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I have read about the EI method, and plan on implementing it with my 20G once I get pressurized CO2.

The gist I got from 'the Pope'is that you use say chuck's calculator of APC's fertilator, and figure out how much of each fert you need to add, and then from what you observe either increase or decrease dosage until you find the perfect amount needed for your tank.

besides Tom even lurks this forums *points at plantbrain*

NowherMan6,

About the cloudy water coming from the tab:

If that would be the case it would have cleared in a few hours maximum. Hoping that it is not green water, I believe it is a bacteria bloom that is often seen on new tank setups. Filtering is not the diminishing factor, it simply burns itself out.

EI: yeah, some love it some don’t. I for sure underestimated the tinkering I had to do to get it somewhat right. Actually, I am still not sure if I got it right at this time, I will see what happens when I stop the Excel addition. If I still get algae then some factor is off.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

An update on the cloudy water. The cloudiness of it seems to have disappeared, but there is a distinct reddish/ brownish tint to the water - not very strong, but it's there. I attribute this to the laterite. It's not REALLY discoloring the water, but it does seem to be leaching, even from down under a few inches of gravel.

I've noticed some growth, particularly in the bacopa and the wisteria. I'll post some pics later when I get home. There's also been some die off in the leaves of the tennellus and the vals. I'm not worried about this yet, since I think it's acclimation die off. Once new growth starts I'm hoping it'll come in normal.

The one thing that's bothering me is I haven't seen as much pearling as I'd like... the bacopa does it towards the end of the day, but the others I'm having a tough time getting them to come around. I even bumped up CO2, but no result yet. Any ideas

Fert dosing thus far:

1/8 tsp or slightly less KNO3 each day
5ml Kent Botanica grow
5ml Flourish traces per day

No algae yet, but I have my Excel ready

Also, my girlfriend came to visit this weekend and the following exchange (or something very close) took place:

Her: "Wow, the tank looks beautiful.... but when did you do it?"

Me: "I took a day off from work this past week"

H: "You took a day off from work to spend quality time with your fish?"

M: (with a completely straight face) "No! No, no no no no, no no no, don't be silly... I took a day off from work to spend quality time with my plants, there's a difference."

H: ""

Err, is there any way I can get the tag under my name to read "Plant Addict" rather than "Fish Addict" ?

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Back in the saddle!

NowherMan6,

- My laterite never leaked into the water column. How high did you make the gravel base and how much of it is mixed with laterite (usually bottom 3rd should be mixed). I got problems though when the gravel wasn’t high enough or got greatly disturbed during planting. Nevertheless, laterite always settled back down rather fast after it got released into the water column. Don’t you have a driftwood that could release tannins?

- Your tenellus might die off because it is an emersed growth and new leaves will come in. I don’t know about the vals though.

- I don’t know about your fert routine as I never used the Kent product and Flourish Trace. I noticed a major decrease in bubbling in my tank as soon as I started to add the Excel though (and it hasn’t really come back although I haven’t dosed since Saturday). What is your ph and KH? How many CO2 bubbles do you have per second? Is the CO2 nicely distributed throughout the tank when it leaves the Reactor?

- About the BF – GF conversation:

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

See, I thought it may be the driftwood, but I've had that driftwood for a few months now and it never leached tannins like tha before. Could be it, but doesn't seem likely. The laterite is mixed in in the first 3/4 or 1" of gravel, then about 2" on top of it. I've read in a few places that laterite can make tank water tea colored for a few weeks, which is why I assumed it was that. It's not that it makes the tank look ugly either, but I am just interested to know what's turning my water tea-colored.

As for the CO2, The bubbles are coming out of my bubble counter at about 3-4 bubbles per second, but they pop into the reactor at maybe half that 1-2 bubbles per second... so i don't know which count to trust. Last I checked (pre-replant) pH was at 6.8, KH always been 3, which would put me at about 14ppm... maybe I should try to bump it up to 20ppm?

and p.s. LF - after I did the replant and ran the CO2 after the large water change, I noticed my reactor looked like yours did a few weeks ago, with the large amount of bubbles swooshing around. I guess it was from the large amount of CO2 dissolved in the newly changed water - it was saturated already. Just like Bensaf said So, officially, he was right and I was wrong Argh, what do I expect, arguing with the plant guru...

