AquaRank.com

FishProfiles.com Message Forums

faq | etiquette | register | my account | search | mailbox
# FishProfiles.com Message Forums
L# Freshwater Aquaria
 L# Planted Aquaria
  L# Help a newbie with his next step.
 Post Reply  New Topic
SubscribeHelp a newbie with his next step.
Grumley
-----
Fingerling
Posts: 24
Votes: 0
Registered: 19-Dec-2003
male
I've been keeping fish for about a year and a half. In the last month I decided to jump into live plants and read a lot before going the live plant route.

I'm trying to accomplish this on a low budget.

I have a 55g tank.
Substrate is standard aquarium gravel with crushed coral. (I inherited the tank from a cichlid enthusiast)

Lighting is 2 dual 48" shop lights at 6700K at 160W total ~ 3WPG.

I'm using DIY CO2 with approx 20 bubbles/min with an internal DIY reactor.

Plants are plenty of hornwort, java moss on driftwood, annubias, and a couple of amazon swords. The hornwort is doing great. I've already divided it and have double the amount. The swords are average. Some leaves are yellowing but some new shoots have started. (I've only had them 10 days so I'm wondering if it may be some transplant shock.)

Fish load is 16 tetras, 2 Angels, 2 Gouramis, 2 Corys and 1 BN pleco.

I'm starting to find algae becoming a problem. It's not major, but I do have to watch it and clean the glass once a week and I'm finding hair algae on the swords and what I think is BBA on the edges of the annubias.

From what I read, I think this is a lack of nitrates. Am I correct on this?

I'm thinking of mixing in a box of First layer laterite since the package says it's good for a 55g tank but what is the solution to combating the algae? Do I increase the fish load?

I do 40% water changes with gravel vacs biweekly.
I have 1 HOB filter and 1 Canister filter that get serviced on alternating biweekly cycles.

Thanks for your suggestions.

Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:45Profile PM Edit Report 
Babelfish
 
**********
---------------
---------------
---------------
Administrator
Small Fry with Ketchup
Posts: 6833
Kudos: 8324
Votes: 1570
Registered: 17-Apr-2003
female australia us-maryland
Lack of nitrAtes is easy to detect...with a nitrAte test .

However my experience with low nitrAte tanks is not what you're experiencing.

Your plant stock list doesnt' contain any fast growing plants (other than hornwort). I'd suggest something like Water wisteria Hygrophila difformis.
Adding the laterite, or using florite, or any of the plant substrates will help, especially if you get into plants that are more root intensive.
IMO you're doing too large of a water change @a time. If you must do that large a volume do it as 10% daily rather than 40% @a time. Also make sure that the water level is as high as possible to reduce the surface agitation caused by the HOB filter, and remove any carbon.

^_^

Current [link=Contest Rules]http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/forums/Aquascaping/44382.html?200412022138" style="COLOR: #EB4288[/link]
[/font]

Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:45Profile Homepage AIM MSN PM Edit Delete Report 
Grumley
-----
Fingerling
Posts: 24
Votes: 0
Registered: 19-Dec-2003
male
The water changes were a carry-over from when I had plastic plants and I did 40% every week. I figured that since plants were using the nitrates, I could relax on the water changes a bit. Should I be ok at 10% weekly? I do have the level of the water right at the top so that the only agitation is coming from my aquaclear HOB filter.

I have stayed away from the root plants to begin because of the lack of an iron-rich substrate. I tried a floating water sprite when I began and it went brown and died fairly quickly. I wonder if it is because the top of the aquarium is completely covered with glass and the space between the glass and the water is less than 1/4".

Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:45Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
wayneta
 
**********
---------------
-----
Mega Fish
Posts: 1264
Kudos: 236
Votes: 9
Registered: 12-Feb-2001
male usa us-newyork
>>>Substrate is standard aquarium gravel with crushed coral.<<<
The coral raises your water hardness and pH. Some aquatic plants such as valisneria can make use of the calcium, but many plants do not.
The leached calcium will probably not kill your plants, but they won't 100% thrive either.
You are attemptong to counteract with CO2 supplementation, but DIY units are usually only effective with 20g and smaller tanks. I've had a dual-bottle DIY set up on a 55g and the observed results have been nominal. On the 20g, results have been quite satisfactory. However, there are too many factors to consider when making such comparisons.
All I can suggest is to measure pH and KH, observe growth over time, then decide what actions, if any, you should make.

