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looking good, please keep up with the pic updates. I'm interested in how your lawn fills in.

Day 49: Feb 18

All readings from one day after the water change.

Ammonia - 0ppm
NitrIte - 0ppm
NitrAte - 10 ppm
PO4 - 1.0 ppm
pH - 6.8 ppm
KH - 5 degrees

Derived CO2 - 24 ppm

Changes made:
Another water change. Trimmed the rotala and replanted it in groups of 2. Took out the wisteria that wasn't doing anything and the myriophilia that was rotting. I bought some green hygro to put in the place of the myriophilia, thinking that it is a hardier plant, and one that I can handle. I like the look of leafy plants better anyhow and was going to buy green hygro when I set up the tank, but the lfs didn't have any. I really simplified the tank, which I think will be better in the long run. I also brought the pH down to 6.8 as Planbrain suggested. Started adding a potassium supplement along with occasional trace dosing.

Observations:
The phosphate and nitrate rose pretty quickly with the removal of the other plants. I'm hoping that the other plants will help catch up. Or I may have to start doing Biweekly water changes. Green wendtii exploded this week, it's looking really good. I'll try to get a pic in later today, because my batteries died when I was taking full tank shots.


Plantbrain - I dropped the pH down to 6.8, we'll see how that goes. Also added some K supplements as I don't really need to add any nitrate or phosphate yet, due to phosphate in my tap and plenty of waste from my angels.

tetratech - The angels don't do any harm to the plants, but my bristlenose has been terrorizing everything but the stem plants. I'm thinking of moving him/her to another tank(If I can catch it).

Here's a Pic:

mattyboombatty attached this image:


Last edited by mattyboombatty at 02-Jul-2005 17:17[/font]

Last edited by mattyboombatty at 03-Oct-2005 21:51

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Nice looking tank, good progression. Especially those chain swords!

Just wondering if you're planning on letting them take over the whole front of the tank? Or should I say not planning on stopping them?
It's a shame we can't see more of the crypts, hopefully they'll keep growing at that rate so they're more visible for the next pic.

Tank's gonna be sweet when everything fills in. Good Job

nice tank

how bigz the tank

Day 167: June 16 <---I think I counted the days right

Well it's been QUITE some time since I updated this thread(I broke my ankle the very night of my last post), but I'm planning on a few changes to the tank, and I'm still looking for advice [link=here]http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/forums/Aquascaping/60669.html?200506161509 " style="COLOR: #FFFF00[/link] if you would like to help .


Ammonia - 0ppm
NitrIte - 0ppm
NitrAte - 10 ppm
PO4 - .5 ppm
pH - 7.4 ppm
KH - 3 degrees

Derived CO2 - 3.6 ppm

Changes made:
Did a water change today, dosed kno3 due a 100% waterchange on move day two weeks ago. Also, I started regular dosing of ferts on a weekly basis. Haven't noticed much change in the plants, but there hasn't been an outbreak of algea either, so all is good. Cleaned out a bunch of the e. tenellus as it was choking it's own growth. Last post I added the hygro that is still doing well. I moved the anubias nana to the front right, but might move it again. I also moved the crypt wendtii to the front right, which got a little cut out of the pic.

Observations:
The pH is really high due to a massive clean out of the reactor, hopefully that is the only reason. The plants still seem to be growing rapidly, so the pH should bounce back soon. The KH seems a bit lower than it was at my old apartment, and I may have to add some crushed coral to the filter to avoid a crash.

Pic:


mattyboombatty attached this image:

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Day 176: June 25

Ammonia - 0ppm
NitrIte - 0ppm
NitrAte - 5-10 ppm
PO4 - .5 ppm
pH - 6.7 ppm
KH - 4 degrees

Derived CO2 - 24 ppm

Changes made:
I made a few changes to the aquascape and added four new plants; java fern on the driftwood, bacopa and L. repens in the back right corner, and c balansae in the front left corner. I also moved the anubias nana in fron of the driftwood.

Observations:
The pH stayed high (~6.8 - 7.0) until I refreshed a yeast mixture two days ago. The pH seemed to drop to 6.6 within about a day. I can already see some new growth in the L. Repens, though I only got it yesterday.

Pic:


mattyboombatty attached this image:

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Please excuse the flying reactor in the last post, it's the only place it will fit right now.

Here are some pics of the new plants:

L. Repens


Bacopa


Java fern


C. Balansae

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

I love it but it would be better if you made the rotala blend in with the aquascape at the moment it stands out like a sore thumb. Id spread it out more so it ends up basically merging with the hydro

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''All the clown fish and yellow tangs in the world cant save you now!''

Dude, that is absolutely unreal...!!! are those plants all available in Australia?? i dont recall ever seeing them in the lfs

Alex - I'll try to blend them a little. I was going to, but I haven't been able to get any good clippings of the rotala yet due some algae at the surface which formed after I moved, but it seems to have almost completely cleared up now that it's been stable for a month.

Opiate - Thanks! As far as I know those plants should be available in Aus. but I'm definitely not knowledgeable about the goings on of import/export stuff in Aus. - you might want to order online if you can't find them at an lfs.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Could u please tell me all the names of the plants in ur tank and there characteristics <---if that's how u spell it! like caring for them, how large they grow, fish eat them?? etc....

Nice progress.

I am about to start adding more plants to my tank, currently have java ferns and melon swords.

I am going to add the following:
1 Amazon Sword (Echinodorus amazonicus) - for the side or background

2 Anubias nana - to place on my Lava rock and possibly 1 in the forground

5 Chain Swords (Echinodorus tennellus) - for the foreground. Looks like these plants grow rather quickly judging by your day 5/9 photo.

3 Pink Baby Tears (Rotala rotundifolia) - for the background. I was going to get Corkscrew Val but changed my mind.

I just re-organised my tank as I have alot of Lava Rock so can't wait to get some new plants.

Thanks for your progress matt.

Opiate: These are all the plants in my tank as of right now. None of my fish are herbivorous, so I wouldn't know if they get eaten by anything other than angels, cardinal tetras, or BN plecos(which they don't). I'll list height by back, mid, and foreground plants, as under different light conditions some plants will grow differrent lengths.

Anibias Nana - Low light, non demanding mid-foreground plant. Can be attached to wood or stone, or can be planted in the substrate, as long as the rhizome remains above the substrate. Slow growth.

Bacopa Caroliniana - I don't have much experience with this plant yet, I just picked up my first group a couple weeks ago. So far I do notice some new growth on this plant, and seems to keep it's color in medium lighting. It's a background plant - or midground depending on how you trim it. Doesn't seem to be very demanding. Shows medium growth speed in my conditions so far.

E. Tenellus - Foreground plant. Appreciates a source of iron near the roots like any echinodorus species I've experienced. Does pretty well in medium light - I couldn't amagine it in anything less than 2wpg, but I could amagine it doing really well in 3wpg. Medium growth speed in my conditions.

