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Although the difference is only " in height, the 40 looks proportionally much longer than the 50. This would work much better for my idea of having 2 groups elevated. I may name the theme "The battle of the Hills"

Clearly, from a scape perspective, the 40 is better. I would lose space for 100 Espei though .

On to the light. A single 96W Unit would bring me to almost 2.5wpg, which I would consider medium light. Under these conditions, small ground covering plants may not be an option, I doubt for example that Hair Grass would spread there. I believe the smallest that would work is then Tenellus, which is actually rather tall.

Any ideas or other input?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

So I was thinking (I know - always a dangerous thing to do) "why not use that chance and upgrade to a slightly larger tank and have the 29G just in case I find another spot for it some day.

That's a good one, I'll have to try that . I'm so used to going to "Active Threads" that I missed this one.

I would go with the 40g, although bigger is better you already have a hugh tank and the lower 40 will be that much easier to get your hands in to work the scape.

What substrate are you going to use, or did I miss that somewhere?

You know I had hairgrass growing in my 72 with 2.7wpg, but it did have problems with bba and was a big pain. In fact anything low in my foreground with the light I have is a challenge to keep bba away. The riccia to will get it if it get's shaded from above.



My Scapes

tetratech,

That's a good one, I'll have to try that

Hey, if the wife gives me the whole basement (well, at least the main room) then I will make use of it. I am sure that some day I will find a little spot for the good old 29G .

Yeah, I think that I am zooming in on the 40G Breeder as well. Having another tank that takes loads of time like the 125 does would certainly not be good at this time.

OK, so let us all assume that it will be the 40G Breeder .

Here are further thoughts:

- Substrate will be Eco-Complete, about 2 to 5 inches (on the hills). I guess 100lbs should be sufficient.
- Hardscape with drifwood and rocks.
- Light will be a double 96W strip, where I will most likely only use one of the bulbs and maybe turn the second one on for one hour max.
- CO2 - via 5l bottle and diffuser.
- Plants: mostly crypts and anubias, some thin grass like plants like my Isoetes lacustris, and either Hair Grass or Tenellus, maybe some parts of the driftwood with Xmas Moss.

ANY THOUGHTS?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I think your going to like the eco right from the start (no rinsing). I think it still looks good even now.

You know that light - double 96 is the light I have on my 72g. Currently I have the second bulb on for 6 hours. I guess if you use the same light it will give you the option of using short grassy plants, but I'd be careful because:

With great light comes great responsbility......

My Scapes

With great light comes great responsbility......

Nooooooooooooooo

Yeah, that was the reason I already added the CO2 to the list of things to buy. I may only have a bubble rate of 2bps, but it will help when I decide to turn on that second light.

So, does anyone else have any input towards the entire setup so far?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

You are looking at buying a second CO2 system? Would it be cheaper to get a 10lb bottle and a spliting system?

Sounds like you are having a lot of fun with this new tank. Can't wait to see what happens!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

On to the light. A single 96W Unit would bring me to almost 2.5wpg, which I would consider medium light.

I beg to differ ! I'd class that as high light.

A 96w bulb is very intense. It's the most intense light you can put over a tank other then MH. Definately enough light to grow anything. Especially if you factor in a decent reflector and the shallow depth of the tank. Co2 or Excel would be required IMO.

Plant list seems fine, but there are other options too, Blyxa, Lobelia. Maybe one group of stems that grows slow (Aromatica is pretty sluggish), wouldn't go for more then one fast growing stem plant though.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Wings - The big tank and the new one would not be located close to each other, maybe 10' apart. Running a CO2 line accross the room doesn't seem like such a great idea, with tripping and all that stuff.

Bensaf - Hm, I will have to think about that. The last thing I would want is to find out later that the light is not enough and then having to purchase a double unit anyway. Although I don't mind spending money on equipment, I don't like to waste it either on items that turn out useless in the long run (like the fancy CO2/ph controller that is still in the package ever since I bought it 7 months ago).

Thanks for the input,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Wings - The big tank and the new one would not be located close to each other, maybe 10' apart. Running a CO2 line accross the room doesn't seem like such a great idea, with tripping and all that stuff.

Ahh I see where you could have some problems then.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

I think your going to like the eco right from the start (no rinsing)

Very interesting, you don't have to rinse eco-complete? What colour does it come in?

Just caught up with this thread tonight. Sounds like you've got another hi-tech tank on the way - sounds like you're going to have fun. Cant wait to watch it progress.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

What colour does it come in?

BLACK

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Black & you don't have to wash it. Now, that sounds good.

Hope I can find that in Oz. You don't need gravel on top? The substrate, from top to bottom, is all eco complete ? ? ?

Cheers
TW

That's right... aaaalllll eco complete. It's what tetra uses. Seems to be working for his tank pretty well

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Back in the saddle!

Right that does it. If it's good enough for LF & tetra, it's eco complete for me ...... now all I have to do is find it.