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NowherMan6,

Do you have activated carbon in your filter (I don’t)? That might help, or even better get some of the Purigen that Untitled No4 and tetratech rave about. This should clear it up. I don’t really remember 100%, but I think that my driftwood in the 29 started leaking tannins weeks (4 to 8) after it had been added.

Trust the bubble count in the bubble counter, not the hose that gets into the reactor. There you have less bubbles because the hose is wider than the actual outlet created by the valve into the bubble counter. And yeah, crank it up a notch, 30ppm are still good. Do you turn your CO2 off at night? I do, and tetratech does something similar.

When is Bensaf, soon to be called “The No-Show” , not right? It is always just a question if we have the patience to listen and wait for the results to kick in. I MISS HIM .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Nowher,

I've never used laterite so I can't tell you whether that's what's given you tan water. I can't imagine it's the driftwood if you have used it before for a few months. Additional the DW isn't a hugh piece so I don't think it would have much of a factor on your water. Did you rinse the laterite until the water was clear? If you haven't done so already I "STRONGLY" recommend using activated carbon for 2 weeks. It was absorb alot of waste and nh3 that your immature plants and immature biofilter will not. The one regret I had was not using carbon and seeding with a bigger biofilter when I started my tank. I think if I had I would have avoided my green water. Also remember I used about 6 bags of eco complete that *"contains live heterotrophic bacteria to rapidly convert fish waste into natural food for your aquatic plants"
and "creates a natural biological balance which makes cycling a new aquarium faster and safer" (as long as you don't get the corrupted stuff) So I think that along with less light I came out a little better than Little_Fish.

I truly belive that as long as the plants have light and co2 they will do fine for the first few weeks. I don't think the ferts I going to do that much in that timeframe.

They are living off internal reserves and haven't adapted yet to tank conditions. Amano and many other advanced aquarists do not dose ferts that first few weeks because of this reason. If you have strong light and too much waste not getting absorbed (no biofilter, immature plants, no carbon) you stand a very good chance of getting alot of algae.


If I still get algae then some factor is off.
LF - Better not let Bensaf see that, unless you've bottomed out on something, which I doubt. I wonder how Bensaf's trip is going in S.A. in search of new plant species?



Last edited by tetratech at 14-Nov-2005 18:03

My Scapes

AAACK! DISASTER!!!

My CO2 bottle has run out... and I can't get it refilled until Saturday

Man, this was stupid of me. I guess my only option right now is to start dosing Excel until then, and maybe keep adding fresh water to bump dissolved CO2 up... any other ideas???

EDITtually, OK, I think I'm going to make a very basic DIY set-up until I can get it refilled. I've got a 2L bottle with a hole punched in the cap. The basic mixture will be, correct me if I'm wrong: 1/4 teaspoon yeast, 2 cups sugar, then fill about 3/4 of the bottle with warm water, right? Then stir it up, and screw on the cap? The cap will basically be hooked up to my normal reactor... I know the flow rate wont be much, but this is only for a week mind you. ANything else I should have/ know??? Thanks

Last edited by nowherman6 at 14-Nov-2005 18:41

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Nowher,

I would do the DIY, get it setup tonite so it will be bubbling in the morning I would also supplement with the Excel. I used to add 1/2 tsp of baking soda to help stablize the ph, but it's probably not necessary. If you want the bubbling to start quicker, put the yeast in a little cup in room temp water add a pinch of sugar and stir with a little water until it's soupy than dump that into the the 2 liter bottle. That get's the yeast going quicker and you should have co2 by morning.

My Scapes

Thanks tetra, I finished hooking up the bottle just now. No bubbles yet. I used a basic check valve just in case... I also smothered the outside of the bottle cap with silicon, so hopefully that'll harden and seal things up within few hours - I'll post any progress tomorrow.

This really was a bonehead move on my part though, I should've been better prepared. Oh well, live and learn I guess.

p.s. Is that really where bensaf is?