E. Rubin "narrow" - So far my experience shows me that this plant is a midground plant in tall tanks. However, it's possible that it could reach upwards a bit farther making it a background plant in my 2 ft tall tank. It also appreciates root tabs, and does really well in medium light, keeping it's namesake red color. If all nutrients are in place, this plant can grow pretty fast - medium to fast growth in my conditions.

Cryptocoryne balansae - I also do not have much experience with this plant yet. I haven't noticed any new leaves since I got them 2 weeks ago - but crypts are generally slow - medium growers anyways. Doesn't appear to be very demanding. Mid-Background plant.

Crypt. wendtii green - Mid-foreground plant. Low light and care required. Slow grower.

Hygrophilia Polysperma - Fast growing background plant. Easy to care for, except for all of the trimming. The leaves get a bit red as they reach the surface.

Ludwigia Repens - So far I haven't seen this plant grow much since I got it a couple weeks back. This is the only plant that I have doubts about being in my medium light setup. So I don't feel that I can give the specs acurately on this one. If it finally gets settled in I'll let you know.

Microsorum Pteropus - Java fern. easy care - can grow quite large, eventually. Slow growth, low light plant. Also attachable to the hardscape.

Rotala Rotundifola - Medium to high light plant. Produces red leaves in high light, and near the surface in my medium light setup. Fast grower, and not too demanding IME. Background plant.

As you can see I've tried to select plants that will do well in the conditions that I can provide. I've also chosen pretty easy plants too, because I don't like to worry too much about ferts and what not.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Opiate: if you would like to browse other plants, [link=tropica]http://www.tropica.com" style="COLOR: #FFFF00[/link] is the place to go. It has a searchable database too.

the_goldie - Thanks! Good luck with your plants let us know how it goes.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Thanks matty,

I can only dream of having a tank that's looks like urs!! mines so average compared to ppl's on this site!!! hehe urs and bensafs are simply amamzing!!! i will take that list of plants to my locals and see what they can do!

What are they like $ wise? expensive?

http://au.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/opiate_net/my_photos

Thanks! *blushes* and my tank is nowhere near as good as bensaf's but thanks for mentioning me in the same sentence - it made my day

The crypt balansae and E tenellus were the most expensive for me - but prices vary widely here in the states - so I have no idea if they would be similar in Aus.

Your tank has good potential - thats a nice looking peice of driftwood. I'd get some background stem type plants behind it and maybe populate the log itself with anubias nana or java fern(until it gets big). Use some crypts as midground if you like them, and you'd have a great looking easy plant tank.

good luck to ya.

Last edited by mattyboombatty at 06-Jul-2005 00:10

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Matty, would it be ok if i saved one of ur tank kmages and got it printed out so i can show my lfs's what kinda look i'm after!! ?? please? I have written them all down! just want some visual for them! i need to update my pics...have no ship in there atm!

Not a problem with me

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Matt - I only have 80watts for my 50gall so that is only 1.6w/g -- do you think the Echinodorus tennellus and Rotala rotundifolia will be ok? Otherwise not sure what I will use as a background plant. I like the look of Rotala rotundifolia so anything similar would be good.

Opiate: local shops in my area do not have very good plants but I have stumbled across this site http://www.aquamail.com.au/plants.htm and I am hopefully going to get my plants from them. Prices seem to be ok. Will probably order the plants Thursday/Friday.

Ah Crap!!!

I have just come to the conclusion that i'm soooooo unhappy with the appearance of my tank! it's terrbile lol.....ok...i'm gonna be back with a vengeance! lol

Matty lead me in the right way dude! i was think of taking all the driftwood out and putting white marble looking rocks say 10 cms off the back wall..then putting a thick wall of plants behind those rocks...with java moss in the cracks of the rocks at the front! geez without pics of the rocks that's doesn't mean a real lot does it... umm...arg... u've seen my tank..any suggestions?? lol

the_goldie - I'm not sure it will work out. I'd search the tropica website I linked to above to find low light plants that you like.

Opiate - I'm no aquascape artist, you should post your question in the aquascaping forum. I've gotten help from them numerous times.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Thanks Matt. I just ordered my plants, so I will see how they go with 1.6w/g. If I notice they are not doing too well I might go and buy a single light fixture to go with my double light fixture to give me 2.4w/g

I also added a couple of photos of my tank before I re-aquascaped it. Will have to take some more before and after I add the new plants when I get them next week.

Photos are here under the Tropical Fish album
http://community.webshots.com/user/cambo05

goldie,

Where bouts are u in aus dude?? Vic? Cause i mentioned earlier that i have never seen such awesome looking plants in any of the lfs around! Aus really gets the   end of the stick when it comes to general aquarier!! can't have exotic fish or plants! it really peees me off!

Goldie my man!!

That plant site is nuts!!! thank you!!! is there any sites like this that actually sell fish???

opiate - I am in NSW. I know what you mean in regards to plants! I ordered my plants from the site I mentioned earlier http://www.aquamail.com.au/plants.htm I will have them next Thursday so I will post some photos after I put them in.

looking forward to it goldie...if it looks anything like matty's! i'll be jealous! hahaha...but...is there any shipping sites that actually sell fish??

opiate - if it looks 1/2 as good as Matts I will be happy. I will post some photos next weekend after I get the plants for you In regards to sites that ship fish, I don't know as I buy mine from my LFS.

Ok I have my plants, planted them tonight, so I will take some photos tomorrow and post

My E. Tennelus looks different to Mattys it has a long stem with little bulb looking things on it (will take a photo tomorrow) and my Rotala rotundafolia doesn't look like the pic on the site that I bought it from Will have to take a photo and ask them as it looks more like Bacopa monniera instead of Rotala rotundafolia. The Rotala (or whatever it might be) had hardly any roots so I hope they get some roots and take off. I have a root tablet near them so that should help.

I have 2 Anubias Nana on my Lava Rock 1 is tied with cotton the other I placed into the hole in the rock, so hopefully they attach. They are only small and I have 2 more in the gravel, 1 had hardly any roots so I buried what little roots it had and tried to leave the rhizome un-buried.

Anyway I will take some photos and get some advice on the layout and see what others think.

My E. Tennelus looks different to Mattys it has a long stem with little bulb looking things on it (will take a photo tomorrow)

That doesn`t sound like Tenellus but does sound like emmersed growth Dwarf Hairgrass.

If it is the hairgrass, the current leaves will die off and be replaced with new shoots. Plant the same way as tennellus and trim the existing leaves to about a third of current size, this will help speed up the new growth.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

"Ok I have my plants, planted them tonight, so I will take some photos tomorrow and post"

No diss. Please start a new thread, rather than clog up this excellent log.

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http://justanothertank.com

Day 200: july 19

Ammonia - 0ppm
NitrIte - 0ppm
NitrAte - Very slight reading <5ppm
PO4 - .5ppm
pH - Tested high from water change
KH - 4 degrees

Observations/Changes Made:
Plants are doing well, even the new(er) ones are starting to grow well. I barely got a reading for nitrate, so I added a little bit from some stump remover I bought for this purpose. I think this is due to the fact that I am adding more trace nutrients and there is more growth and more plants in general. I also tested the nitrates AFTER I did a 50% water change today. I had a snail outbreak after I decided to feed my angels some frozen mysis shrimp - they must not have gotten it all. There is some visible damage to leaves near the bottom of the tank. I pulled about 2 dozen from the tank today while I was changing the water.