Cheers
TW

Well,

In order to get this thread back to my own concerns, the Eco has one disadvantage that I am worried about:

Occaionally there is a bad batch of it in the mix. The manufacturer makes no fuss and will provide you with a good batch, but that means that you pretty much have to start the tank from scratch again.

If I remember that right than this was the reason why tetratech even has the 72G as his smaller 40something was "fouled up" with bad Eco.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I think you remember right about tetra and the eco. What do you expect when you have bags sitting around with water and junk in them. At my store we have had issues the eco because all the gravel is by the window.

H2O + clear bag + goodies + light = algea

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

If I remember that right than this was the reason why tetratech even has the 72G as his smaller 40something was "fouled up" with bad Eco.

Your memory serves you well. Yes, because of the corrupted eco in my 46g I ended up starting over with my 72g. The company sent my 6 bags no charge of new eco which of course was fine. I believe the corrupted stuff is ancient history, but if the LFS doesn't move alot of it who knows. There shouldn't be any white in it, corrupted eco has a milky white fluid in it. I believe calcium carbonite got mixed in to the bad batches. Remember most of Carib-Sea product is saltwater substrate so some of the stuff for their reef/saltwater got mixed in.

My Scapes

Tetra,

Is there any problem with clouding at all using Eco-Complete? If you seen my 10 Gallon log the ADA soil clouds really bad. It says not to rinse as well, but it has very fine dust all through it which my filter doesn't handle.

Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

So to sum up my current requirements:

Please let me know what you think

- 40G Breeder Tank
- 1x96W freshwater PC (6,700K)
- 200W heater
- Eheim Pro II 2026 Filter
- Pressurized CO2

Did I forget anything?

Ingo

PS: Rick, I am sure tetratech will reply to your question, I just don't know anything about the ADA substrate other than what I told you already. Maybe call Jeff again

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Is there any problem with clouding at all using Eco-Complete? If you seen my 10 Gallon log the ADA soil clouds really bad. It says not to rinse as well, but it has very fine dust all through it which my filter doesn't handle.

I think any substrate will cloud the water alittle, but I don't remember the eco staying cloudly more than a few days.

I would do alot of water changes which should eventually get rid of it. You could also use a finer filter media that will catch smaller particles.

My Scapes

Hmmm.... getting confusing. You day you plan Anubias etc but worried light might not be enough. I still think the 96 watt pc would be fine.

I'd try the ADA soil ! Not much price difference with the eco. Never heard of anyone else having clouding issues. Besides we needa guinea pig for some Amano products.

Off topic. I'm heading to Singapore on Sunday night for a couple of days. You now what that means - lots of tank shopping and rare plant smuggling I'm determined to get my hands on a ADA diffuser. Have a list of rare plants I want to try too.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Re the ADA versus eco complete. Here's extract from an aussie supplier today. The prices are all AU$, but thought you might be interested in his comments.

Eco-Complete has an expected lifespan of 24-36mths, similar to the Seachem product, whereas ADA lasts over 10yrs.

For 9.2kg's of EcoComplete you would be looking at approx $75
9kg's of ADA Amazonia is $62.95 (powder form $102.95)
7kg's of Seachem Flourite is $69.95
7kg's of Seachem Onyx is $69.95

HTH

Cheers
TW

Also, NowhereMan6 posted this in one of my threads. I agree, it's very interesting. (Thanks NowhereMan6)

Found this link interesting.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/photo-album/30369-ada-90cm-tank-journal.html

It was made by Jeff senske, the guy at ADA and it shows how he set up one client's tank. Note the way he set up the substrate and how densely he planted from the start. Good advice to follow, me thinks

Cheers
TW

Hmmm.... getting confusing

i think Bensaf is right about that. I am not the one asking for ADA soil, and I decided on a single strip unit.

Maybe this thread has fulfilled its purpose, which was to identify the tank size. A 40G Breeder it is

I made the same mistake that I usually tell others not to do: "Don't plaster one thread with 50 different questions as the situation will become confusing"

As such, feel free to continue the discussion on topics like ADA soil and others, I myself will create a new thread asking more specifically about the hardware wor this tank.

Thanks folks, as always you have been a great help so far,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Eco-Complete has an expected lifespan of 24-36mths, similar to the Seachem product, whereas ADA lasts over 10yrs.

What happens to the Eco after 24-36mths? Does it turn into a pumpkin?

My Scapes

Probably just his sales pitch to me. I asked him for eco-complete, which he was going to have to do as a special order. He's just started stocking the ADA products, so he was trying to swing me across.

Sorry, Ingo, didn't mean to confuse your thread. Thought as you'd mentioned Eco Complete was to be your substrate, thought you might have had a comment about LFS comment re Eco.

Cheers
TW

I'm determined to get my hands on a ADA diffuser

Try to get your hands on one of those beautiful lily pipes too

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Back in the saddle!