You are supplying ample lighting. You did not supply much detail about your tanks, so not seeing/knowing your tanks, I can only make a guess. The light intensity you are supplying may be causing an imbalance in total nutrient availability. The excess is free to the lower forms of plant life (algae) which is causing it to proliferate. Balancing the total nutrient, or removing to free nutrient, should inhibit algae growth.

Easier said than done.

You might consider reducing the intensity (remove or cover one of the bulbs), or increasing your plantings. Stem plants (i.e. hornwort) are typically fast growers, and it's common to start with fast-growing stem plants then slowly transition to the slower growing 'target' plants after the tank matures/settles.
Your report indicates that the hornwort has plenty of available free nutrient and is thus flourishing. More stem plants will absorb more free nutirents.
Anubias is slow-growing, and it's common for them to get covered in algae.
Amazon sword is a root feeder. Older leaves dying, but newer leaves growing is common to transplants. The newer leaves are 'in balance' with their environment. The older leaves aren't, and thus wilt away. As long as it's growing new leaves, I wouln't worry. Does that make sense?

Excess algae growth can also be combated by adding an algea-cleaning crew (i.e. pl*cos, ottos, amano shrimp, etc.).

>>>I'm thinking of mixing in a box of First layer laterite<<<
I stongly recommend against doing this! This type of Laterite MUST be used in the bottom layer of the substrate. Overwise, it will readily cloud the water anytime it's disturbed. That's why it's called 'First layer'. If you plan to drain the tank, remove the existing gravel, then add laterite, then gravel over that (or layer it with your substrate of choice), that would be the proper method of integrating laterite into the tank.
Another substrate containing free iron is Flourite. It does not cloud (when proper rinsed before adding) and is used as a top layer (or mixed with your existing gravel). For you, the best steps to take would be a THOROUGH deep gravel vac to remove as much detrius as possible, scoop out around 1/2 to 3/4s existing gravel, and add the flourite. You can optionally mix back in some of the old gravel with the flourite, since it's already populated with beneficial bacteria. It dosen't sound like you have a terribly large bioload, but you don't specify the species sizes. So, your tank may or may not mini-cycle. To be safe, I'd monitor it (readings) for a few weeks to be sure. If ammonia,nitrite readings rise, perform water changes to dilute the concentrations to acceptable (less toxic)levels. Though this action increases time-to-cycle, it reduces toxicity exposure to your bioload.

-Wayne
Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:45Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Grumley
-----
Fingerling
Posts: 24
Votes: 0
Registered: 19-Dec-2003
male
Thanks for the replies and suggestions. Prior to Wayne's reply, I went out and had purchased and installed the first layer into my tank. I also increased the DIY CO2 to a double bottle system and added in a second BN pleco.

I reduced the light duration from 12hrs to 11.25hrs. The algae has cleared up nicely. I have a few strands of fuzz algae on my swords but they have come back fairly well.

I've added in some Egeria Densa and some Shinnersia Rivalis to go along with the existing hornwort, swords, java moss and annubias.

The only test kit that I have at the moment is for nitrates. The nitrate reading is at less than 5ppm.

I've based what I've done from the "Aquarium Plants On a Student Budget" write-up. I'm wondering if when I go to add more difficult plants that are more heavy root feeders, I should look into some sort of root tabs - or as the aformentioned website says - liliponds tablets.
Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:45Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Bob Wesolowski
----------
Mega Fish
Posts: 1379
Kudos: 1462
Registered: 14-Oct-2004
male usa
I would let your plants tell you when to begin dosing ferts. You have the choice of liquid dosing and tab dosing. If you decide to liquid dose, you should eliminate using charcoal in your filters.

Plant ferts can be reasonably expensive but their are a number of home made ferts that can be put together reasonably inexpensively. Here is a PMDD recipe from Cathy Hartland:

PMDD PRIMER WHAT IS THIS PMDD STUFF ANYWAY?

The concept of PMDD comes from the Sears/Conlin paper in which it was determined that in planted aquaria which have an excess of all plant nutrients BUT with limited phosphate, plants are able to outcompete algae. This results is healthy plants and little or no algae in the tank. The name PMDD is short for "Poor Man's Dupla Drops", a reference to an inexpensive homemade nutrient program. The beauty of PMDD is that it can be tailored to the needs of each specific aquarium. It can be mixed to contain any or all required nutrients.