Pic:



mattyboombatty attached this image:

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

"No diss. Please start a new thread, rather than clog up this excellent log. "

Yes I am going to do that.

Tank is looking great Matt.

One last reply before I start my new thread. I found a photo of what my Echinodorus tenellus looks like here:

[link=http:// www. findfish.nl/waterplanten1/pages/Echinodorus_tenellus_jpg. htm]http:// www. findfish.nl/waterplanten1/pages/Echinodorus_tenellus_jpg. htm[/link]

Last edited by bensaf at 21-Jul-2005 16:46

Great job Matty,

I particularly like how you are using minimal hardscape and mostly plants.. It makes that nice driftwood piece stand out even more (although lotsa wood also looks great).. That Rotala and Hygro sure filled in nice ! Trystianity mentioned you fixed a sword, by chopping all the large leaves off, I'm thinking i need to try this with my new sword which has most of the large leaves damaged.. (I've dubbed it the mattyboombatty chop lol) Should I chop or wait till I upgrade the tank and observe for now ?

The Amazon Nut...

Thanks DaFishMan ,

I have done the chop but I wouldn't recommend it . The plant could possibly die. I stated that I had done it and was very surprised to see it come back. I would recommend cutting off a few damaged leaves at a time while new ones grow in. This method will give the plant the best chance to survive. I'd also try to find the reason the leaves are becoming so raggety and try to fix that.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

The plant is healthy but all the larger leaves ragged.
That was the way it came. Not too bad though so I think I can save it, I've started by removing the worst leaves as you suggested, thanks for the tip

The Amazon Nut...

Day 229: August 17th


Observations/Changes Made:
Hacked off the bottoms of the Rotala and replanted the tops since they were starting to look a bit raggety. Everything else has grown a bit rampant and needs a good trimming. I've also finished the exterior reactor that I've hooked up in-line with my new fluval 204. This project was 2 fold in its purpose. The fluval will decrease surface agitation as compared to my penguin 125 and the ugly old reactor will never be seen in the tank again . As soon as the new fluval cycles the only things in the tank will be the heater and the fluval input/output.

Pic:


Last edited by mattyboombatty at 03-Oct-2005 21:52[/font]

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

This post will be entirely for the external reactor process. The first thing I did was to buy the fluval 204 and get it up and running. Next I went to Home Depot to buy the fittings and pvc, etc. This is what I used:

(2) 1-1/2 x 3/4" male hose barbs:


(2) 3/4 x 1-1/2" adapter


(2) 1-1/2" female endcap


10" of 1-1/2" pvc pipe



The endcaps were mounted using clear pvc cement. I put a liberal coating on the inside of the endcap and the outside of the pvc, as any extra gets pushed out and can easily be wiped off. I held down the endcap on the pvc until the cement dried to prevent the endcap from pushing back up. I then let the cement set overnight, the directions said only a few hours were needed but I had to go to work and was tired when I got back, so the project waited until the next day for "safety" purposes . I threw in some plastic plants to break up the co2 bubbles then I used teflon(plumbers) tape on all the threads to prevent any leaks and made sure all fittings were real tight. I then drilled a hole for the air line coming from the CO2:




I'm still unsure as to whether I should keep the reactor at the input or switch to the output of the fluval. I have it at the input now as this requires the least amount of work, but if I find that there's not enough CO2 in the tank then I will switch it over to the output. This is the last pic of the reacter in-line with the Fluval:



This cost me $15 total, and this price can be less if you have some stuff hanging around, like pvc or the cement. I had to buy a 10 foot piece of pvc because that is all they sell it in. So the next one would run me about $10 instead.

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Last edited by mattyboombatty at 17-Aug-2005 11:26

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Aw, look it's all grown up

I'd put something in front of the Balansae in the left front corner just to hide the bottoms.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

] Welcome to the Jungle

Hygrophila jungle that is.

It's really growing in, get your scissors! It looks good but just looking at it gives me an uncontrollable urge to cut things! If you chop the R. rotundifolia especially it will send a lot of side shoots and bush out a lot. Mine seems to double in volume every week. :%) the H. polysperma will also grow really thick if you pinch the terminal buds on it constantly.

I second bensaf as usual, you need something low growing for the front left infront of the balansae. even transplanting some E. tenellus over there would do it.

Nice tank /:'

Thanks Bensaf and Tryst - I can try out some E. tenellus over there, but I'm not sure they would get enough light, especially when the crypts grow in more. There isn't any room between the crypts and the glass (dang skinny tanks) so I'd be planting them inbetween the crypts. I agree it needs something though. That corner has always been my weak spot .


Got my compressed CO2 up and running last night . Yay for no more yeast (and nasty CO2 fluctuations/drops). I've got it running at about 1 bubble per second to see how that works. I'm sure I'll be adjusting it a few times this week. Sadly I just got out my camera to take pics and the battery is dead, but I should be getting pics sometime soon.

As for my setup I got a regulator with a solenoid, needle valve, and a bubble counter through work for an incredible price. The 5lb. CO2 tank was a different story though - as it turns out the tank I found in my basement was last tested in 1986. No explanations needed as to why I bought a new one .

As for the tank/plants - I chopped the Hygro and pulled out a bunch of E. tenellus. I sold my plants at work for $11. Not a bad deal IMO, it's definitely better than throwing it all out. As it turns out it's very difficult for The Fish Place to get submersed growth E. tenellus, so I got a good deal on them.

All the plants have been showing the signs of inconsistant CO2 from the DIY yeast. As the temp and weather have been hot/dry all summer, I'd get huge bursts of CO2 and my concoction would only last about a week before I had to replace it. I've even noticed some algae growth on the slower plants, and I haven't seen algae since I started the tank. So the compressed CO2 should help out a ton with that. I also started dosing a bit more potassium, as I realised that I've been keeping them starved a bit on the K.

On the positive side, I've noticed that the Crypt balansae is finally settled in and throwing out new shoots. I'd like to see those grow in bushy over there. The Green Crypt wendtii are also showing some quick growth on the right with a lot of new plantlets popping out in the area.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Day 264: Sept 21st


Everything is looking good, and I haven't updated in a while so I thought I would. Plus I got some new plants. I bought a nice bunch of lace java fern, I'm floating some riccia, some narrow leaf ludwiggia, and what my lfs said was rotala magenta (which is losing most of it's color under my less than high light setup). All but the rotala magenta are doing really well.

The only other changes I made was my angels. They had to be moved out due to a disagreement between the two of them. The silver angel had taken quite a beating when I got home from work and they just had to go. I took them to my LFS where they will hopefully go to a good home. My tank is now home to a pair of apistogramma Hongsloi "red" (and 6 more cardinal tetras...moving the school up to 18). So far they seem to LOVE the tank. Pics in the photo booth here.

