FishProfiles.com Message Forums

I agree with Tristianity, those plants are good start with your set up, but in case you'd like some red in your tank you might consider Barclaya Longifolia red form, Nymphaea Zenkeri Red or some Red Moss, I have those three plant with 2 wpg and no CO2, and they still looks nice though rather slow to grow. But I used Dennerle Deponit 120, so maybe that's the reason the plant still alive

A 10 should be big enough for propagation, check with your LFS, mine will take cuttings for store credit. Or even better, trade the plants with other hobbyists and start collecting.

Thanks for the info Frank...and if I do not wish to have more swords could I just cut the runner off and remove it? Or could I maybe let the runner grow a little and then move it to a 10 to propagate them and trade them for stuff at the lfs?...if a 10 gallon is big enough to raise them to marketable (trading) size that is.

Hi,
The swords grow from the center out. That is the oldest
leaves are on the outside of the plant and the newer,
younger growing leaves rise from the center part of the
crown (point where the plant turns into leaves and roots).
With a pair of small, sharp scissors, snip off the outer
leaves leaving about a 1/2 inch to an inch of the stalk
behind.

A sword will put out runners with buds (soon to be baby
swords) at interval along the runners. Gently hold the
runner to the substrate surface with pebbles etc.
The buds will grow roots into the substrate, and leaves
begin to grow. You can "guide" the runners to more
favorable positions throughout the tank by guiding them
as they grow. When the babies have reached 3-4 inches
in growth, you have the option of snipping the runner or
allowing them to continue to grow. If you elect to
snip them, again using small, sharp sissors, snip the
runner on either side of the baby leaving 1/2 inch of
runner on either side.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Uprooting an amazon sword that has spread it's root system through your whole tank is not fun. I'd rather leave it grow except I'm moving it to a 90g tank. This is going to be alot of work. I'm thinking of just selling it to the lfs and keeping the babies to replant and let them grow.

In the past I've pruned them by just removing the oldest leaves. Pretty simple actually. Or you can split the rhizome with a razor blade if it gets really big. If the roots are getting out of control, you can uproot the plant and trim the roots themselves with some very clean sharp scissors, then remove a proportional number of leaves at the rhizome/base of the plant.

how do you prun an amazon sword?

---

''All the clown fish and yellow tangs in the world cant save you now!''

Those plants sound good to me.

I put a writeup about DIY CO2 in [link=this thread....clicky]http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/forums/Planted%20Aquaria/62059.html?200507250025" style="COLOR: #36af30[/link]

Thats what pruning is for, sham. I wouldn't let it get too out of hand. I may go with something smaller, but there is trial and error, if it doesn't work out, I will simply (attempt) to remove it.

Any way does anyone have a recommendation for a co2 reactor?...or even how to build a DIY one?

[edit] nevermind I will just pot a topic about DIY co2 in..well the DIY forum...thanks for the help everyone

Last edited by Nameless at 25-Jul-2005 18:00

I don't know if I'd even put 1 amazon sword in a 29g. Within a year mine has grown out the top of the 55g and taken over around 1/4th the tank. It's to the point that my crypts and sword plant are competing for root space and the crypts started on the other side of the tank. I also have around 10 baby amazon swords. I would look into a smaller species of sword plant or end up planning most of the tank around the amazon sword.

Ok, I think I might venture into using co2, but still low lighting. Is this ok? If so I need help on what co2 reactor I should get. Any suggestions on an easily maintained co2 reactor?

ok, I think I have decided on these plants...

Background/middle plants
Crinum natans
Hygrophila corymbosa
Amazon Swordplant
Hygrophila difformis
Java Fern (on driftwood)

Foreground/middle plants
Sagittaria subulata
Pygmy Chain Sword
Hairgrass
Anubias nana petite


ok, now I need help figuring out where to put it all:%), that is, if it is an ok list for my set up.

Thanks for the list of plants Tryst



Last edited by Nameless at 25-Jul-2005 09:08

Last edited by Nameless at 25-Jul-2005 12:46

Well I'm taking the plunge into live plants. I have 4 empty tanks ready to go and I figured I would try live plants instead of fake this time as long as I'm starting over

Right now I'm just concentrating on my 29 gallon tank. I made a diagram of what I want and where I want it to go.

My main questions are...

-Are these plants going to be ok where they are in the tank?
-Do any of the plants need special lighting or CO2?
-Is eco complete mixed with pea gravel a good substrate?
-And how much lighting will I need?
-Also, would you replace any chosen plants with a different plant? If so what would you replace it with? Are their any other plants that you would add?

Thanks

Diagram:

Nameless attached this image:




Last edited by Nameless at 24-Jul-2005 15:46[/font]

As requested - a list of plants that do ok in low light/no co2, keep in mind that they will probably grow slowly:

Anubias (any)
most Aponogetons, just not madagascar lace
Bacopa sp.
Hornwort if you like it
Crinum natans
most common Cryptocorynes
most common Echinodorus
Egeria densa (anacharis)
Hydrocotyle leucocephala (pennywort)
Hygrophila corymbosa (some varieties are picky, research first-siamensis and stricta would probably be good)
Hygrophila difformis (water wisteria)
Hygrophila polysperma, I would just stay away from the "sunset" variety
Ludwigia repens
Microsorum pteropus (java fern)
Monoselenium tenerum (liverwort)
Rotala rotundifolia
Sagittaria platyphylla
Sagittaria subulata
Vallisneria sp.
Xmas moss
Java moss

I'm probably missing a few, and depending on specific lighting you may be able to try some more demanding plants but I think this list is a good start.

Alrighty then.