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Back in the saddle!

Well, besides that fiasco, here are some updated pics:

Here's a side shot, you can see the brown tint to the water. It actually looks more green here than the brown it is in real life. I added some activated carbon, so we'll see if that helps:



Here's another full tank shot, not much gong on yet, some growth, but looks a little cleaner than the original shots:



And here's a shot of two of my yo-yos chasing - my fav fish to photograph :

[/font][/font][/font]

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NowherMan6,

Don't worry, there is always something we forget when messing with the tank .

I am a little intrigued by the look of your Tenellus. Are you sure that is what it is? I have seen emersed growth (my own) and yesterday at the LFS again, and although similar it was not the same.

I can see the green/brown in your tank. Tetratech is the expert on discoloring, so I am not gonna suggest anything else .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks for the lead in LF. Master of discolored water. O.K. I'll take it.

Nowher if your water is truly more brown that sounds like it must be the driftwood or the substrate. Just keep doing your water changes and it should disappear. Bacterial or Algae Blooms are much whiter in appearance.

BTW - I'm really not sure where Bensaf is, when he takes a vacation he's not kidding.

My Scapes

Tetratech,

You are welcome

And I even give you the additional title of "Master of the smart Wisteria"



Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I think I prefer Wisteria Wizard. It has a nice ring to it. Here's a pic showing my powers. You could see the start point of this shoot. It run's along the substrate and is rooted in along the way. Many times plants will stay low with very strong light. As you know my light is 2.7 wpg with the same depth as your tank LF.

BTW Nowher, I know it's always nice to see your plants pearl, but many of mine done. I don't think I've ever seen my Wisteria pearling and it grows as LF would say "like a weed". The rotala pearls almost everyday and I get alittle from the Stargrass.





tetratech attached this image:


Last edited by tetratech at 15-Nov-2005 09:08[/font]

My Scapes

uh,

I was just commenting on how remarkable it is that you manage to get the red x on the screen. You are truly a Wizard

Then you deleted the post


Anyways, good shot on showing us how the stem stays attached to the substrate

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

The tenellus is strange looking right now, but on most of the plants there are actually smaller leaves towards the "outside" of each that look more like typical tenellus leaves. Once I get my new CO2 hooked up I plan on going through them and cutting off the large stringy leaves and leaving the smaller ones to grow in. Some of those stringy leaves aren't even real leaves at all - they're seed pods, which is yet another way I can tell they were def. grown emersed. I cut off most of them but I know I missed a few.

As for the DIY CO2, I don't know if it's working properly. I woke up this morning and looked into my reactor and i could only see a few bubbles bouncing around, and nothing coming out of the line for a few minutes. But then i'd walk away, look again and the reactor was filled with bubbles, so they may just be coming in there at a very unsteady rate. If that's the case then it'll certainly do for a few more days. One question - can/ should I shake the bottle every day to stir things up?

tetra, nice picture of the wisteria. Weedy plants like that can be grown that way, I used to do the same thing with hygro polysperma. You just push the stem into the substrate, side roots form and root it in the gravel and then boom! instant ground cover. Nice job

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Weedy plants like that

tetratech will understand ...

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

"Weedy plants like that"

How rude]:|

My Scapes

Ohhh, don't get your wisteria in a knot.

I've got both hygro polysperma AND wisteria growing in my tank. I've also got hornwort - the king of all weeds - growing in my other two tanks. I like them all! But you must admit, anything with a growthrate of a certain speed or above is weedy plant, that's just the way it is. They're hated because they love to please. The pickier the plant, the more respected it is in the planted tank community. I didn't make the rules...

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When you have wisteria as your avatar and taking up 2/3 of your tank bottom your going to be very protective. I might surprise my wife and garnish tonites dinner with some. Great idea right

Last edited by tetratech at 15-Nov-2005 11:04

My Scapes

Fantastic idea, I think! So what did you serve as the main course, filet of clown loach?

CO2 update: I'm glad to say that my DIY set-up is finally starting to produce... my ph has risen significantly since the bottle ran out, but at least there's SOME co2 being pumped in there, which is better than none at all.

