule and do you gravel wash your planted tank?

As I said earlier if you needed to add N03 (which I seem to remember you did) chances are that the PO4 may have bottomed out too. You can always confirm it by testing with a phosphate kit. But if you are going to add, micros, No3,Co2 well go the whole hog and add the Po4 also. High levels is less problematic then none or low levels. A bottomed out nutrient causes algae, a high level can be reduced with water changes. A water change is better then algae any day.

My water change schedule is 50% per week on the Co2 injected tank. This is not for plant health per se. Using the Estimative Index method is very simple. Put in a lot of ferts thereby ensuring there is plenty of everything the plants need. The 50% WC is a safety valve ensuring nothing builds up and basically re-setting the tank each week and starting with ferts again. The beauty of the method is that it can be tweaked to fit individual preferences. If you're lazy like me just dump in the ferts and reset with the big WC. If you're sure the plants are consuming the ferts and nothing is building up you can reduce the amount of water changed. If you want to micro manage and test different parameters regularly and just dose enough to bring to desired level well you can do that also, again with smaller water changes.
My own schedule for a 65 gallon is:
Sunday: 50% WC, add 1/3-1/2 teaspoon KNO3, 1/8 tspn KH2PO4, 1/2 tspn Potassium Sulphate (optional)
Mon: 15ml Tropica Master Grow
Tues: add 1/3-1/2 teaspoon KNO3, 1/8 tspn KH2PO4
Weds:15ml Tropica Master Grow
Thurs:add 1/3-1/2 teaspoon KNO3, 1/8 tspn KH2PO4
Fri:15ml Tropica Master Grow
Sat: Rest day.
As you can see it's very simple, WC add back macros, next day micros, next day macros etc. One day rest. Dosing ferts takes about 30 seconds a day. Doesn't get any easier. Never touch test kits anymore. I only add the potassium sulphate for 1 day as the KNO3, KH2PO4 and TMG all contain potassium, actually the P.Sulphate could quite easily be dropped without problems, I just like to keep the Potassium high.
Dosages can be reduced if the plant bio mass is not so big. The key is making sure everything is available and nothing bottoms out. You'd have to seriously overdose before you have issues, even then it would be in the form of toxicity rather then algae.
My non Co2 tank just gets small weekly doses and no water changes.

It's pretty much impossible to gravel vac in my tank as it's so heavily planted. I just swirl it around section by section stirring up what I can then suck it up. Mulm is good for plants,probably better then root tabs (which I never use) so it's not an issue.

Keep up on basic good housekeeping though. If uprooting plants or hardscape, give a vac in that area while it's exposed even if it's not water change time. Remove floating dead leaves etc immediately. Clean glass and prune just before your regular water change so you can suck out anything you dislodged into the water column. It's a good idea to give everything a good going over once a year.

Lights 2-3 wpg, Co2 20-30ppm, Gh 3+, plenty of plants and above fert regime (vary dosage according to tank size and plant bio mass) will allow you to grow pretty much anything with very very few issues and relatively little work.It's that simple.

Last edited by bensaf at 02-Aug-2005 22:00

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Thanks for that inside look, I really appreciate it. Maybe larger water changes is something I should consider. Right now I'm doing 20%/weekly, sometimes alittle more if I'm fooling around with the tank and things get stirred up I do suck up the mess. Belive it or not one of my large maintaince issues on this tank is the java moss. It's always getting weighted down, by brownish (diatoms I think). The other plants inspite of this greyish stuff still grow great.

Another question, I have a considerable amount of dark driftwood in my tank. Should this be removed from time to time to clean (wood and underlying area)?

My Scapes

It could be just the moss is full of gunk. It does collect a lot of rubbish especially when used as ground cover.It'll get trapped in the moss on it's way to the filter intake.

The driftwood would be the kind of thing I'd do on a yearly overhaul/clean up.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

You could be right. I have two very large angels in this tank along with 5 dwarf plecos that create alot of waste.

I forget, how fish heavy is your tank? I'm wondering if this brown stuff is simply waste, food, etc. By the way I'am a very conservative feeder, feeding twice a day very small amounts. I made myself a promise that my Angels will be out of the tank this month. There simply two big for the setup.

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My tank is very fish heavy. Overstocked (but still no Nitrates unless I addby about 30%. But you be surprised at how much gunk builds up. Bits of leaves float around and dis-integrate etc. Snails if you have any can be surprisingly messy. All this kind of stuff can end up trapped in the moss. I have quite a bit of moss tied to wood and rocks, same with Riccia, and it just collects dirt. It gets trapped in ther and the only way I can really clean it is to take it out and rinse under a tap - not something you can do with groundcover !

I don't feed much either, lightly twice a day, but a varied diet - 2 0r 3 different flakes, bloodworm, tubifex, FD shrimp, veggies.

I unwittingly took part in an experiment that proves all the above waffle.
I just got back from a trip home to Europe. I had to leave quickly and was away for 2 weeks. I had time to stick on an auto feeder for the fish, but no way of adding ferts while I was away. So lights were on usual timer and Co2 running 24/7 as usual but no dosing done for 2 weeks.
Came back to a mess The plants looked terrible, especially the stems. There was a good bit of algae, not huge amounts, but definately more then I'm used to seeing. The stem plants suffered real bad, and my Rotala Macacranda was beyond saving, all had lost their bottom half leaves.Glass was filthy and covered in green spots. Water old and yellow looking from all the floating rotting leaves.
I tested the water, pretty much everything had bottomed out, N,P, and Fe all read zero !. The plants had begun to cannibalise themselves in search of nutrients ! When short of N plants will move the limited supply from old growth to new growth, hence the ragged bottoms. Even hardy plants like the anubias showed signs with some old leaves having turned yellow (a sure sign of N deficiency). Algae was able to scrounge the miniscule amount they need.

The good news was that I was able to whip the tank back into shape surprisingly quickly. Cleaned the glass, pruned of the worst of the algae, replanted the healthy tops and dosed enough macros to get levels back up to where they should be, big water change and some AC to get rid of the yellow color.
Within a few days everything has come back very well. Stems are back to normal healthy growth. Algae pretty much gone. Pearling is heavier then I've ever seen so plants seem to be driving themselves like a starving man at a buffet.It surprised me how easy it was to whip everything back in line.
Turned out to be a valuable lesson, and a real confidence booster, as to why a tank can go sour and that it's so easy to get it back on track again.
Proof, if it were needed, that a shortage of nutrients is going to cause far more problems then an excess of nutrients will, despite the old wives tales of high Nitrates and Phosphate being the root of all algae evil.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Thanks for all the info and sharing your experience. I would like to get a phosphate test kit initally just to see what's in my tap. I think part of my problem is I need to up my water change from 20% t 33%.



My Scapes