So anyways here is the tank:

mattyboombatty attached this image:


Last edited by mattyboombatty at 21-Sep-2005 21:02[/font]

Last edited by mattyboombatty at 03-Oct-2005 21:52

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Baby Tears is said to be close, but for me at least there is no comparison. The Amano Pearl Grass is more compact, has smaller leaves, and is just prettier

I bought mine [link=Here]http://www.freshwateraquariumplants.com/" style="COLOR: #ff6633[/link]

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Wow are those expensive! My lfs sells most of those for half that price, in good condition(I get them at half again). So I may just end up getting some babys tears

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

You gotta read mine too....if you can find it.

Which reminds me I've been meaning to update that a little, I'm past LF's monthly mandated update.

Well, I found it

So where is the update?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Well, I found it

So where is the update?

I should have guessed that was coming

Well as it stands, my tank is in disrepair. It needs some magical sauce to get back on the right track. It is my fault for neglecting it a little though. This week I noticed something I never thought I would.

I didn't need to trim most of the plants. Little to no growth in anything but algae and the rotala...don't ask me why the rotala still grew*shrug*.

That's when I knew something was really wrong(the algae alone didn't clue me in ). So I tested for nitrates. And phosphates. There was none. . So two days ago I did a 50% water change and added about 10ppm of nitrate and 1-2 ppm of phosphate. Pearling like mad. Yesterday I added a bit of micros. STILL pearling like mad, ALL day. I think I'm going to have to trim a little next week .

So I need to make myself a schedule. That way this won't happen as bad again. The thing is that when I last tried the EI things got way out of hand, but since things are a bit out of hand right now, why not give it another go? I know I'm going to completely re-do the hardscape in a few months when I move anyways, so I think I'm going to get into the EI until then. If it works, I'll carry it over into my new setup, if not, I'll figure out my own regimen.

*looks back to find dosing schedule*

The dosing is

-1/4 teaspoon KNO3 every other day
-1/16th of the KH2PO4 same time as the KNO3
-Traces: 8mls 3x a week
-50% or more weekly water change

That's why logs are good, I'd never have remembered that.

However, I am going to modify the PO4 dosing. I have some great test kits, don't laugh Bensaf, and I'll try to keep it around 1-2ppm that way. I will also be dosing extra potassium, as I know I've needed that in the past. I also bought some traces with tons less Iron in it, so I'll be using that this time. I will also build that up slowly. I'll start 1ml 3x a week and increase from there.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

However, I am going to modify the PO4 dosing. I have some great test kits, don't laugh Bensaf, and I'll try to keep it around 1-2ppm that way. I will also be dosing extra potassium, as I know I've needed that in the past. I also bought some traces with tons less Iron in it, so I'll be using that this time.

Well, that sounds good. By chance we just discussed the dosing of N and P in my log and it turns out that Bensaf and tetratech both say that my P is too high in comparison to my N (which many be too low overall). And my ratio is basically the same than yours, one quarter of the P to the N.

What test kits did you get?
And what is the traces that you bought?
And are we going to see a picture of the tank?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

What test kits did you get?

Salifert. These I bought for my reef tank, and I decided to try them out on some batches of ferts I made up for freshwater. They worked out right, so I'm now using them on my planted tank. If they are good enough for the reef tank fanatics, then they should be just fine for my planted tank.

And what is the traces that you bought?

You may actually have a stake in this company Ingo, the company name is Two Little Fishies. The name of the product is floraplan. It contains only .033% Iron. This is almost 1/100th of what was in my traces before.

And are we going to see a picture of the tank?

Normally, yes. However, my camera batteries just died, so maybe tomorrow after they've charged.

Well, that sounds good. By chance we just discussed the dosing of N and P in my log and it turns out that Bensaf and tetratech both say that my P is too high in comparison to my N (which many be too low overall). And my ratio is basically the same than yours, one quarter of the P to the N.

What is this ratio supposed to be?

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

You may actually have a stake in this company Ingo

Don't I wish I would

What is this ratio supposed to be?

Well, let's see:

We know that we are striving for a a 10 to 1 ratio of N to P, right. We both use KNO3 as a N source and KH2PO4 as a P source.

Using Chuck's calculator 1tsp of KNO3 over 125G will give me 7.26ppm of N. And 1/10 of a tsp of KH2PO4 will give me 0.73ppm of P. So, rougly speaking, I conclude the ration should be 10 to 1 of the powder as well (except if I don't know how to use the calculator or if the calculator is wrong).

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I find that a tiny tiny amount(waaaaay less than 1/10th tsp, like a few grains on my finger) of KH2PO4 raises the level in my tank by 1-2 ppm. It's very difficult IMO not to overdo this, especially when there's already some in the tank!

I correctly mixed my KNO3 with water so that 4ml = 1ppm of NO3 in my tank. I'm definitely going to have to do the same for the KH2PO4.

So, 10 to 1? I guess the best would be 2ppm of PO4 and 20ppm on NO3, right?

I haven't had more than 10 ppm of nitrate since I had the angels. That was quite a while ago. I'll try to work my way up to that slowly as well. I don't want to stress anybody out with that.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

I guess the best would be 2ppm of PO4 and 20ppm on NO3, right?

IMHO, right

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Well I made up a solution of KH2PO4 where 1ml = .15ppm in my tank. This will make small dosing much easier. Thanks to Chuck Gadd, whoever he may be.

Well I have a couple pics now, This is a full tank shot, the algae doesn't seem too bad from here*squinty guy here* :


And a couple algae shots....



To help get things under control, I've been thinking about getting a pH controller, or at least a monitor, to be accurate with the CO2 dosing. Lately I had noticed some strange behavior from the fish and I came to the conclusion that there was too much CO2 in the water...about 84ppm or more. I'd like to take out as many variables as possible, and this is one of them. However, I'll keep trying to fiddle with things for a couple weeks.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

With BBA like that I can't see how you have too much CO2

Correct me if I'm wrong fellow plant people, but BBA occurs when there is a lack of CO2. I can also see yellowing lower leaves, low nitrate perhaps?

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Back in the saddle!

As benaf would say it is better to have too much than not enough. I would guess from what I have been told around here that you are low in some stuff as Nowherman has already said.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

As benaf would say it is better to have too much than not enough.

Ah, but you forgot about the suffering fish part of his saying. My fish were certainly acting a bit funny. Most likely they were asphyxiating. They were freaking out if I came close to the tank, and the pearl gourami was chillin at the top more than he normally does. Things weren't right, that's why I agreed with my test kit that the pH was too low, and the CO2 was too high.

With BBA like that I can't see how you have too much CO2

CO2 alone won't get rid of BBA, or cause it not to grow. I know it's been said, but other things in your tank need to be corrected too. The lack of major nutrient levels is what I would contribute this to. Especially since that nice patch of BBA is Directly in the outflow of my reactor. CO2 rich water.

low nitrate perhaps

Along with the other macro/micro nutrients that bottomed out....I've corrected it, but I'm still kicking myself. At the low point I'm sure I could have used that water for my salt mix it was so pure .

