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LF,

I knew I forgot something! I would try adding some fert tabs around your cryps LF. They just might need a boost. In my tank with the Flourite I got mine at about 4 inches and it turned into a basketball with in a few months.


55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Okay, I'm doing some plant shopping today and I need major advice!! I'm looking at the E. tennelus that we were talking about and I see that it comes like one little plant at a whack....how many would I need to get a decent foreground cover going in this 55 gallon tank? It's like $2.49 per plant, but I just don't know how many I should start with.

Frankly, I know what plants I want, and basically where I want to put them....I'm just a little stumped as to how many of each plant species it is that I want to purchase. HELP!!!!

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~~Melissa~~
"Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder."

Melissa,

I assume you do online shopping, right? Throw us the website you go to and tell us the plants that you want to get. Also, list all plants that you will get somewhere else, if that applies.

About the tenellus: they often come potted and consist of maybe 4 to 6 plants, bunched rather closely together. When I got mine (all my tenellus in my 3 tanks are derived from this order) I purchased 3 of these pots, separated the plantlets and placed themin the tank with some gaps in between. Show us the picture (link) to the ones you saw.

Ingo

EDIT: You got all your hardscape (wood/rocks)?

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Ingo, yes I'm online shopping....here's the link to my favorite plant site: http://aquariumgarden.com/index.php

I have had the best luck with their plants so far. My list is narrowing a little here's the bulk of it:

~Hygro
~Moneywort and Bacopa carolinnia
~Wistera
~E. tenellus
~Mayaca
~water sprite
~Foxtail

I will get the crypts and annubias later to fill in

I am going to my LFs today to get the wood....haven't planned on rocks. What rocks can I get that won't add to my water hardness or up the pH?

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~~Melissa~~
"Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder."

~Hygro - which one? Giant Hygro? My new favorite Hygro is angustifolia
~Wistera - OK
~E. tenellus - OK
~Mayaca - I think I mentioned this before, you mean Mayaca fluviatilis, right? And I think to have mentioned that this one may need more light to be pretty.
~Foxtail - is Myriophyllum, right? Eh, not my type. It's dense structure causes all kinds of gunk to be collected in the leaves.

I was thinking about rocks that a) help you with holding the wood in place and b) serve as bases for the Anubias (in the future). Also, a base of rock under branchy driftwood looks very nice. All rocks that don't sizzle when sprinkled with vinegar should be fine, I think. Although I don't have it, granite would be my favorite .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

The foxtail would mainly serve to absorb ammonia and nitrite in cycling the tank as per the no cycle planted tank article....it would probably be removed later. I love my Giant Hygro in my 29, but I might check into the Hygro you mentioned. Did you go to that link and see the E. tenellus? How many should I order?

I'll check around for rocks....I doubt if they will let me sprinkle vinegar on them in the LFS.

Check out this piece of driftwood and tell me what you think...I put a ruler next to it for perspective...if you can't see the numbers in the pic it is 22 inches long. I put it into a 55 at the store (same dimensions as mine) and it looked pretty darn good centered. I'm envisioning some tall plants behind it and coming around to either side of it and med. to low plants in the front. Here's the wood:

Attached Image:

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~~Melissa~~
"Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder."

Melissa,

Last things first: The Wood - nah, doesn't rock my boat .
Seriously, having this thing flat in your tank would mean that it would be soon consumed by the plants. Also, it doesn't create the impression of height and three-dimensionality (if that is a word ). Have you looks into my 125G log in a while? Now there is what I mean. Check it out!

The Tenellus looks odd. The only way that this is tenellus is if it is an emersed grown plant. In this case, it will lose all its leaves. Somehow the whole picture seems to be wrong. The plant usually has a center from which all leaves sprout - the picture seems like to show some odd collection of leaves that grow from various spots. Here is a picture of the tenellus in my 29G. It is the bright green colored plant filling the right side. Also, check the wood, not flat but producing height. I know it is not the prettiest tank, but you get the point:

Attached Image:

Tenellus and Driftwood

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Okay, the pic of the DW was misleading, let me take another one level...that pic was from the top down to convey lenght. He's a level pic. From the table that it's sitting on to the highest point it is 10", so it's pretty tall the way I will be setting it in my tank.