TankWatcher,
Only thing I could think of is that eco comes "complete" with alot of macro and other trace elements and that they disapate after 24-36mths. Even if that was the case it doesn't really matter because you still have to dose these things in the water column.

Nowher,
The lily pipe makes the nice swirl on top of the water, right.

My Scapes

No problem Robyn,

I have no issues with having this thread takeing a live of its own as I am interested in the discussed topics as well

So, NowherMan6, what does the beautiful lily pipe do except sucking out water?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Maybe call Jeff again

If the tank doesn't clear up in a week or so I may. Who knows by the time I get this tank set up Jeff and I may be bestest buds ... or he'll get caller ID!



Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

I don't know if I've mentioned before but Jeff Senske is without doubt my favorite scaper. Yep I even like his work more then Amano's.

He always uses very easy plants so it's a scape anybody can do - with the right vision.

LF - note how he didn't use 1 big piece of wood , rather he built a solid looking structure from smaller pieces

It also shows why I'll never have a hood on any of my tanks. I love open topped tanks. Much more attractive to look at and maintain. Never had a problem with jumping fish either.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

I don't know if I've mentioned before but Jeff Senske is without doubt my favorite scaper.

Then you would love his showroom. When I went to pick up the soil I was amazed by the tanks he has in there. I almost didn't go back to work. All I needed was a lawn chair and a beer and I could have sat and looked at his tanks all day!!

Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

So, NowherMan6, what does the beautiful lily pipe do except sucking out water

I was actually talking about the pipe that does nothing but spit out the water .. but it's just so damn nice to look at.

Isn't it amazing that there's this big world of aquascaping and planted tanks out there, thatwe're just startign to scratch the surface of over here? Wish the hobby was as advanced over here as it is in Asia


Bensaf,

What's the deal with Senske - is he a student of Amano (not literally, but in terms of design) or what? His site sells ADA products so they have to be related somewhow, but why him?

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Back in the saddle!

Jeff and his brother Mike (another great 'scaper) run ADG. It started as a company doing tanks for clients. People have been bemoaning for a long time the lack of availability of Amano products. Amano has said that it's due to the difficulty in finding a distributor willing to take on a line of products for such a small niche market. The Senske brothers decided to give it a shot while still maintaining their core design/maintenance business.

They have spent some time with the "master" , don't know if you'd call them students though. They have a great web site which I've forgotten the address of, but you could google ADG.

Certainly there's a wider choice and much easier availability of plants and equipment here in Asia. Especially in places like Singapore, Taiwan and Hong Kong where aquascaping is considered almost an art form and has it's own unique style, very different from a US or European style. The planted tank scene is just starting to expand in places like Indonesia, Tailand and Vietnam. Here in Indo planted tanks have slowly but surely become more popular then marine tanks.

They are a bit behind on the science of it, but with the style of tanks they do (lower light and smaller slower plants then typically used in the US) they get away with it.

Amano products are expensive(with the exception of the soils which are very competeively priced) and some are ridiculous (Riccia thread anybody?) but they work very well
and are beautifully designed and works of art in themselves. Are any of them neccessary for success? Certainly not, but if you can afford it they have an aesthetic that, forgetting about their practical benefits, only can add to the beauty of a tank. So yeah if you can afford it go for it.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Thanks for the info Bensaf. I have seen their website, in fact I spend a fair amount of time looking at it at aquariumdesigngroup.com. There's something different about the way Senske seems to do things from ammano - maybe that amano has a more minimalist style sometimes. Can't put my finger on it right now as I've just returned home from mccann's. But Senske seems to use swords - and large swords at that - moreso than Amano, from the pics I've seen anyway. Perhaps this is due to the custom size tanks Senske has to work with for clients etc, whereas Amano can choose his own canvas... not sure, but there are clear similarities and clear differences.

To be honest their main products aren't TOO overpriced. Considering a new AGA 46 gallon glass bowfront tank can cost $130 dollars or so, $200 for the seamless, rimless 42 gallon work of art isn't too bad - add more money for shipping of course, but it isn't outlandish.

Need to start working more OT

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Back in the saddle!

Considering a new AGA 46 gallon glass bowfront tank can cost $130 dollars or so, $200 for the seamless, rimless 42 gallon work of art isn't too bad

Except when you start reading the Extended Information section. There you find out that all but one size of tank (much smaller) are special orders with very special shipping (and with that comes cost). That is the reason why I buy all my tanks locally. I just cannot afford (or I don't want to) to pay extra for a nicer tank and then double that money for shipping.

Plus, most would require a "custom" stand as well, if you don't place them on a counter top or the like.



Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I don't know if I've mentioned before but Jeff Senske is without doubt my favorite scaper

So there's another good scaper with the name Jeff?

My Scapes

So there's another good scaper with the name Jeff?

Are you publicly revealing your identity?

I am impressed, this is so non-tetratech like

And yeah, I think the other Jeff is almost as famous as you are

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

go for the 50g i have a 50g and i cant complain one tiny little bit, not to big, not to small .......... perfect !