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

CO2 alone won't get rid of BBA, or cause it not to grow.

Oh yes, I know.

Along with the other macro/micro nutrients that bottomed out

... but along with getting back to an EI dosing schedule of macros and micros, CO2 should be cranking.

Bottoming out is NOT fun, no not at all. I'm convinced I bottomed out on something about two months back: didn't dose anything the day before I went away for about 5 days. Came back and the tank was out of whack, like you've said when describing yours, just something is off, you can feel it. It's taken me until roughly now to get things back together. Lots of big water changes and stick to schedule, that should do the trick. In this case though you may need to break out the old toothbrush and start scrubbing, or do some heavy duty pruning.

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Back in the saddle!

Matty,

I am not gonna get into what may or may not be the right thing to do, but for sure something should be done

May I suggest a one week treatment with Excel to help you fight off the BBA? I think it didn't work for tetratech, but it worked twice for me. Dosage would be first day for full tank after major water change (like seeding the tank with carbon), then 6 more days of standard dosage (the one without the large water change).

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

but along with getting back to an EI dosing schedule of macros and micros, CO2 should be cranking.

Yes I agree....but not to the point where my fish are suffering, which is where it was at before. My CO2 has been too high, above 84ppm.

I've managed to get the bubble count down a bit actually. Thanks to Ingo's trick. Hopefully it won't be too low. I'll be checking and adjusting this consistantly for the next few days. I know I don't want CO2 to be low, but I sure don't want it as high as it is.

I am not gonna get into what may or may not be the right thing to do

Why not?

May I suggest a one week treatment with Excel to help you fight off the BBA?

Yes you may. I've thought about it too, but can't find any locally. I specifically went to a place that I know used to carry it to get some, and they didn't have any. I wanted to give this wonderdrug a try. I may end up ordering some online, but I just hate doing that, and I know I shouldn't worry about it so much.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Why not?

That's easy to answer: because I don't know. I think to remember that both of us have rather similar thinking pattern (at least when it comes to fertilizing the tank). What about the P in the tab? Many fish less or more N. I try to run it leaner to see if it works. You and I, we did this all, and probably like quite a few others here, we are still on the quest to find the right numbers for our ever changing tanks.

Guess that explains it

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Well everything seems to be going well so far. I've noticed some good growth on the ludwiggia again. Things are looking a bit less "hacked up" like they were in the pictures, so maybe another picture is due at the beginning of next week. Also, I don't notice an increase in algae growth, which is good. I forgot to mention I got a couple little ottos about a week back. They are helping out a little....not that I can notice though.

and probably like quite a few others here, we are still on the quest to find the right numbers for our ever changing tanks.

I want my angels back, when those dirty fish were in my tank I never had to dose anything but traces and potassium.

This time though, I'm going to stick to it and really try to figure it out. I intentionally started low with my dosing. I'll keep building up if I see any lack of plant growth, or unhealthy looking growth, or algae growth.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

This time though, I'm going to stick to it and really try to figure it out.

Good call You really have to stick to it to make it work, half-arseing it will only lead to trouble. EI seems to be tried and true, work on your own personal levels, but stick with the routine.

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Back in the saddle!

I thought I'd update how it's coming along. So far so good. Or should I say, much better. Lot's of new growth and pearling is taking place every day, and I'm pretty sure that I don't see much/any new algae growth. I've already been fine tuning my EI dosage by testing and eyeing things up.

My modified dosing scheme is as follows:

Mon, Wed, Fri - 2ppm KNO3(about half the EI dose, may need to increase, we'll see), .15ppm KH2PO4(about 1/6th EI), Some K2SO4 (need to figure exactly how much here )

Tue, Thu, Fri - 1ml Floraplan (1/8th EI dose, but this I'll continue increasing slowly).

Sat - Test for any corrections(when I adjust here, I adjust the entire week's dosing schedule). 50% water change.

I have a little reminder card on my desk so I don't forget what I need to do each day. Sounds nerdy, but with my schedule lately I tend to forget stuff....so this is the only way to get things done right.

Maybe in a few weeks I'll have enough new growth without algae to replant the tops and forget this episode ever happened.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Full tank Shot:



One plant that wasn't affected too badly. What was called a Bronze Crypt Wendtii when I bought it:

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

WOW that a really really nice aquarium, what are the measurements..
Am I the only person who wants to start a new aquarium after reading this?

10gallon: 8neons 5gallon: 1betta
1oto
2platys

Sat - Test for any corrections(when I adjust here, I adjust the entire week's dosing schedule). 50% water change

.

Matty,

So you test weekly and than make adjustments based on the numbers. I know that sounds logical, but IMO that is a problem and that is "Micromanaging". Something I have noticed is that consistently is really important. Even if your numbers are alittle off, the plants and fish could make the adjustment to different levels as along as their within a good range. When things shift to quickly that's when problems start. That's the idea with EI, your resetting the tank each week so nothing gets too out of hand.

BTW - Tank looks good I would love to see a nice piece of DW in there.



My Scapes

WOW that a really really nice aquarium, what are the measurements..
Am I the only person who wants to start a new aquarium after reading this?

Thanks linkin. I wish my tank was as nice as you make it out to be though. You should check out tetratech's tank, it's beautiful. The measurements are something like 36L X 12W X 24H. I wish I would have gotten a widerand shorter tank though.

that is a problem and that is "Micromanaging".

<---meddler

Well, maybe...but so far it's working better than when I lept blindly into the EI method. EI is great for the ideas behind it, but it's a little too perfect the way it's practiced. Real life doesn't always work the way it is envisioned in theory. Sometimes it does, and I wish it did for me. EI doesn't consider a few "real life" variables. One MAJOR assumption of the EI method is that tap water is mostly clean of major nutrients. Therefore, it will reset conditions at the end of the week. Sometimes this doesn't happen. I'm taking the ideas that I find useful and using them, and adjusting others. Double checking until things get into a rhythm isn't what I'd call meddling, it's just making sure I'm in those EI comfort zones, and if I'm not, then I change some things. And trust me, I'm not blindly believing the test kits either. I don't blindly believe anything, maybe that's a downfall. If the plants are telling me something I'll believe them over the test kits. Right now they are reaffirming each other. In a few weeks I won't need to test anymore and just use the plants as a guide. Right now the plants are a mess, so I can't really go by them.

By the time I'm done I'll probably be dosing exactly what Tom told me to, and then you can say "told ya so". I think the tank needs a gradual change up to those levels anyways. If that happens I'll never knock The Method again, and I'll go door-to-door handing out flyers.

BTW - Tank looks good I would love to see a nice piece of DW in there.

Thanks tetratech, this comes from the newly acclaimed super planter. I'm going to wait until I move again to do any major reconstruction. But I do want a nice driftwood in there eventually. I could only hope my tank looks as good as yours, in it's own way of course, when I've figured this stuff out.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Yeah I see where your coming from on the dosing. Small adjustments are fine.