Thet E. Tenellus looks no good eh? I guess I'll get it at your site...aquariumplants.com right? I'm checking there too.

Level pic of DW:

Attached Image:

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~~Melissa~~
"Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder."

Well let me warn you right now that LF probably isn't going to like it but I think its pretty nice. I am a fan of thicker wilder pieces. LF, Well he like sticks...

Edit: I was too slow!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

LOL...Wings. Hehehe I couldn't find any sticks at the LFS....I hav esome in my yard though.

The pics are really tough to judge this particular piece...'course, it would probably help if I had something more sophisticated than my cell phone camera with me...oh well.

This is gettting complicated. I've never order from aquarium plants.com, but if y'all plant gurus do and get good plants...then so I can I.

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~~Melissa~~
"Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder."

Melissa,

My Tenellus was from the LFS, I bought it over a year ago when I didn't even know about online plant orders.

10" heh ? I don't like it (just like Wings guessed it). Too much volume for too little impact. I don't know if you know that, but it took me months to find the right one, and without NowherMan6 I still wouldn't have it.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

...Okay, now I get it. I really think a twig would get lost in my tank. You should see the chunks in my 29 I really think this is the piece for me, I'm going to pop it into the tank when I get home and snap a pic with the bigger camera, of course, I won't be able to post it until tomorrow.

There is no way I'm going to find E. tennelus at any LFS around here....they barely even have aquarium plants. I need to find some decent stuff online or give up.

This is a PITA....heck give me some crushed coral and some rocks and I'll do a Malawi tank.....

No.....I'm still hanging in there....barely.

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~~Melissa~~
"Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder."

i have to say that although i enjoy having a big chunk of wood in my tank ( ) that it very much limits what you can plant in there. what you have is perfect for plants, imho, because you can still work around it. what i have is terrible for plants because there's no way to place it that will not block some large section of tank

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"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman

Agreed, I checked it in a 55 before I left the LFS with it and it leaves plenty of room for plants all around. I just need to figure if I'm going to put it in the middle and plant around it or put it towrd one end or the other and plant assymetrically.

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~~Melissa~~
"Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder."

Melissa,

Too small, too small
Too few, too few



Look at early pictures in my 125G log. There you see loads of Rock hardscape. Then follow throught the thread and you will see that within weeks all became invisible and consumed by the plants.

Also, let's talk about the scape itself. Centering a focus point in a tank can work, but usually it is prefered to offset the center by a rule somewhat like this:
Divide the tank length by 2.6 and place the focus center where 1 (or 1.6 - is the same, just from the other side) is. Example: tank lenght is 26", divided by 2.6 = 10" - that is the focus, meaning 10" in from the left or right.
Usually, this makes a tank appear more harmonic than a middle focus.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Ingo, I won't let my plants drown out my DW. I'll keep it clear around it. Okay, my tank is 48" long so 48/2.6 = 18.46, so I'll measure roughly 18 1/2 inches from either end and park it there. I might even add another piece later, the LFS was low on their DW...they said that they have trouble keeping it....folks come in and snatch it up.

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~~Melissa~~
"Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder."

Okay, check this out and tell me if this CO2 scheme will work, I have just purchased the Red Sea Turbo CO2 Bio System Link:
[link]http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=14711&inm=1&N=2004+113779+2035 [/link]

rated for a 40 gallon tank to be added to my Nutrafin CO2 system rated for tanks up to 20 gallons. I figure with 2 DIY CO2 systems rated for a total of 60 gallons I should be good to go on CO2 am I correct??? Give me some tips on where to place each of the do-dads that diffuse the CO2. The Red Sea system says to place just above the substrate, but the Nutrafin just says to keep away from major surface turbulence, but wouldn't that little ladder thing be better off closer to the bottom? How far away from the filter input/outflow do I need to put them.....or should I worry about this? Any and all help and advice appreciated.

