FishProfiles.com Message Forums

Ok guys, ive gotten alot of help with lighting and what bulbs to use and how many watts. I have learned alot of lighting lighting in the last month or so.

Here is my problem and i dont even think it can be solved. Before i give up i just wanted to ask everyone i could lol. I have a south American tank , sorta. its mostly SA with some exceptions.

Anyway the decor and feel of the tank keep SA in mind. From the subject line you can prolly guess i cant find the right lighting. I am after a subdued looking light but with the power to grow plants. I'm not trying to grow bright light plants in this tank just simple Low-Med light plants. It is a 75g tank and alot of the fish perfer subdued lighting because they are of course from south american bodies of water with loads of tannins from decaying wood. Also alot of over hanging trees and plantlife over the water.

As i understand it Humans dont see light the same as other things like fish and plants. Is there a temperture that will grow plants really well but still look very dim to me? If not, if i put something like 2 watts per gallon over my tank and then have alot of floating plants to dim it that way will it be the same to the plants?

The thing is im just confused. I have swam alot of bodies of water and ive seen the bottom of lakes. and i can tell you one thing they are no where near the brightness of the majority of planted tanks. How do the plants in nature get what they need underwater with little to no light compared to our tanks.

Thanks for any help, if you cant help 1st hand im more then happy to read a boat load of links. Thanks for any type of info you can give me

Sin in Style

Have you tried adding tannins? They don't do anything harmful to your tank and it's inhabitants to my understanding (other than lower pH), and will naturally darken the water. I know that Kent makes Black Water Extract, and when used at the recommended dosage, turns the water brownish.

Other than this, plants use red and blue light mostly, and what humans consider bright is generally full spectrum. If you try the plant grow bulbs this may seem a little darker to you, but might wash out the colors of your fish and plants.

I dont think that floating plants will work. They will probably darken the tank, but will be taking light away from the lower plants.

As far as how plants naturally get light in dark areas...that mostly has to do with noontime sun. We also like to AMP up our light(add co2 and other nutrients) to see faster growth because most of us are impatient. Plants don't generally grow that fast in nature.

HTH a little

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Hmmm...where to start

Firstly, with regard to natural light. Yes it does look dimmer then our tanks. Why? Quite simple actually. The sun. While it doesn't look as bright to the human eye, the sun itself has an output of many many millions of watts so it's that power that supplies the plants in the wild. It's just so far away it doesn't appear as bright as our artificial lights which while only a tiny fraction of the pwer are dangling afew inches above the water. Hope that makes sense.

As to your problem. Floating plants if left unchecked will block the light to the other plants thereby defeating the purpose of having the lights.
You can create some shaded areas by either having some floating plants or dense planting in parts of the tank that the fish can retreat to and chill out. You can also create darker areas in the tank by lighting some areas less then others. For example you can light one half of the tank brightly and put the corresponding plants in that section and the other half dimmer with plants like Java Fern, Anubias and Crypts. Another option is a lot of driftwood leeching tannins to stain the water.

The only other option is to go with bulbs with a very low color temp, like 2,500K . This will give a very subdued light. There are some who believe that spectrum doesn't really have that much effect on plant growth that intensity is far more important. 60watts of 2,400k is just as intense as 60watts of 6500k it just doesn't LOOK that way to the human eye. I don't know as I've never tried it. Certainly avoid any bulb above 6500k as this will look very bright.

At the end of the day I think if the tank is well planted the fish would be ok even in bright light. The dislike of light is really a security issue. To some fish bright light is like being out in the open and susceptible to predators. If the tank is well planted the fish will feel secure knowing there are hiding places they can dart into and should gradually accept the bright light.Of course theres a chance they may spend most of their time in the plants where you can't see them. Personally I don't mind this. One of the great things about a planted tank is that you get to see the fish act in a more natural manner. I would rather see the fish pop out occassionly from a thicket then watch them swim aimlessly from one side of the tank to the other.

Maybe you can specify what fish you are dealing with and somebody with experience of those particular fish will be able to help.

Last edited by bensaf at 09-Jan-2005 21:45

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

2400K? I'm not so sure that you'd get any plant growing benefit.


Perhaps you should consider MH for a more natual looking light, with the added benefit that any ripples in the surface make the light appear dappled.

Just a thought, but I'd not put any lighting over my tank that's less than 5000k.

from what ive read plants dont use green at all and thats what we see as brightness. Kelvin listings on lightbulbs for aquariums are for the most part false information. the peaks on the graph are correct at their highest point but the low subtle slopes are to make the transition smooth when there really isnt any energy there.

another thing ive learned is plants use mostly true red or ultra violet but nothing past red in the spectrum. they also use blues to support the reds but is more of a secondary.

so now all i need to do is find a bulb heavy on reds and blues and very low greens. the low greens will show the light to be dim to me but not the plants.prolly not gona find this in any "shop" light because the whole idea behind shop lights are to brighten offices ect..

So does anyone know of a bulb low in greens but high in blues and reds? maybe a store online that sells bulbs that supplies graphs on thier site with their bulbs? just to get an idea of what im looking for.

Sin in Style

Hi Sin,
If you are going to house Low to Medium plants in the tank,
then the ideal way would to plant your medium light plants
where they will thrive, and the low light plants in their
shadow. If you plant thickly enough, then the fish will
have lots of plants to feel secure in, and swim among,
while providing enough light for the plants. Additional
floating plants will increase the "shade" as well.

Plants use light in two peaks of the spectrum, the red
and blue areas. Bulbs in the low Kelvin range are
primarily red or reddish or pinkish in the color they
give off. That makes things difficult to see. In
areas of darkness, such as zoo exhibits for nocturnal
animals, they reverse the photo period, and have all
red lights so human visitors can see them as they
hunt and forage. You don't see their true colors
because we don't discern all the colors in red light.
Bulbs that are 5000K are the minimum that should be
used in a planted tank, and then they will tinge the
plants and fish ( as you see them) by their pinkish
glow. Lights that are 10,000K and higher tend to give
off bluish light, and that washes out the greens and
colors of some fish. The highest one would go with
fresh water plants is 10,000K.

For humans and plants, stick with bulbs that are
between 6000K and 8800K. They will allow you to
appreciate the colors of the fish and the plants.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Frank, couldnt i just use 3 bulbs that have high reds and blues but a nasty color then run over it with a coolwhite bulb? this will fill the spectrum and things wouldnt look so washed right? ( or pink )

ive been seeing alot of "glo-Lux" bulbs that are liek this and show as "magenta". so if i got 3 of these then a typical bulb at 6500k would that be enough to reverse the magenta washed out look? at the same time keep the actual brightness of the tank down?

Arcadia make a tropical lamp, which accentuates the reds and the blue in the spectrum. I am using this lamp together with their freshwater lamp, so the results are quite bright, but if you only use the tropical lamp you will get dimmer results, almost dark. It sounds to me like what you're looking for.

Link: Arcadia

Last edited by untitled at 10-Jan-2005 11:22

isnt it kinda pinkish by itself though?

Umm, I don't find it pinkish. Maybe on white or light-coloured gravel it does look pinkish, but it does accentuates the reds and the blues, which makes my brown wood looks very red, and it also makes the red of the plants deeper, and the whole tank looks dim.

I tried to take a picture of my tank when using only this lamp to show you, but the problem is that the camera doesn't show the true colour which it produces. If you want, I can play post it anyway, maybe it will look closer to the real thing if I play with photoshop...

nah no sense in goign nutts over it. dont want you to spend a great deal of time on a pic ill just have t picture it