BTW - Thanks for the nice tank comments, I'm not worthy. Anyway, once you put that piece of driftwood in you'll be amazed at what it does for your scape. It just adds alot of interest and depth.

My Scapes

Matty,

Something is wrong with the Active Thread link as this is now at least the 10th thread that doesn't show up in my list until after I create a new entry in it . Or maybe it has to do with not having made an entry in a while, whatever the reason, I found it anyway.

Your tank doesn't look all that bad and I hope that your version of adjusting fert amounts will work out well. You and I seem to be the "Critical Fertilators" in the gang and we have to be strong to withstand the onslaught of the hardcore EI followers . At least we don't blindly follow orders, even if doing so will be the end result anyway .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Your tank doesn't look all that bad

Gee thanks....

I will take it as a compliment though.

I was going to do something like this in my signature:

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Micromanager of Macronutrients

But now I think it will have to be:

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Critical Fertilator

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Micromanager of Macronutrients

I would go with that because we'll really confuse the hell out of the newbies

My Scapes

Either way, it works for me

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Back in the saddle!

l
l
l
\/

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Niice!

-P

Well done, Matty

That pretty much sums it up, right there

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I like it!

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Thanks thanks, I think I'll leave the sig this way for a while. I like it, but couldn't fit the link to my reef tank pic in there.

Anywho, today I decided that for now I'm running within good levels for nutrients with my dosing schedule. Looking at plants, algae, and test kits, everything seems to agree that things are back on track. Other than traces, which I'm going to slowly increase, I think I hit a good spot for now.

However, because the algae seems to have stopped growing I decided to bump my lighting up a bit from first light 8 hours and 2nd light 2 hours, to first light 9 hours 2nd light 2.5hours to see how that goes. I did this mostly because my chain swords seem to be suffering down at the bottom with the decreased light. It probably wasn't the smartest move, but it's been 2 weeks since I've seen algae growth and I eventually want my lights to run at least 10hrs, 4 hours and maybe more than that, if things allow it. With more growth I may need to dose more, so I'll still keep an eye on things.

Any thoughts?

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

How much light are you running? I am running 3.25 Wpg for 12 hours with out any problems.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Ah yea, I forgot that. It was 2.25wpg for 8hrs. and 3.95wpg for 2hrs. now it's the same for 9 hrs. and 2.5hrs. respectively.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

I wouldn't worry about anything major happening as long as you keep up with your ferts and co2.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Matty,

Did you do the lighting changes for all last week? What are the results?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Yeah, the lighting changes applied to all last week. I still have some algae, but new algae doesn't really seem to be growing, the old stuff is just lingering.

However, I've been in california since Saturday(leaving this saturday) so I don't know what's going on with the tank right now. I'm sure it will be fine. I'll give a big dose of everything when I get back. I'm more worried about the salt tank, with evaporation and everything. Hopefully my ghetto-rigged drip system will keep down the salinity until I get back.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Have you tested the rig before you plan to leave? Make sure its not got to over flow the tank? Good luck!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Welp, here's my monthly update. The algae is all but vanished, there's just a few puffballs of BBA left, those things can be stubborn. The hair type algae is gone. The plants are starting to show a bit better color, but I need to increase the micros I think, and maybe increase the photoperiod of the second light a little, maybe a half hour. The nitrate and phosphate levels are rock solid with my dosing regimen. I'm pretty happy with everything right now, but I know the aquascape needs a bit of work, which will come after I move, at the end of May.

So here's a pic:

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Matty,

With good readings on the fertilizers and diminishing algae, I would not be surprised to see a major improvement on plant growth. You probably will have to prune quite a few times before your move. BTW, I guess it would be worthwile to create a special thread on the move itself as I can imagine it to be a major challenge. Good luck with that.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Matty,
To my eyes I think that's the best I've seen your tank look. The plants look lush and healthy. I know your going to be moving, but once you move hopefully you'll add a few pieces of driftwood and arrange those healthy plants into a nice scape.

My Scapes

I guess it would be worthwile to create a special thread on the move itself as I can imagine it to be a major challenge. Good luck with that.

I'm lucky enough to move every year. I've already moved this tank 3 times, only once while planted heavily. I'm a pro. It's like an automatic reaquascape anyways, so I figure I won't try to get the perfect 'scape until after that. Yeah, I will have to trim a few times, I'm sure, as the plant growth has increased. If I increase the light a little again, I can imagine it will increase even more. I do want to get the benefits from this "new" light I purchased a few months back. I think I'll eventually have it at 10.5hrs on the first light and maybe 4-5hrs. with both on. More if I can control the algae. I've already noticed the increase in plant color and health, and I'd like to see more.

To my eyes I think that's the best I've seen your tank look. The plants look lush and healthy.

Thanks, I agree except for the tenellus. It didn't fare so well with the algae and decreased lighting, but there are a couple healthy ones in there. Once that bounces back the tank will look pretty nice. And don't worry, after the move I'll trade in the two peices of wood I have in there now for something a little different - more visible anyways.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Matty,

I've already moved this tank 3 times

Uh, you must be an expert then ...

... but did you ever move a salt tank? There is a nice article in the May TFH regarding moving a saltwater aquarium and all the things one will have to (or should) think about beforehand. Might be worthwile reading material.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

No, I haven't ever moved a salt tank. Thanks, I think I will look for that issue, as I'm sure there are some things I've forgotten to think about. It should be warm at least, so I won't have to worry too much about that. I now have about 7 empty 5 gallon buckets, and I'll need a couple more. 9 aught to hold just about all the water in the tank. I'll grab a couple boxes from work for the LR. The corals I'll bag seperate. It's going to be a PITA. I might buy a battery operated air pump, but the fish are only travelling 20-30 minutes, so they should be fine without one.

This is something I don't want to do every year, don't know why I got into it.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

I guess it would be worthwile to create a special thread on the move itself as I can imagine it to be a major challenge. Good luck with that.

Well, I decided that I'm going to be tearing this tank down a few days before I move, and bring the fish back to the lfs. This will reduce the stress of moving, for me. This year at least I can walk without a crutch, so that's a bonus. I've also decided that this tank isn't going to be set up again as an aquatic plant tank.

Instead, I'm going to set up a paludarium. I'll have a nice deep area of water where I will keep a few fish, and some plants that won't mind climbing up and out of the water. I'll make a waterfall and get some cool terrestrial plants and mosses, ferns and cool stuff like that. I'm also thinking about poison dart frogs, but I'm sure those can be a bit expensive. I want to do this up real nice so I'll probably be researching all summer.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

I am worried myself about moving all my tanks(5) not to mention all of my junk! No SW tanks but my planted tank I really don't want to destroy. Going to start a thread sometime soon about it.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

So Matty,

I guess this would mean that this log will come to an ultimate end when you move again

That is sad, as your log was one of the inspirations for me to create my own.

