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Would adding a KH booster affect GH? And would it be enough trace elements for a low-light tank recieving iron, potassium,and Flourish Excel?

Thanks in advance!

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

luvmykrib,

What is a KH booster? I increase my KH with Baking Soda and that does not contain, to my knowledge, the trace elements required by my plants.

Why do you want to increase your KH? How low is it? Or do you plan to use this booster instead of traces?

Ingo

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 22-Jan-2006 18:13

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

The kH isn't low but I have no other use for it and it does provide calcium and magnesium, which is lacking in really soft water. It is from Nutrafin and is supposed to be used in conjunction with their pH adjusting products. I went to the website and didn't get much useful info.I guess I was trying to figure out if I could find another use for the huge bottle I was told I needed to stabilize pH and yet it works totally opposite of what I use to lower the GH and the pH.

I have finally got the gH to about where I want it using the peat, then I found Kents Blackwater extract which I may switch to rather than the peat (same thing simpler delivery), the BW Extract provides trace minerals and iron and vitamins while it softens the water and adds humic acid. It lowers the gH but I'm not sure what effect it has on kH.


"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Sounds like something similar to Seachems Equilibrium.

Calcium and Magnesium will raise your GH. Gh is a measurement of calcium salts.

Raising KH will also raise your pH, and seeing as you seem to be making such an effort to drop pH adding it is completely counter intuitive.

You'll end up with a soup of buffers all cancelling one another out.

KH is not something you want to mess with unless you have to. High KH can be much more problematic for a lot of plants then GH is.

You shouldn't really need to mess with pH either unless extremely high. Most fist will adjust and be happy in higher then optimum pH levels once properly acclimatised. What they can't handle are sudden swings. Using buffers increases the liklihood of such swings.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

I guess I won't use it then.
The reason for lowering pH and GH is because the water from the tap is high pH and GH and iron doesn't stay in solution in alkaline water. The GH is very high and I can't lower the pH without first lowering the GH. My plants should do much better if I can get the water softer and keep the pH at the right level.
I actually probably have great water for a cichlid tank, although the krib seems to like the softer more acidic water that I'm aiming for.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Check my post at the end of this thread,
maybe it would apply here

[link=http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/forums/Planted%20Aquaria/68287.html?200601192031]http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/forums/Planted%20Aquaria/68287.html?200601192031" style="COLOR: #FFFFFF[/link]

The Amazon Nut...

High Gh won't really effect plants at all , not even the so called "soft water" ones. The only exceptions are the real wimpy species like Eriocaulon and Tonnina. I have fairly high GH here no problems.

If the pH is for better plant growth well use Co2. This will allow you both reduce pH and of course is the ultimate aid to plant growth. It'll work out a lot cheaper then all those buffers in the long run.

RO/DI water is another option. The buffers are a pain to deal with and unreliable.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Hi all, see my response in the above mentioned thread on peat. It explains it all.
Thank-You everyone for your replies, I am thinking about the CO2 thing, I may be replacing the light hood sometime in the future, I am unsure about using CO2 without the appropriate light. That said I am trying to find some good info on CO2 in a low-light tank. Aquabotanic used to have an article about this but they have retracted it or something because it is not available any more.
I will continue the hunt, I am stubbornly determined to make this planted tank the best it can be, no matter how long it takes to get there, what obstacles stand in my way. It is a learning experience that is for sure!

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

When I introduced co2 to a 1wpg setup a few years ago, I noticed an immediate huge improvement in the plants. Also I could then carry more species.
Good luck

The Amazon Nut...

I have under 1 wpg on the 25g and about 1.5wpg on the 10g. That is why I am still so unsure, it is barely enough light as it is. I have kept to mostly low-light plants and don't want to cause a major imbalance with that, my stocking levels are usually high and I keep the water level high to keep as much CO2 as possible. Right now a canister filter is out of the question yet it would be preferable to have if I use CO2 right? There are too many things to balance, lights, plants, fish, water, money! Yikes, what's a girl to do?

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Hey fellow canuck (read your other post) I really have to agree with Bensaf on not adding a bunch of chems to alter ph. It's not good, or stable.