WHAT IS IN PMDD?

2 Teaspoons (~14g) K2SO4 (potassium sulfate)
1 Teaspoon (~6g) KNO3 (potassium nitrate)
2.5 Tablespoons (~33g) MgSO4-7H2O (fully hydrated magnesium sulfate, aka epsom salts; omit if present in trace element mix)
1 Tablespoon (~9g) Chelated Trace Element Mix (7% Fe, 1.3% B, 2% Mn, 0.06% Mo, 0.4% Zn, 0.1% Cu, EDTA, DTPA)
300 ml (1.5 cups) distilled H2O

WHERE DO I GET ALL THIS STUFF?

Potassium sulfate is sold as All Green in garden centers. It can also be ordered through pharmacies. An alternate source of potassium is Seachem's Potassium. Another choice is KCl, sold as muriate of potash in hardware stores.

Potassium nitrate is sold as stump remover in garden centers.
Magnesium sulfate can be found in grocery and drug stores as Epsom salts.

Chelated Trace Element Mix can be ordered from hydroponics shops or garden centers.

WHAT DO I DO WITH ALL THESE COMPOUNDS WHEN I HAVE THEM?

There are several options here.
1) Mix them all together according to the recipe. Shake well. Keep in the refrigerator.
2) Mix everything except the chelated trace element mix. Instead of using CTEM, use a commercial preparation which contains iron and trace elements, such as Seachem's Flourish, Schoeler's Natural Gold, Tropica Mastergrow, or Kent Plant Supplement. Add this separately from the PMDD.
3) Make separate solutions of everything so that you can dose only what you need. Have one container with only K2SO4, one with KNO3, one with MgSO4 and trace elements. Or use any other combination which suits your needs.

OK, EVERYTHING'S MIXED, NOW WHAT AND HOW MUCH DO I ADD TO MY AQUARIUM?

This is where you have to observe your own tank and make decisions relevant to your own situation. If you've mixed the PMDD all together, start by dosing small amounts - say, a few drops per 10 gal, every few days or daily. Observe the plants, keep an eye on nitrate and iron levels, and watch for increased algae growth. You want to maintain about 0.1 ppm of iron and 5-10 ppm of nitrates in the water. If algae growth is increasing, cut back the dosage. If no algae is forthcoming, increase the dosage. By trial and error, you will discover what works in your tank.

If you mix up separate solutions, determine what your tank needs. Are nitrate levels where you want them, but plant growth is slow? Try adding just potassium. Is new growth looking mushy and transparent? Might want to add iron and trace elements. Are new leaves yellowish except for green veins? Magnesium may help. Are plants growing only slowly, and nitrates are at zero? Add that KNO3 and watch the bubbling begin as plants kick into high gear.

THIS STUFF ISN'T SO GREAT - MY PLANTS STILL AREN'T GROWING

Are you sure you've supplied everything? Is lighting sufficiently intense for your plant choices, of good spectrum for plants, and for a long enough photoperiod? Are you giving root plants such as swords and crypts and aponogetons some root fertilization? If your light levels are at 2 wpg or greater, are you supplying CO2?

HEY, MY TANK LOOKS LIKE A BUBBLING CHAMPAGNE GLASS!

__________
"To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research."
researched from Steven Wright
Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:45Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Grumley
-----
Fingerling
Posts: 24
Votes: 0
Registered: 19-Dec-2003
male
Add that KNO3 and watch the bubbling begin as plants kick into high gear


I actually was wondering about this. I've noticed a thin stream of bubbles rising from my Amazon Swords and my Densa plants. I figured that this is a good sign and I'm assuming that they are releasing oxygen. Am I correct on this?

BTW, I have read up on the PMDD drops and I am considering going down that route. I'm just not a big fan of dosing the tank as opposed to looking for an alternative that would allow me to help it along on a monthly basis such as root tabs. It just feels more stable to me compared to a daily or more frequent dosing regimen.

Last edited by Grumley at 15-Feb-2005 22:12
Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:45Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Post Reply  New Topic
Jump to: 

The views expressed on this page are the implied opinions of their respective authors.
Under no circumstances do the comments on this page represent the opinions of the staff of FishProfiles.com.

FishProfiles.com Forums, version 11.0
Mazeguy Smilies