Are there any reasons besides the above mentioned reduction of fish to care for (during the move, at least) and your new love of paludarium? Like - do you feel like you have not achieved your goal with this tank and you don't see it happen anytime soon?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

So Matty, does this mean you'll be changing your signature from Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients to Microorganism Organizer?

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Back in the saddle!

Like - do you feel like you have not achieved your goal with this tank and you don't see it happen anytime soon?

Hehe, I never set my goals so high for this tank. I guess they weren't clearly stated, but since I'm not much of an aquascaper, and before this tank, I wasn't much of a plant keeper either, my goal was simply to grow healthy plants without algae. Actually I feel very accomplished with this tank, I've done that 2 ways. The first was low tech medium light, DIY CO2 and not much in the way of ferts. The second has been just recently after I let things slip, a much more high tech, higher light, pressurized CO2 with a lot of ferts. I feel I got some good experience from this tank.

I guess this would mean that this log will come to an ultimate end when you move again

and from the ashes of the old will come anew.... hopefully they'll let me put up a log of my paludarium up here, since it will be planted.

That is sad, as your log was one of the inspirations for me to create my own.

That's very nice of you to say LF! Thank you. That makes me feel even more accomplished if I was able to get another person into the planted tanks. I'll make sure to update it one last time for you too....I owe you a May update. I'm sure I'll come back eventually, no need to worry. My log doesn't get much attention now anyways, yours and tetratechs and nowherman's thread are plenty to keep people busy.


This is something I've wanted to do for a while, I even found some scribbled ideas on a note card from 3 years ago, including plans for a waterfall. This should be fun. The only thing I haven't figured out is how I'm going to use my CO2 and everything on the paludarium, I spent too much to just let it rust in a corner somewhere.

So Matty, does this mean you'll be changing your signature from Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients to Microorganism Organizer?

maybe I will. We'll have to think of something new, that's for sure.

Wings - I'll help out. It's really not too bad. Being able to cut a few things out here and there really help ease the mind though.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Instead, I'm going to set up a paludarium. I'll have a nice deep area of water where I will keep a few fish, and some plants that won't mind climbing up and out of the water. I'll make a waterfall and get some cool terrestrial plants and mosses, ferns and cool stuff like that. I'm also thinking about poison dart frogs, but I'm sure those can be a bit expensive. I want to do this up real nice so I'll probably be researching all summer.

That sounds like alot of fun, FPers don't know this about me but I used to be a member of the New York Herpetology Society that wold meet at the Bronx Zoo. So I had my share of reptiles and amphibians, mostly during my younger years.

My Scapes

Tetratech - I'll trade you info about salty tanks for info about amphibian needs.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Tetratech - I'll trade you info about salty tanks for info about amphibian needs

Deal

My Scapes

Well boys, seems like you're both fairly well set on your endeavors. Here's some inspiration. On the top right is says "galleries" and if you hold your mouse over the word it should give you a drop down list of FW/SW/Paludarium tanks etc.

Inspiration

Eat your hearts out. I know I did...

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Back in the saddle!

Hmm...those were nice. A few of the fish only SW tanks had a few too many fish in them, unless they had a few hundred gallons of water hidden elsewhere.

The paludarium I liked best was the one with the dart frogs, but I want some water in mine. The fog effect was awesome in the one tank. very cool. Nice link Bensaf, I'll have to peruse through those when I'm setting up the paludarium, thanks.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Nice link Bensaf,

Bensaf?!? He wishes!

But seriosuly, you always have to keep in mind that some of these pictures are taken to be one shot deals, at least when it comes to fish. But just in terms of layout and scaping I find them absolutely inspiring

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Back in the saddle!

Now do you think that the owners really take care of them? I bet not!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Bensaf?!? He wishes!

So the secrets out, Bensaf and Nowher are the same person. One playing the protist collaborator and the other the playing the protist destroyer.



My Scapes

Yeah, I am also having a hard time figuring out which one is Bensaf and which one is NowherMan6. Supposedly, they even look alike (or was that me and Bensaf ).



Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

oops, sorry nowherman....I always confuse you two cause of your posting colors. one of you needs to switch to red letters or something. Oh wait...then you'd look like me...dangit.

ma bad...

But seriosuly, you always have to keep in mind that some of these pictures are taken to be one shot deals, at least when it comes to fish.

But see that's what makes work for us LFS employees more difficult.

Average salt newb: So I got this 55G tank and I was thinking that I could put (insert mouth dropping number of large fish here) in it.

Me: (laughs)

Average salt newb: What?

Me: Oh. You were serious....no that most likely won't work.

Average salt newb: But I saw this picture of a tank on the box that my 55G came in, and most of those fish were in it. The guy at petsmart said it would work to if I did enough waterchanges, like every other month.

Me: Ahhh, you'd probably want 1000G of water in your system and a display of 500G to comfortably house those fish together.

Average salt newb: (confused look)

Me: Let me show you some fish that would work out great in a 55.

Average salt newb: That's it?

Me: Well if you add a large sump and have great filtration - lots of LR, a nice skimmer, You could probably add a few more fish.

Average salt newb: What's a ssss...What did you say?

As you can see the conversation starts to deteriorate from here. Generally they either start thinking for the first time, or an embalism pops. Both of which have a similar effect, massive drooling. At least I get paid for my frustrations.

And yes, I'm exaggerating a little bit. But I do get this conversation at least once a day.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Supposedly, they even look alike

I'll repeat - he wishes

And just for the record, I had the grey on grey going while he was still with a yellow background. But does seniority count in this case?

Anyway, Matty I see the problem. Similar idea was touched on by tetra in LFs thread, about the large amount of fish in certain pics. They should realistically be causing problems for the tank, but the tanks look pristine. In any case, the design is the thing

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Back in the saddle!

That's pretty funny Matty, but brings out an excellent point. Most novices when they go into a LFS they see big fish in a 20gallon, but don't realize the central filtration system behind the whole thing. It's not the size of the tank it's the size of the bio area, etc.

LF, you asked about Amanos tanks with all the large schools of fish. He's a great photographer, visionist, etc, but he's got to abide by the laws of nature like everyone else. We don't know what he's running for filtration. The fish could be dumped in their for the photo opp, but many of his tanks might be off one central system with a hugh amount of area.

My Scapes

Good point tetratech

And NowherMan6, always be friendly to old people and give them the right of way

While we are talking about loads of fish in small tanks:
Have you ever seen the adds that show you multiple tanks in different sizes that the manufacturer offers (as kits)? The all have the same picture of fish on them, just the image is shrunk down proportionally (and they do this on the kit package as well). So, while their stocking on a 20G with 10 platies in the picture would make sense, they show the same one for the 6G, expect that the fish are now so small on the display that they look like some "yet to be discovered" pygmy form of platies.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

That's true LF,

Take a look at these pearls in a 5 gallon hex.

http://www.marineland.com/products/consumer/con_hex.asp

Oh I forgot the tank must be drilled thru the bottom and dumps to a big a** sump.

