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In a few months time I plan to convert my current 80 gallon mbuna tank into a lovely, planted, discus + schoolers haven. I need a little more peace in my life! At the moment the tank is set up for the mbuna, with stacked rocks and a very large anubias barteri on driftwood (I think it's actually three or four different plants on there). I am envisioning the aquascape as mainly good pieces of driftwood, stacked together in the centre of the tank, with a liberal coating of java moss and abubias of several different varieties rising out of the nooks and crannies. I would like a fairly simple but effective foreground plant surrounding this centre mound, probably tenellus. The reasons for this aquascape are a) it is a divider tank visible from both sides and therefore this seems the best and easiest way to aquascape it, b) I adore anubias, partly because of its appearance but admittedly also because it is bulletproof, c) As I am going to be keeping discus for the first time, I want to be able to focus on the fish and making sure their every need is fulfilled, without having to worry too much about keeping a heavily planted tank, and yet d) I want the tank to be striking, lush and beautiful.

I was thinking that I would not need to upgrade the lighting on my tank - currently at about 1wpg - but I'm concerned that the tank will not be as nice as it could be if I do this, and that the tenellus in particular won't like such a low light. I am therefore considering having my clever electrician partner fit our current hood out for power compact lighting in order to get more wattage. But in contrast I am worried that the anubias will get burned at a higher light, as there will be no other plants to shade it beneath, and that I will have algae problems as there will be no fast-growers to counteract. I need some advice from the plant gurus - how much light would be best for the set-up I decribe? Will I need c02?



The only way to get rid of a temptation is to yield to it. - Oscar Wilde

just beginning,

You are pretty good already in figuring out what you need and your assumptions about the Tenellus are right on.

I think it will do very fine at around 2wpg, which also happens to be a level at which no CO2 needs to be added and a homogeneous balance can be achieve rather easily. This is even more so the case for you as you will perform soooooo many water changes to keep your discus happy ( will you use tab water for the changes? ). But just to make sure, that is not an extremely tall tank, right – maybe 22” to 24” ?

About the Anubias burning out: That could happen if your “clever electrician partner” hangs a nuclear reactor into the hood . No seriously, I think someone here said it most fittingly – just because they can handle low light doesn’t mean they will not like more light – or something like that. In fact, my Barteri and Nana in my 125G with high light are doing great and have flowers all the time.

Oh, and I almost forgot – no, you don’t need CO2 at this suggested light level. Maybe you want to add a shot of Flourish Excel once in a while.

Hope this helps a little,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

It really is all about balance, LF hit the nail on the head. In one tank I've had with 1.5 WPG I've seen anubias leaves covered in algae within a few days, with only the shaded leaves doing well. I've also had anubias under 2.4 WPG with CO2 where i thought it would be swamped by algae, but was free and clear of the stuff, probably because i gave a lot more TLC to the higher light tank.

Bottom line is, they should be OK, just be nice to that tank and do not neglect it

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Back in the saddle!

You'll certainly need the 2 wpg for the Tenellus, decent reflectors would help hugely also.

Don't go too mad with the Tenellus , Discus like a bit of open ground to feed.

The biggest issue with slow growing Anubias under direct light is Beard Algae and Green Spot.

Adding Flourish Excel will go along way to keeping the Beard algae at bay.

The Excel will also add increased demand for nutrients. As you are keeping Discus and I assume feeding them frequently and heavily as is the norm with these fish, and because of the conservative nature of Anubias you should be able to get by without adding Nitrate or Phosphate. To be safe a few root tabs under the Tennellus wouldn't hurt any. A regular weekly dose of a good liquid fert should cover the rest.

If you notice any Green Spot you may need to add a weekly pinch of KH2PO4 and KNO3. If you see any Beard algae just up the Excel dosage.

Careful positioning of the lights will help. Push them as far to the front as possible. This will give maximum benefit to the Tenellus and provide some shade to the Anubias.

If you want a bit of height or variety, Crypts will work very well in a tank like this. They don't need any more attention then the Tennellus, less in fact. A few groves of C.Willisi will do the same job as the Tennellus and stay the same size.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Definitely listen to these guys, they know what they're talking about. It sounds like a lovely tank and I have a picture in my mind from your description. It would very interesting to see after you set it up if it matches what I have in my head! I like the idea of sticking to only a few species of plants, in the anubias and java ferns there are some varieties to choose from, I am in love with the 'windelov' variety of java fern right now, and the anubias comes in many varieties as well from large to small. I noticed you said java moss not java fern, there are also a few varieties of moss available that are really neat and supposed to be as easy as java moss to grow. Be aware though of the so-called siamese algae eater-java moss destroyer! If you get the urge to add one to a tank with moss in it resist unless you don't mind the moss-muncher munching away at all your hard work!