The polysperma is the first to show significant growth so far... and I'm starting to notice little bits of brown algae (diatoms) on some of the leaves. I guess that's normal for a new tank like this, but I was hoping to avoid it. Maybe I'll invest in a few otos when I up my stocking in a few weeks...

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NowherMan6,

Diatoms come from excess silica, so this must have been contained in your substrate (as the tank = glass is not new). Let me tell you - good food source for fry

Glad to hear that you got some CO2. What do you mean with the ph has risen significantly? How much fro where?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I don't know if anyone stated or not, but your tenellus was grown emersed. It will lose all of the spade shaped leaves eventually and grow more pointy thin leaves in it's place. So don't worry if yours are losing leaves or turning brown. It's going to happen.

EDIT: ah I see now....I'm a little late on the tenellus thing.

Anyways, I like the new look!

Last edited by mattyboombatty at 16-Nov-2005 10:03

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Well I'm glad diatoms are a good food source for fry, but unfortunetely I don't think I'll ever have fry in that tank unless i get livebearers, because my yo-yos are sure to eat any eggs that fall on the substrate. A fat lot of good those diatoms are doing me now ]:| All I care about is getting rid of them!

yeah, my ph is usually between 6.8 and 6.6, which puts me between 15 and 22ppm of CO2. last night i checked it and it was around 7.0, maybe a little above (it was a little more blue than the 7.0 indicator). That happened over the couse of a day and a half, so hopefully the swing wasn't too bad. No signs of stress from the fish at all, so I'm not too worried... just about the plants. Tonight they will get their first water change and grooming... and now I'm going back into LFs log to find that info about how to trim certain plants. Wish me luck wading through all that...

And thanks matty, a third opinion never hurts

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Back in the saddle!

Update: bensaf's list of plants that need to be uprooted every trim vs. those that can be snipped is actually on page 9 of tetra's log. I just read through 29 pages of Log for that info. My eyes are bleeding. I need to lay down...

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Back in the saddle!

Good job NowherMan6,

Now I know where I can find it again

I hope it was worth the blood loss.

Ingo

EDIT: I stated

Somewhere buried in tetratech’s or my log (I think) is a nice list of how to prune certain plants

-- If you would have followed it in that order you would have safed yourself from reading 20 pages

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 16-Nov-2005 14:33

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

EDIT: I stated "Somewhere buried in tetratech’s or my log (I think) is a nice list of how to prune certain plants" -- If you would have followed it in that order you would have safed yourself from reading 20 pages

Oh what a fool I've been! Increasing my knowledge by reading all those pages when I didn't have to!

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Did some housekeeping the other day and cleaned some things up. I trimmed the rotala and it's already showing some nice new growth. I switched a section of it around , bunched it up a bit more, something with a few stems of the bacopa. I also gave the tenellus a bit of a trim. Here's a shot of the trimmed section:



I'm still waiting for the bacopa and rotala to grow in more before I start bunching and moving things around to see what looks best, but I like it so far.

Also, here are two shots of "things" that have recently grown in on the tenellus - they look like runners to me, except they're growing straight up in the air, not along the ground. If that's what they are, should i push them into the substrate? If that's not what they are, then anyone have any ideas?





And I've taken your early advice, tetra and LF, and gotten some new rocks. I haven't put them in yet, but they're a lot more natural looking that the white ones I have in there now. [/font][/font][/font]

Last edited by NowherMan6 at 18-Nov-2005 08:46

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NowherMan6,

The more I look at your tenellus the more I think it is something else.

It is giving me way more the impression of being a form of Crypt or Anubias.

Crypt in particular because of the leaf shape,
Anubias because ot the things that you assume are runners, I think they are flowers.

That is very interesting ...

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

NowherMan6,

They are flower sticks. When I first bought my E. tennelus, they look just similar to yours with a couple of those vertical sticks with flowers on top. As a matter of fact, I had no idea they were E. tennelus (labelled "misc. sword" ); I just thought, hey cool, plants with flowers! A few weeks after they've been in my tank, they started growing real (horizontal) runners and eventually the mother plants with the emersed look died.