My Scapes

*shakes fish at manufacturers*


I did see a guy on reefcentral that had a 26 bowfront with a 200 gallon sump with maybe 100lbs of LR in the system. I think he had a 3-4 inch hippo tang, a couple clowns, a wrasse, and a goby or two. That normally wouldn't work out for the best, but he can pull it off because he's got such a large volume of water behind the scenes. He still got flamed because there really wasn't a lot of swimming room for the tang. The water was probably clean of waste though.

There's always some sign of plumbing, it doesn't matter how great a photographer you are, that's 5 gouramis in a 5g hex. And Amano probably keeps each individual tank on it's own. He has different parameters for everything, and that wouldn't be possible if everything was connected. He doesn't drill any of his tanks that I've seen. Most of his tanks you can see the eveolution of the tank, and there's no remote body of water. Just the 500 cardinals in 100G. I never see how he filters the water either though....hmmm. He could have a nice big cannister or 2-3 on his tanks.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

*shakes fish at manufacturers*

Matt! Why do you have to shake the fish all the time?? BE NICE!

BWT it is crap like that, that makes me very unhappy at work some days. Just because someone saw a picture of it, it doesn't mean that it is true! Stupid people! I bet they don't even keep fish!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Matt! Why do you have to shake the fish all the time?? BE NICE!

Sometimes it's the only way to get through to people.

BWT it is crap like that, that makes me very unhappy at work some days. Just because someone saw a picture of it, it doesn't mean that it is true! Stupid people! I bet they don't even keep fish!

Yep, though at my store we have to sell these dumb people the fish they want to kill, we can at least take away the guarantee. Most of the time people will reconsider if they know they can't bring the fish back if it dies. They won't listen to "It's a bad idea to do that, the fish will probably die." but they'll listen to "no guarntee" pretty well.


Oh...and [/rant]

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Matty,

That is a great idea, eliminating the guarantee is something I haven't thought about. Maybe it would be even better to have a big sign over the entry that states: "We reserve the right to revoke the guarantee if we feel that you are too stupid to pick the right fish for your tank"

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

/rant I have built two web sites today!! GRR!! haha

Yeah I have had to do that a few times but I should proably do it more. We only do 48 hours anyways but none of our tanks are conected. Except the salt tanks. But they all go into OT for a few weeks before coming into the store.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Maybe it would be even better to have a big sign over the entry

Nah, we like to spring this on people to catch them off guard. It works better that way.

We only do 48 hours anyways but none of our tanks are conected. Except the salt tanks. But they all go into OT for a few weeks before coming into the store.

We do a full week including marine fish and corals. There are a few select fish we don't offer guarantees on for good reasons. We have individual tanks as well for all our freshwater, and our salt section has 5 different systems and 4 LR tanks to try and keep everything seperate as much as possible. One for fish only, one for corals only, two for inverts and small fish that need to be seperate from other fish, and one for an odd mixture of things.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Well I think this is going to be the last post before I move. I guess I'm not going to do a paludarium. My housemate(girlfriend) doesn't want anything in the house that can survive out of water for any amount of time. So tetratech....deals off. No more SW info for you just kidding. So I guess that means I must continue with my log, though I'm thinking tank change. Maybe a 33L maybe a 40Br or 50 like LF. Corner bow? I'm undecided at this point except for the fact that I don't like disproportionately tall/skinny tanks. I want some room to scape. What do you guys think?

So if I get a new tank, do I start a new log?

Anyways, I'll get to this week's update. Things are going well, even though I keep forgetting to dose ferts due to finals/work/life. It ends up that lately I've been dosing twice a week and doing 5ppm of nitrate and 1ppm of PO4 and 3mLs of micros at each dosing. This isn't what I want, but it seems to get the job done. I liked how the ludwiggia looked ever since I hacked it all the way down to get rid of the algae, so I kept it that way, just trimming it down a bit every week. I detest the left side of the tank(mostly just the bacopa), but I'm going to leave it until I move. I like everything from the ludwiggia to the right, though the tenellus hasn't seemed to come back yet. I doubt it will now, I think I killed it all. I put a little trimming of my nana in the foreground. I think I have 2.5 feet of anubias nana in my tank . That and the huge ball of lace java fern is taking over the tank! Attack of the slow growers! All joking aside...I really like the giant java fern, it's my favorite thing about that tank right now.

OK to the pic: (nice color on the crypt in the front left though, huh?)

Attached Image:

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

anything in the house that can survive out of water for any amount of time. So tetratech....deals off

Sorry to hear that about the paludarium. I'd imagine the paludarium would have been alot of work to keep clean considering the animals that would co-habiat wit the fish.

Plants look really good. I like that lace fern. I saw a 200g tank once that had a few hugh bushes of that stuff with some strategically placed rock and it looked really great.

My Scapes

So I guess that means I must continue with my log, though I'm thinking tank change

Maybe a 33L maybe a 40Br or 50 like LF

I am going for the 40G Breeder, you can do the same and we can have a straight competition

So if I get a new tank, do I start a new log?

Absolutely

To your tank now: I like its look, although some plants need to grow back. Yeah, the fern is very nice. My favorite in the picture is - the Pearl

Gotta run now, wife is calling me for dinner.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I'd imagine the paludarium would have been alot of work to keep clean

Yeah, you're right. I'm probably better off this way. One planted tank and one reef tank is plenty of work.

Plants look really good. I like that lace fern.

Thanks, I'm going to regret getting rid of that one, since I'm still going to tear down the tank before I move. I think I bought it for $3...I wonder how much it will go for now attached to a peice of driftwood.

I am going for the 40G Breeder, you can do the same and we can have a straight competition

Well if you feel like waiting for me then we can definitely have a scape-off. I'm sure you'd win though. I don't have good vision.

Gotta run now, wife is calling me for dinner.

You got a good lady there Ingo. Makes dinner AND puts up with the fish thing. That's a keeper.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

It's funny how we're all getting the itch for new/ restarted tanks. I'm going to replace my 46 bowfront myself - the shape is hard to deal with, as is the perspective when viewing the tank. Personally I'm waffling between something in the 20 gallon range and 40-50 gallon range. We'll see how much OT I make in the next month or so

That, I guess, is a segway into commenting on your tank choices. I would stay away from a corner tank. Not that there isn't enough room, but it would provide a real challange when scaping it, starting first and foremost with the curved glass and how it effects the appearance of the scape.

And definetely start a new log

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Back in the saddle!

then we can definitely have a scape-off

I am not gonna wait for you, instead I am going to enjoy my head start

I'm sure you'd win though. I don't have good vision

If there is one thing that will stop me from ever becoming a great planter then it is my lack of vision. There is no other explanation for why I seem to strip my 125 about every 2 months and move everything around. I just cannot envision how it all will come together. So, I would say we are even in that department

That's a keeper

Yup, she is . Since almost 12 years by now.

Ingo

EDIT: And NowherMan6 - get a 40G Breeder as well, so we can have a 3-way scape-off

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club