As for the anubias, definitely higher light can cause problems with algae growing on it, my 25g has less light than my 10g and the anubias in the 10g has algae (except where it's shaded a bit by the driftwood and java fern) and the 25g does not! I haven't yet been able to control it with the excel, but I'm working on it. My tanks are so much smaller than theirs that I haven't fgured out the dose yet!

Last edited by luvmykrib at 18-Jan-2006 23:02

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

I'd like to second Bensaf's suggestion of using small crypts in the foreground as a low-maintenance, low-light alternative to E. tenellus. That's what I've done in my low light (<1 wpg) 42g tank, and I couldn't be happier with the result. I never have to touch them and they fill up the foreground nicely. I can't say the same thing with the tenellus I have in another tank. It needs to be pruned at every water change (which is a PITA process) or it will trip over and shade each other while taking over the foreground, resulting in a mess.

Here's a pic of the tank with green crypt wendtii foreground from a couple of months ago (it's since filled up nicely):


Last edited by upikabu at 19-Jan-2006 05:42[/font]

Last edited by upikabu at 19-Jan-2006 05:43

-P

You should also look up Keith's pictures. He has a pretty big tank with nothing but Anubias.

Edit:I found a post of his. I don't know how much lighting or anything he has but his tanks sure look nice.

http://photobucket.com/albums/b209/keithgh/

Last edited by Wingsdlc at 19-Jan-2006 06:15

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

That could happen if your “clever electrician partner” hangs a nuclear reactor into the hood

I'm not sure he's that clever...

Thanks for all the quick replies, everyone.

But just to make sure, that is not an extremely tall tank, right – maybe 22” to 24” ?

It's 24", not overly tall I suppose.

( will you use tab water for the changes? ).

Tab water = tap water? If so, yes, just tap water for water changes, and ager of course.

What you say about the anubias in higher light does ring true - I kept it in a tank that was just over 2wpg once and it did very well, and was the only time I had flowers as well.

I think that the only way I'm going to get higher than 1wpg is to go all out and get the power compacts anyway - in which case I'll probably end up with more like 2.5wpg. I am guessing I will need co2 with this, right? I don't mind having to use it I suppose, because I have always planned to really tackle the planted thing head-on one day, but am nervous as I've never had to deal with it before.

The biggest issue with slow growing Anubias under direct light is Beard Algae and Green Spot.

I have both of these in my tank at the moment - well, black brush algae, not beard algae, but they are more or less the same thing as I understand it. I've been hoping that I will be able to control it with Excel, but haven't tried it yet. I just hope it doesn't turn out to be a recurring problem, as it seems that it's always been recurring algae of some kind that's ruined my attempts at planted tanks in the past.

Be aware though of the so-called siamese algae eater-java moss destroyer!

D'oh - I was hoping to use these guys to help keep BBA at bay. But I really do want a nice coating of moss on the driftwood. Sigh.

I'd like to second Bensaf's suggestion of using small crypts in the foreground as a low-maintenance, low-light alternative to E. tenellus

Your tank looks lovely with the crypts. Where in Australia are you from, do you know of a cheapish source of these plants? Because I have always wanted to keep crypts in my tank, but they are usually so expensive that to use them as a decent foreground cover would cost a fortune (unless they reproduce fairly easily?)

You should also look up Keith's pictures. He has a pretty big tank with nothing but Anubias.

Yup, I think it was his tank that first inspired me to do something like this . I think mine will be pretty different in its final incarnation, but the basic idea is very much the same.

The only way to get rid of a temptation is to yield to it. - Oscar Wilde

Your tank looks lovely with the crypts. Where in Australia are you from, do you know of a cheapish source of these plants? Because I have always wanted to keep crypts in my tank, but they are usually so expensive that to use them as a decent foreground cover would cost a fortune (unless they reproduce fairly easily?)

I'm in Brisbane. I've gotten some of my crypts from the local LFSs, usually for around $7-10 per pot for the typical variety (wendtii, x willisii, walkeri), but I lucked out one time when I got a huge plant with lots of babies from a display tank for $20. That plant is the main source for this tank, and it did reproduce fairly quickly. The cheapest source I've found is at the local fish auction. HTH!

Last edited by upikabu at 19-Jan-2006 06:48

-P

Ahhh yes, the auctions! I am in Brisbane as well, and many of my fish and plants have come from the auctions. Hopefully there'll be one around the time I'm setting up this tank.

The only way to get rid of a temptation is to yield to it. - Oscar Wilde

As other possible options for a foreground plant - what do you think of dwarf sagittaria or hair grass (if I do get the higher light into the tank, that is).

The only way to get rid of a temptation is to yield to it. - Oscar Wilde

The dwarf sag will be fine. Forget about the Hairgrass, it needs good co2 levels to do well. Will give you headaches you neither need nor want.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.