I found a picture of my tank]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v58/witje/Fish/tank3_wk1.jpg[/link] where you can actually still see the mother plant with its long, broad leaves and flower sticks (sans flowers). It's the plant on the right, in front of the driftwood. A couple of months later they looked like [link=this.

Last edited by upikabu at 18-Nov-2005 09:18

Last edited by upikabu at 18-Nov-2005 09:19

-P

I think I'll have to give aquariumplants.com a call and see if they'll confirm whether they were grown emersed or not, and if not, what kind of plant they gave me. I'm not really mad about it if it was a substitution, I just want real tenellus and I just want to know what the heck this is if it isn't tenellus

But I don't think it's a crypt or anubias.. defintely not anubias, the leaves are very grasslike and thin and there's no rhizome. Possibly a crypt, but i didn't think crypts flowered like that... if anything it's some other species of dwarf sword plant, I just want to KNOW...


EDIT: Ohhh, thanks for the pic! Are those smaller plants around it from the mother plant, or were they put there seprately?

Last edited by NowherMan6 at 18-Nov-2005 09:19

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Nowher,
upikabu's plant definitely looks like your's just the emersed state, just hold tight.

upikabu you tank looks really nice. If you group that plant in front of heater alittle tighter you won't see the heater or you could add some hardscape. You could also by the visi-therm stealth version which is all black. That's what I have in my tank with a black background you barely see it.



My Scapes

Yup, those little plants that you can hardly see on the middle of the tank were from the mother plant. For the longest time I thought I had a new species of sword. The tennelus forest on the second pic is actually from only 2 mother plants. So I bet in a couple of months you'll have a jungle.

-P

Thanks, tetratech. Actually now that things have grown in and I've replaced the Elodea, the tank looks like this. Well, that was last week anyway.

-P

Nice Job, really

Still think some driftwood poking through from the middle of all those plants would really finish it off, but that's me. What's the plant behind the tennelus carpet.

BTW - How do your bolivians get along. I just purchased a second. I'm pretty sure I have two males and the bigger keeps the smaller one to the other side of the tank.

My Scapes

So I bet in a couple of months you'll have a jungle.

here's hoping!



......

And another bit of news i forgot to add, the water seems to be losing the brownish tint... it seems a little cloudy still, but nothing too noticable.

Now I continue to play the waiting game... and stop my mind from drifting off and thinking about what other fish I'm going to add '

EDIT: that seems expected with the bolivians... your older one is sure to have set up a territory already. the good thing is your tank is so large i'm sure the little one has enough room. maybe they would have gotten along better if they were introduced at the same time and not staggered

Last edited by NowherMan6 at 18-Nov-2005 09:46

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Tetratech and his driftwood

Yeah, upikabu is right, it really looks the same. But based on what was said my confusion is understandable, right?

And upikabu – you speak of a Tenellus Garden, have you seen my Tenellus Jungle ? It is [link=Right Here]http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/forums/Aquascaping/61406_3.html" style="COLOR: #ff6633[/link]. (Nice tank, btw.)

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Tetratech and his driftwood
Damn straight.
If you want your tank to look like a tilted vegetable cart than don't put any hardscape in. "I'll take two of those and three of those and those look nice today I'll take a half dozen" Don't get me wrong this is my opinion and everyone must like what they see when they set back and look at their tank. If you tightly group each plant and have contrasting leaf textures next to each other it does have a visual appeal. On the other hand Amanos or let's forget Amano a more natural appearance would take into account all the elements (rock, dw, plants, substrate and build around the hardscape. In nature if you have a big rock on a piece of fertile dirt the plants will grow around it. Some will be tall, some short, maybe moss, etc, I don't think the rocks are placed around the plants. You must build your layout from the foundation, which is the hardscape.

Last edited by tetratech at 18-Nov-2005 09:57

My Scapes

Still think some driftwood poking through from the middle of all those plants would really finish it off, but that's me. What's the plant behind the tennelus carpet.