I was also thinking that maybe I could bypass that little ladder deal on the Nutrafin system and use a "t" splitter and hook both CO2 cannister to the Venturi diffuser. What so y'all think?

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~~Melissa~~
"Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder."

Melissa,

I did never have either one of the 2 products that you have in house now, but here are some general things that I believe to remember having heard about them (see how vague I am? ):

- The Red Sea Turbo CO2 Bio System is supposed to be a glorified DIY system, with the exception that the venturi is pretty good
- The Nutrafin CO2 system is also supposed to be a glorified DIY system, with the exception that the ladder is pretty good.

How to hook up these two into one is beyond me, including if you would gain anything.

In general, what the community is most of the time saying is that tanks over 40G are better off using a pressurized CO2 system as all others seem to be not sufficient. Except if you want to hange 6 2l bottles of DIY on the tank (or something like that).

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Ingo, thanks for your input. I'm just thinking that I would give these two systems a shot along with supplemented Excel whilst I'm saving money to invest in a pressurized system.

I figure it's probably better than nothing right? After I do get the pressurized system, I can move one of these over to my 29 and upgrade the light there...no money wasted.

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~~Melissa~~
"Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder."

I figure it's probably better than nothing right?

I don't know

have you ever used the Hagen ladder or is that one new as well? You are familiar with the fluctuation of the desired CO2 output on these systems, meaning lower CO2 on startup and during the burnout phases of the load. Plus (I think) a max full throttle duration of 1 to 2 weeks.

So, if this would be true, and only then, I actually would think that a tank with fluctuating CO2 values would be off worse than a stable one with lower CO2. But maybe you could balance this out with dynamic Excel addition, more when output is lower and less when output is optimal.

Again, I never used either or, so better advice may be given by actual users of these systems.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Never used either system. This is all brand new. Good thing my LFS carries refill for the Nutrafin. I'll have to get them to order refills for the other. I will keep the Excel addition regular and constant. It won't be long before I can get the pressurized system...I've just had a couple of unexpected bills pop up on me in the last couple of months. How much do the typical bottles run for the pressurized and how big of a bottle should I get? I know that you just refill them once the CO2 is gone right?

I'm ordering some plant on Friday (payday!!)

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~~Melissa~~
"Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder."

How much do the typical bottles run for the pressurized and how big of a bottle should I get?

The cost of the bottle heavily depends on your area. tetratech, who lives only about 40 miles from me, gets it for $20 less and his refills are $10. I payed for my full bottle (his is nice and shiny silver, mine is gray) $100 and $20 for each refill. This would be for the 5 liter bottle, which would also be the one I would recommend to you. BUT - make sure you can store it upright in the stand - remember, you wanted to measure its height.

I know that you just refill them once the CO2 is gone right?

Right, but make sure your provider (usually a welding supply store) does that for you.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Oh yeah, I forgot to measure!!

We have a welding supply store just down the street where a guy I know that does planted tanks gets his CO2 bottle refilled. I'll ask him how much his set-up cost. Okay, I'll provide mesurements after lunch.

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~~Melissa~~
"Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder."

i have a 5lb bottle you can have for free if you can make the trip up to austin

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"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman

Now that sounds like a deal that I can't refuse! I love Austin.....now to get some time off from work.

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~~Melissa~~
"Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder."

from what you've said it sounds like they won't miss you for a day or two

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"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman

Now moondog,

You got Melissa so excited about your offer that she probably forgot to measure the cabinet height yet again

Well, getting a free 5l bottle is always a good thing. But before you drive up there (how long is that trip? ) make sure that your "Refiller" takes bottles from a different place. My provider does not take my bottle and refills it, he replaces it with a full bottle (and that is where you may have a problem with giving him one that he didn't sell you). This process has the distinct advantage that I am in and out of the store in no time and I can hook up the bottle again quickly.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

that seems strange to me. the place i used to go would replace the bottle, no questions asked. and if you paid cash, they gave you the same price no matter what size bottle you brought in. but you couldn't get a 20lb bottle in exchange for 5lb of course

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"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman

Better save than sorry, right?