I think I will go with the lower light, non CO2 tank. It seems so easy to keep and I really think the Rams will appreciate no nitrItes and no nitrAtes thanks to the plants.

Ok, now that I know I am going with a lower light, non CO2 tank, I will need 2 more plants in place of the riccia and fanwort.

Ah, but will I still need ferts in this set-up or is pea gravel only fine?


Any ideas?

I think it would be far better to decide what sort of planted tank you're going to have before you get into choosing plants. IME it goes much better that way.

There are advantages and disadvantages to both high light-CO2 tanks and low-light-no-CO2 tanks.

High Light w. CO2

PROS:
- Grows MUCH FASTER!
- You can have almost any plant you want without worry
- You can expect spectacular reds, pearling lush leaves, etc.
- If you want a tank that's going to look like something out of an Amano book, this is the way to go

CONS:
- biggest one is that it's a lot of work, dosing, adjusting, trimming, replanting, especially when you're just getting set up. This is NOT a low maintenance option.
- Cost. A higher light co2 enriched tank will cost considerably more than a lower light setup.
- Again, it's a lot of work! higher light tanks tend to be a lot fussier too, with accelerated growth comes a few hazards. An algae bloom for example in a high light tank can cover everything in days!

Lower Light, no co2

PROS:

- low maintenance: doesn't need as much fussing with ferts, fewer water changes, not as much trimming,
- it is possible to set a non-co2 tank up that is nearly maintenance free with a bit of planning. this means virtually no water changes, no dosing, no testing, you just feed the fish daily, top up water that has evaporated and trim the plants every few weeks...easy.
- cheap!
- fewer problems when they do happen
- doesn't need a lot of fussing
- easier for a beginner and less likely to result in failure as long as it's done carefully

CONS:

- grows MUCH slower
- you are somewhat limited on plant selection here, you'll want to stay away from really difficult plants that will not tolerate the lower light (anyway who wants high maintenance plants in a low-maintenance tank? not me)
- it's pretty unrealistic to expect a bubbling riccia lawn or amano lookalike from a tank like this. They can be very beautiful tanks but you're not going to get that unnaturally vibrant nature aquarium look out of it. You're not going to see vibrant reds either. That doesn't mean a tank like this can't look great! It will, it just won't be quite the same.


The choice is up to you. As I said both types have their benefits, I like them both equally and choose whichever approach I want for the desired result at the end. Most of the time I tend to choose lower light, non CO2 tanks because they require far less work from me.

Choose the sort of setup you want, then pick the plants that will work best in your aquascape and really thrive in the growing conditions you're going to be giving them. Most of the plants you mentioned above (other than the riccia and cabomba/fanwort) would do wonderfully in a lower light setup without CO2. You could try the cabomba and riccia in a lower light setup, just keep in mind that it may or may not work, and that your riccia will probably not form the dense pearrling mat that it is famous for. The reason for this is because by nature riccia is actually a floating plant, so when it is forced to grow completely submerged it requires some specialized care.

For the aquascape you have there, I would probably take the riccia out (you're not going to see it from behind the driftwood), and depending on the equipment you'll be getting either anchor it on top of the wood or replace it with some moss of some sort. Again, it will be much easier to sort the aquascape out once you've decided on your equipment and what sort of tank this will be. Since you are just starting out, I recommend a non-co2 tank (much easier on you), but the choice is really up to you.

Alex i think i like your Diagram. I think i will try that only with the driftwood sorta arching back.

Thanks for the help

REpens?

Last edited by Nameless at 24-Jul-2005 17:38

The ricca shouldnt be in there.Youve put the ricca under the sword which is the worst possible position for the plant as the amazon sword will shade the ricca too much IMO.
edit the nana petite and the hairgrass will stop you from seeing the ricca anyway

Last edited by Alex at 24-Jul-2005 17:29

---

''All the clown fish and yellow tangs in the world cant save you now!''

The way the wood is shaped it would arch to the back of the tank no matter what. I just realized this looking at the piece. I tried to draw the wood as it is in person.

This is the updated diagram

(things completely moved around)

new diagram:

Nameless attached this image:



[edit] So would I need CO2? I'd prefer not, but if the plants I want need it, please tell me.

[edit again] alex I can't see your diagram.

Last edited by Nameless at 24-Jul-2005 17:06[/font]



Last edited by Nameless at 24-Jul-2005 17:07

Hello again...

In theory, riccia needs high lights and CO2. However, we know that many things that shouldn't work in theory do work in practice (and vice versa...) so if I were you I would get small clump of riccia and see how it's doing. Make sure you take it out if you notice that it doesn't work before it rots. Part of my riccia is shaded by other plants but still grows, although not as fast as the parts exposed to light. As an alternative you can try Monosolenium tenerum (Pellia) which should work under lower lights. Never had it myself, though, so I can't speak from experience.

As for the amazon swords, I think two are a bit too much. They grow so large and relatively quickly and would two would dominate your tank. Perhaps a crypt would do better in one of the corners. In any case, you can always uproot one, just remember you'll probably lift half of the tank along with it as the roots spread very far.

I would also leave out the fanwort (Cabomba caroliniana) but perhaps because I never had any luck with it, even under higher WPG than your and CO2. Limnophilla sessiflora is a similar looking plant but less demanding.

I'm not sure about the aesthetic effect of two java ferns (and I'm not big fan of them anyway) each on either side of the tank, especially if your'e going to have two amazon swords. There's a little too much symmetry.

Finally, I would personally turn the wood around so it arches to the back of the tank. It will make your tank look visually bigger and will let you do more in the front.

Hope this helps.

Last edited by untitled at 24-Jul-2005 16:29