I totally agree with you, tetratech, especially since I took out the bogwood on the left (it's just too damn big!) early this week. Now the left side lacks focus, just a hodgepodge of plants (sounds familiar, eh LF? ). The problem is finding a piece of driftwood that's big enough but won't overshadow the plants too much, especially the tennelus (I only have 1.7wpg). Hope I'll find something at the local fish auction today.

BTW - How do your bolivians get along. I just purchased a second. I'm pretty sure I have two males and the bigger keeps the smaller one to the other side of the tank.

What makes you think mine get along? The only times they're at peace with each other are were they were spawning and protecting the frys (twice). At all other times they're on opposite sides of the tank mostly, and the alpha male always chases away the female during feeding time so I have to feed them separately. I think it's pretty normal behavior for Bolivians (and most cichlids) no matter what sex.

And upikabu – you speak of a Tenellus Garden, have you seen my Tenellus Jungle ?

LF - you win. BTW, do you have CO2 in your 29G and how much light do you have there? My tennelus don't look so green anymore now that the big background plants are grown in and some are shading it. But I wonder if it's really a lack of light or lack of CO2 (I use Excel). I'm really anal when it comes to messy-looking things (hence my nick); that's why I decided to trim away the tennelus garden a few months ago. Took me a while. In all honesty though, it never looks as good again since that time.

-P

What's the plant behind the tennelus carpet.

Do you mean the green flame sword (the one with reddish leaves)?

-P

Yep, that answers it. Nice plant!

My Scapes

upikabu,

Does the question about lights in my tank imply that you only looked at the pictures in my thread ?

Ok, here is a summary: 65W 6,700K PC, no CO2 except once every two weeks 10ml of Flourish Excel. Plants look very green ever since I got the 6,700K light – that is one side effect of this temperature, everything is soooo much greener.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Nice tank! I tend to just dive in and start rooting around and let my fish fend for themselves. My house is most often too cold to have fish in buckets for too long, they get sick when I warm them up again. But after reading this thread, when I do a major replant of my 25g I will remember to move the poor little fishies first.

I have a question about using CO2, can it be used when one has mostly large fish and not a heavily planted tank? Or would Excell be a better bet? I have never used Co2 and while my plants seem fine they just don't grow like yours do, my amazon swords haven't reached the surface and they'll be a year old in March!
I have learned so much by reading these threads so please keep posting. Tetra I made it through yours last night.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Well, since you read through my long and sometimes bizarre thread I think it only just that I answer your Co2 question.

Its more a matter of light intensity whether co2 would be applicable. Almost all plants grow faster with the addition of c02. Don't want to get too much into it because this is Nowhere's thread about his tank, but if you want to continue in another thread I'm sure the myself and the others would be happy to answer any co2 questions.

My Scapes

My house is most often too cold to have fish in buckets for too long, they get sick when I warm them up again. But after reading this thread, when I do a major replant of my 25g I will remember to move the poor little fishies first.

Yep, just plop the heater in the buckets with them, it's a lot less stressful. Also, keep them in the old tank water in the buckets, that'll keep the stress down too.

Hehe, tetra, if you want to post the long answer that's more than fine with me. These aer all very open threads afterall.

In anycase, what tetra said is true - 99% of the time adding pressurized CO2 will make your plant growth take off, but if light is your limiting factor (the big things plants need are: carbon, N, P AND K and light) then all the CO2 in the world won't help them grow as fast as they can. Feel free to ask any more questions here or elsewhere, we'll help the best we can

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Back in the saddle!

Haven't been keeping up with this log too much, very hectic at work...

Anyway, my tank has now taken on the dreaded white cloudy appearance, so now I'm off to search through tetras thread to see what he did to clear things up.

Also, I'm noticing that there's a green algae forming on my substrate - not BGA, its not loose or slimy, it's just green. Which means one thing - my BN is not doing his/ her job! ]:| I mean, why else would I have that ugly little critter in there if not to clean up some of the easy green algae - it's not like Im asking him/ her to take on staghorn algae...

methinks otos will be a part of my new stocking...