I mean, that's nothing that a call couldn't fix.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Dang, busted. Yes, I forgot to measure the stupid cabinet....again. That will be the FIRST thing I do when I walk in the door from work tonight.

I just got off the phone with the local CO2 tank refiller and they said no problem...they will refill that 5 lb. tank that Moodog said he would give me, so, I'm all set there. They said that they might have to test it if it's out of test date, but the refill, with tax and all, will run around $15. Not too bad.

Ingo, Austin is about a 5 hour drive from here. Considering it's Texas we're talking about 5 hours is nada. I need a vaction anyway.

Moondog, I'm making my plans for this summer after school is out...gotta wait until the young-un isn't going to school you know.

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~~Melissa~~
"Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder."

$15 sounds like a lot to me, but i know i was probably spoiled i got my 20lb replaced like that for $5 cash in wisconsin, but considering i got the original for free i can't complain about it too much

well, i'll be gone that week i told you about in june, but my summer is pretty wide open besides that. so come on up any time

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"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman

Hi,
$15 each, is what I paid here in the Denver area to have
my bottles hydrostatically tested. They are then rated
as safe for five years when they must be tested again.
My refills cost $9 and some change (tax).

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Sounds good! Okay I have those measurements. I have 18.5 inches to play with under my tank will that bottle and all the do-dads fit in that space?

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~~Melissa~~
"Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder."

Hi,
Depending upon the manufacturer and model of the regulator,
you should be able to fit it in. Mine takes 19 inches but
then I have the gages set slightly askew so I can see them
from a different angle.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Melissa,

My setup (as seen on page two of your thread) is about 18" tall, with the highest point being the top of the bubble counter.

So, 18 1/2 may be tight but seems feasible as a bubble counter does not have to be perfectly straight and could lean a little. In the worst case, aquariumplants.com makes a new and improved regulator that is much lower in profile, but $$$.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Well, the 18.5 is from the floor of the cabinet to the top edge of the cabinet. I have some space to play with since my tank stand is away from the wall about 6 or 7 inches to fit my HOB. I can lean the CO2 tank up against the wall...still have it out of sight and let the regulator stick out, I think it will work.

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~~Melissa~~
"Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder."

ummm...will it work?

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~~Melissa~~
"Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder."

Hi,
"leaning" the tank frankly scares the heck out of me.
I've see tanks fall over, snap off a fitting, and become
rockets that punched through military aircraft hanger
walls.

You have to handle these things with care. They contain
compressed gas and are dangerous. That is why the
government requires periodic testing for safety. Always
handle these things carefully and be sure that they cannot
be tipped over by some accident or a pet exploring.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Yikes... That's no bueno!!!

What is the diameter of a 5 lb bottle? I could put it on the floor behind my tank if it's not too big around. That would net me several more inches of height. Anyone konw tha diameter?

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~~Melissa~~
"Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder."

Hi Red,
The diameter of my bottle is roughly 5 inches.
Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

the bottle i have is exactly 18 inches tall and about 5 inches diameter. i would expect almost every single 5lb bottle to be roughly the same dimensions.

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"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman

Melissa,

Did you ever decide on a CO2 method? Are you going to try the non-pressurized kinds?

I would love to know how that works out. I just got another 55g that I am going to plant. I was seriously considering a pressurized system, but I'm getting a new (used) car that I have to help pay for (with my part-time job salary...oh yeah), so there won't be much money left over to get a pressurized setup. It sucks being a poor college kid.

Let me know how that works out for you.

And show us some pictures when you get the tank planted!

*Kristin*