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55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
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AWOL's on the money, plants are very efficient consumers of ammonIUM.

Anyway back to the moss. I can grow pretty much anything. Except, it would seem, Java Moss. The so called indestructible easy plant The most difficult plant I've come across.

This may have to do with the temp of my tank, as I'm in the tropics, which is average of 27o. I've been told by local growers (I live in Java so they should know something about Java Moss )that it just will not survive in higher temps.

Actually considering I live in Java it's relatively hard to find here. One thing I've noticed in my shopping/searches here is that there are many different types of mosses - all being passed off as Java Moss. I suspect a lot of the Java Moss being sold may not be true V.Dubyana which may explain why it's so hit and miss.

I've given up on it.

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

well in a well established planted tank with a lower PH then the bacteria cycle never realy fully develops. in harder high ph tanks then yes the bacteria cycle does have to go through its full course.thats why plants in harderwater higher ph feed readily on nitrates. thats why in some established planted tanks you can read 0 nitrates and may have to actually dose nitrates into the tank, i dose potasium nitrate KNO3 every now and then

Ah, like I said, ammonia compounds are decent ferts. And indeed, here in CA, we have hard, alkaline water. However, in theory, wouldn't the plant's constant uptake of nutrients starve the bacteria needed for ammine transformation?

Last edited by Cup_of_Lifenoodles at 15-Feb-2005 20:14

i think you read my post wrong, i never said ammonia (NH3)
but i also made a mistake, i ment to say nitrate (NO3-) instead of nitrite (NO2-).

i said ammonium (NH4+)

aquatic plants take up ammonium and nitrate (NO3-). mostly ammonium since most plants need to convert nitrate into ammonium for use. there are a few that feed off nitrate more readily then ammonium.

ammonia turns into ammonium at lower PH's or some products that detox ammonia actually turns it into ammonium, a less toxic form of ammonia.

i beleive your tank failed with the hornworth because the PH may have been around PH 6.8 or above. which would still require the tank to cycle but not as much water change at the end of the cycle. at lower PH's the thought of cycling a tank with plants may and should work.

In harder water and higher ph's then plants rely on nitrates




Last edited by aw0l at 14-Feb-2005 19:13

Last edited by aw0l at 14-Feb-2005 19:17

Last edited by aw0l at 14-Feb-2005 19:22

If you have ammonia or nitrite readings at all, there's something not right with your tank params (not you in particular, rather, the breeders).

As is common with land plants, when ammonia builds up (less common whence underwater, due to it's highly polar/soluble nature), it will often form pockets of ammonia gas in the substrate, which can burn off entire root systems, and is, in fact, highly corrosive to all forms of living tissue. Compounded, however, ammonia is a fairly efficient fertilizer, as the plant does not utilize the molecule as a whole, but merely the nitrogen. As for the cycle, well, I sought out to test such a thing myself (this was a recent occurence--i set it up over the summer), as I was told that plants such as hornwort would be of assistence in establishing a new tank and would in fact, skip over the cycle altogether. Boy, was that off the mark. That ten gallon took me nearly two months to finally seed. When you think about it, too, if plants did utilize ammonia effectively,then once the plants were moved about, disrupting the root system, ammonia levels would skyrocket, and as such, there would be no beneficial bacteria in the first place, due to the seeders being starved by the vegetation.

Last edited by Cup_of_Lifenoodles at 13-Feb-2005 22:21

Cupa, your not on the mark this time..well Not completely. Studies from betta breeders who do not use filtration have shown that the addition of java moss has yelded a lower amonia and nitrite.

Actually plants will use amonia and nitritre, somemembers who started their tanks off heavily planted, never saw a cycle...hmmmm? I wonder why?

Shannen

Not true. Plants do not feed on pure ammonia as a source of nitrogen--quite the opposite, in fact, as it can have degratory effects on plants. Though certain amine compounds can be ingested, plants would much rather take up nitrate.

java moss feeds heavly on ammonium and nitrate. in a neglected tank it will grow out of control. i put a small ziplot bag full in my 20 gal feeder tank where i grow a bunch of fancy guppys (feeding the ugly ones to my other fishes) with 1 wpg lighting and now less then 4 months and the whole tank is full of java moss, to the point i trade a ziplock bag away to my freind that breeds killis every time i have to much. xmas moss and erect moss are easier to control.


made a mistake not nitrite but nitrate
Last edited by aw0l at 14-Feb-2005 18:54

Last edited by aw0l at 14-Feb-2005 18:55

hears a trick remove the drift wood from the tank and put the moss on it. then keep it in high humidity and good light. it will attach faster and grow faster then under water. I use it in a dart frog tank and a fish tank thats how I found that it grows faster out of the water.

Every egglayer I have in my tank has used the Java Moss in which to lay eggs - except the rasboras who are always flipping upside down trying to stick them some place - like on the underside of an airline

I assure you, java moss is not a slow grower in good conditions. With 3.2 wpg and DIY CO2, the moss in my tank literally grows like a weed.

I purchased some java moss being told I just need to tie it down to a rock or piece of driftwood and it would grow like crazy. I read other people can almost see the stuff growing it does so well. Three weeks after attacking the plant to a rock and driftwood, nothing. The roots that have come loose are floating around and those still secured by the thread are not doing anything. How long does it generally take for the fern to secure itself to begin growing. I have a 90 gallon community tank, pH about 6.5, ammonia almost zero, nitrates are something like .10 (second color up from the bottom on the card -- the palest yellow), temperature is about 72 and use an undergravel filter.

Thx -- Rae

go to this link for a pic of java moss: http://www.petfish.net/jmoss.htm

__________
"To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research."
researched from Steven Wright

does any one have a picture of java moss? I have been looking for it in the LFS's but i havent found it yet.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Hey LadyRae,

I put a couple of tufts of Javamoss in my tank once and after a slow start it ended up taking over the tank. Little pieces of it would end up in areas where I didn't want it and in the end started to outcompete the plants that I had put there.... it can be really pretty, but once it does start growing it needs quite a bit of maintenance. I no longer want it in my own tanks

Thank you Bob for tie-down instructions. Anytime I tried to tie mine down, I did it in clumps. It makes sense what you say. I'm going to try that.

My java moss doesn't do a great deal but it does grow some what slowly.

My tank run somewhere between 25-and 29˚C (during summer) and they seem to trickle over.

I'm still not game enough to untie the thread that hold it to my driftwood, but given time I'm sure they'll stick.

It's slightly irritating, never tidy unless you trim it, and seems to get eaten by everything.

Apart from that it makes driftwood fluffy!

Java moss seems to be a hit or miss. It either takes over or it doesn't grow at all. If anyone finds the secret let us know.

I keep my moss in very low light tanks and it still grows like mad. I started with a small clump. After seperating it and ending up with two basketball sized clumps, i had to take some back to the lfs. I think not having a heater in the 10 gallon i started it in probably helped.