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methinks otos will be a part of my new stocking...

methnks that Shrimp should be part of your new stocking as well as Otos are very picky about their food . I cannot vouch for it, but it appears to me that as soon as algae strands reach a measurable size the Otos are not going to eat it anymore.

Ingo

EDIT: have fun with tetratech's Willow Branches

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 22-Nov-2005 09:59

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Nowher, to save you from reading through my log (unless you really want to) here's what it could be and what I had and did. There are 3 possiblities in order of difficultly.

1. Bacterial Bloom - This will disappear after a few weeks, you really don't have to do anything, maybe big water change. If it doesn't go away by than it's probably number 2. I believe bacterial blooms are caused by decaying plants, overfeeding, etc.

2. Algae Bloom - This is what I had. It will look white at first, seems to get worse during the day and eventually it will take on a greenish tint. I tried almost everything even "dancing around the tank" must see my thread for the full story, including the part with the willow branches. You could clear it with a blackout, diatom filter, or a few products like Seachem Clarity or Hagen P-Clear. I ended up using P-Clear and at first it did clear it. These product clump the bloom so it's big enough for your mechanical filter to grab it, but after the water cleared it did come back a few times. I used the product about 4 times and it eventually cleared for good, but I'm not sure if it's because of the product or because my plant mass got big enough to beat back the algae bloom. The willow branches are a long story, but if you add a bunch of weeds (you know Wisteria) and let them float especially that should help.

3. Since you are running diy co2 I had to mention this, but it's probably not the root of your cloudy water. The yeast mix could have gotten into the tank and started a reaction. This happened to me once when I was running two 1.9 litre bottles into my old 46. When I woke up their was a billowly cloud in my tank and the fish were gasping. The tank smelled like beer. My tank bascially became a co2 bottle. Very ugly, total breakdown of tank to clear it. I think this happened because I didn't have my bottles below the tank, but next to it.



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but it appears to me that as soon as algae strands reach a measurable size the Otos are not going to eat it anymore

Well that's the thing, it's not strands, it's just green algae covering certain pieces of gravel... the BN should be feasting on this stuff but he/ shes nowhere to be found. Wait, scratch that, i know exactly where it is - hiding in the DW, like always... lazy mooching BN... ]:|

As for the water, thanks for the summary tetra. I did go back and look some things over... bensaf said green water was a result of ammonia and too much light, but I know I don't have either. I have a diatom filter and it works well for a while, but I know from experience the GW always comes back. last time I fixed it by dropping some hornwort in, which is what I just did yesterday, so we'll see what happens in a few days. Hopefully my other plants will continue to grow in and fight back the uni-cell algae.

I don't know how it could be a bacteria bloom either, it's pretty much a brand new tank, there's nothing to decay yet, except for some old growth on the tenellus.

And no more DIY CO2, btw. Sat. i got my tank refilled and all is well, I have the CO2 pushing pretty hard, but Im thinking of upping it into the 30s (right now it's in the low 20s, fish showing no signs of stress)

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lazy mooching BN
I never realized truly what kind of mess BN's make in a tank until I moved one out of my 72 and into my 12 with a sand bottom. I couldn't see the mess on my eco but on the sand it was unbelievable that one fish could poop that much. They are just constantly ingesting wood and food on it. That's really their mean thing and not the algae on glass, plants, etc. If you take out the DW they will do a better job because it's the next best thing. I have since moved my BN out of my 12 because of the mess and because it was pushing sand all over my javamoss, so now he resides in a 10g with some guppies, wcmf, ramshorn snail and a fire-bellied newt.

Is the water getting cloudier in the evening that's usually a sign that it's GW. My tank seemed to look it's clearest in the morning and got worse as the day progressed.



Last edited by tetratech at 22-Nov-2005 14:40

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tetratech's BN




No other comment

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BN in a ten gallon, eh? :cratches chin, light bulb over head goes from "off" to "on"::

Would you say that's a permanent spot for him, or are you just keeping him there temporarily? I'm seriously considering finding an LFS to try to take mine.