CO2 may lower ph but it does not remove excess heavy metals or carbonates from your water, which appears to be the underlying issue. Your best long term solution here is to get an industrial water softener cannister type unit and install it right into one of your taps. (I'm not sure if that's the DI unit Bensaf mentioned ?) If its not one that attaches to the tap, a bit of plumbing may be involved. You now have softer water on tap and no more playing around. RO units wastes 3g for every one produced (which you get billed for in Ontario). A water softener unit wastes not a drop and lowers ph, gh, and kh. This is what co2 will not do. Breeders with fishrooms are doing this now, fairly common practice. Less hassle, tinkering, expense, and steady water parameters in a blink.

Adding cannister filter and compressed co2 in a 25 gal tank isn't needed. Also, since you're running the peatwater already, the blackwater extract is another expense to cut, peatwater does the same thing. There is alot of info on DIY Co2 in Technical Tinkering. If going that route, stagger 1 L bottles every 2 weeks to make things a little more consistent.
You've now tapped out my water chem knowledge (not advanced) so back to the gurus and hope this was any help

The Amazon Nut...

Even low light plants would appreciate the addition of Co2. It certainly is not going to harm any. Better to have Co2 in place, when you are ready for more lights, then the other way around.

A canister filter is by no means a neccesity especially, as DaMossman mentioned on such a small tank. HOBs and Internal filters will be fine, just minimise the surface agitation or add more gas to make up for it. It will work just as well.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Ok, Frank this ones for you but if any-one else has a response feel free to give it. I read the article from Chuck Gadd's Planted Tank about CO2. It made me think, it hurts to do that this early but anyway, if the peat isn't lowering the kH or the pH like it should, then I have to look at phosphates being present in my water right? Which product is best for phosphate removal? Phos-X?
Thanks in Advance!

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

if the peat isn't lowering the kH or the pH like it should, then I have to look at phosphates being present in my water right?

Maybe I missed something but how did it suddenly get to phosphates ?

So now you what to add another chemical ???

You need phosphate, it's a macro nutrient.

Most water buffers have large amounts of phosphate. So my solution to reducing it would not be to add another chem (phos guard or whatever) but to cease adding the buffers.

Again it goes back to adding one thing and then adding another which counteracts the first. That equates to flushing the money down the toilet IMO. Sod the buffers, save the money, keep it to get some co2 kit.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

bensaf, I was wondering if it could be phosphates rather than carbonates in my tap water buffering the kH,pH and GH, which would explain why the peat is not working like it should. The GH is over 300 ppm, that's really too hard, you have to admit that. I don't add any buffers to the water, it is already buffered enough, I am actually trying to take the buffers out to set the set the pH where I want it. Peat is not a buffer, it removes carbonates naturally, lowers the GH and KH, it doesn't lower the pH very much at all.
I understand what you're saying about adding more buffers is a waste of money, and I need some phosphates for the plants. The original question was me trying to find a use for a large bottle I was told I needed to stabilize pH. The pH is stable but higher than I would like it. I will most likely turf that bottle as it is of no use to me unless I wanted to have a hard water cichlid tank in the future. I realize adding CO2 would be the best solution for the 25g, and that will be happening soon. My little 10g though will not be getting CO2 anytime soon and I want to achieve better water conditions for it. That's why the use of natural peat to lower GH,KH and pH. I probably should be testing the phosphate level anyway to be sure there is the right amount in the tank. The phos-X may not need to go in the tank or the filter, I could use it in the water bucket like I do the peat. So that the excess phosphate comes out of the water before going into the tank. Then the phosphate in the tank would only be what occurs naturally or what I'm adding as fertilizer. I think Co2 for the 10g is a bit extreme, but it may be doable in the future.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

300ppm is about 16dgh? That is pretty hard. Shouldn't harm the plants any but maybe at the max for a lot of fish.

For the 10gal as it's so small maybe mixing tap water with RO or distilled water would be a cheap option.

I don't think that the phosphate in the tap will be playing much of a role, but heck I'm no water chemist. It certainly won't effect GH that's purely calcium and magnesium salts.

I do know though that when you start playing with these things and try different assumptions it nearly always end up badly.

If you are not adding Co2 there's no reason to play with KH. pH fish can adapt to as long as it's kept stable, so again I wouldn't mess with that.

That just leaves GH which won't bother with plants but may be a problem for fish (but I'd check that , I'm not sure how much of a problem).

If you have to adjust anything that's the one I'd focus on. Either through RO/DI water or a commercial water softener.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.