Last edited by NowherMan6 at 22-Nov-2005 15:15

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Gosh, I'm so glad I read this. I've been considering getting a BN for my 15g to take care of the occasional diatoms on the glass. After reading tetra's experience I'm glad I haven't (I have a sand bottom too). I'm going to hunt for a couple of otos this weekend.

Nowherman6 - otos should immediately take care of those soft green algae - they love that stuff! I bought some anubias at an auction over the weekend whose leaves were covered with soft green algae (not green spot). Within a couple of hours after putting it in my tank with 2 otos, the algae was completely gone!

-P

BN in a ten gallon, eh? :cratches chin, light bulb over head goes from "off" to "on"::

Well he was 'bout 2" when I got him, he's probably about 4.5 now. The ten has a series of rocks forming a cave that extend out of the water for the newt. He has been hanging out in one cave upside down since I got him. The tank is near a window and get's lots of algae, so I thing he's pretty happy. I just ran out of options, he might end up back at the LFS like you said. I still have an albino BN in my 72 as well.

upikabu,
As you could see I think you will regret it if you put a BN in that tank and it makes your nice sand look like "crap" literally.


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Yeah, I think my BN is going to have to go. The more I get into the plantedness of the tank, the more I want gentler fish that don't hide in caves all day and uproot my rotala

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Finally back from the holiday - and work - with some bad news to report. I think I'll let the pictures do the talking...

Imagine coming home to this:





Now, Ive basically just been trying to ignore the green water, I've been adding ferts as normal trying to increase plant mass... but as you can see the green has definetely gotten worse. I may have to diatom it soon if it doesnt improve...

However, I must say, plant growth looks phenomenal once you get past the green water. The luwigia is showing fantastic color and has really taken off in growth, and the rotala is starting to grow in really well, as with the wisteria. The tenellus is sprouting new shoots every day. I'm sure I have a really nice tank, pity I can't see it [/font][/font]

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However, I must say, plant growth looks phenomenal once you get past the green water. The luwigia is showing fantastic color and has really taken off in growth, and the rotala is starting to grow in really well, as with the wisteria. The tenellus is sprouting new shoots every day. I'm sure I have a really nice tank, pity I can't see it
We'll take your word for it, since we can't see anything.
That is similiar to what happened to me. Great plant growth, but water started to get cloudly. Don't bother with extra water changes it will not do a thing. Curious did you ever start using carbon, I don't remember. I did cut back on ferts and starting to increase plant mass. I still feel the lack of carbon and a good biofilter from the getgo is the genesis of the GW. I don't know if the ferts than feed it.

Increase plant mass and you could try P-Clear or Seachem's Clarifty if you want to use a particulate (clumps the GW so your mechanical filter can grab it) This will clear it but it will come back if you don't change something else or plant mass increases.

BTW - If you use the particulate once it clears, clean out your filter media because it will be green with the GW and then I would add the Purigen to the filter media. The Purigen might make it harder for the GW to get established again.

Last edited by tetratech at 28-Nov-2005 09:24

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Wow NowherMan6,

I didn’t know if I should or when I saw the pictures.

Green water is to my knowledge not dangerous to plants and fish, as long as there is enough oxygen in the water for the fish to breath. Actually, if you had fry they would love the soup as it is an excellent food source. Plants seem to show almost no negative effect in growth either.

tetratech is the Green Water Specialist (not wizard, not god ) and his advice is as good as it gets .

Ingo

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Please, by all means all you want, I do. Over the couse of the past few weeks it was basically:

- "hmm, looks a little brownish or cloudy. meh, it's just the laterite"

then, "hmm, still cloudy, more whitish now. nothing to worry about... I can't see green though. nope, definetely no green. can you see green? I can't see green... "

then finally after being away a few days and seeing the pea soup, "d*mmit, that's green water..."

I'll do some research on purigen. Right now it looks like a good diatoming is in the works, just so I can see things again. Ferts will continue as normal, full speed ahead!

Is there any utility to cutting back on my lighting? Right now it's going 11 hrs... would 10 be better? And also, I've been testing for ammonia over and over but can't get any to register... I guess it's in very small ammounts so it's not showing up... but it's there in large enough quantities to start this bloom ]:|

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