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This shot was taken immediately after the tank was filled & the filter turned on. I was really pleased that I did not have any clouding in the water at all. It was cyrstal clear from the first - although with my poor camera, it may not be apparent. Again, ignore the purple - it's just not there in real life.


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Cheers
TW

Here's another shot


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Cheers
TW

And another. The substrate looks the true colour here.

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Cheers
TW

another

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Cheers
TW

another. This is an anubia, but can anyone tell me the variety. I really like it, but LFS only had the one. I'd like to order more in, but don't know it's variety.

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Cheers
TW

Robyn,

Very nice, make sure to check the ph frequently (10 times a day ) so we know when and by how much it drops.

A few thoughts:

- "I've purposely left a gap in the middle without plants." --- Why? I would not do that. I would suggest to forget about beauty for the time being and cram that sucker with fast growers. Your tank should be full of goodies now and rather limited amounts of taking them up. Who do you think is going to make use of them?

- The Anubias pictures looks like a Nana. How did you plant it? Did you make sure the rhizome is all above the substrate?

- You already have fish in there? Again, with the limited plant mass you may experience a cycle.

- I didn't see the entry that your hubby won the other tank until now . I have no idea if you dropped off my Active Thread list or why I missed that. In any way -

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Is there a period of time after set-up where I don't need to add my dry ferts. I guess as this is much the same size as the 20G, so they would both share the same fert. schedule.

My plan is to dose with Flourish Excel as per bottle instructions, every 2nd day. To dose with traces on the days in-between in accordance with bottle. Dry ferts, I thought maybe just once a week (mid-week), say 1/4 tspn KN03 & just a pinch of KH2P04.

Does this sound right?

Cheers
TW

I'll test the pH before I go to bed & see what it is. I bought one of those pH pen type testers (I broke my last one, which worked just fine until I put the wrong end in the water My new one, I just can't calibrate it right. Just gives nonsense readings - so it'll be back to the test kits, which I find hard to tell which colour is which.

Your tank should be full of goodies now and rather limited amounts of taking them up. Who do you think is going to make use of them?

Oh, ok. I thought I had a lot of wisteria in there to take care of that, but point taken. Thing is, I now won't be able to get more till the weekend. Maybe I might move some of my java moss balls from the 43.5G. I also have a crypt attached to a rock that I can borrow from that tank & put in this tank. I also have some java moss that I can tie to some slate & put in there temporarily. Will that be enough?

We must have been posting at roughly the same time, as I put in a question about ferts. Do I have the amounts roughly right - but taking in your comments about already having lots of goodies & not much being taken up - should I hold off from implementing a fert schedule for a couple of weeks?

The Anubias pictures looks like a Nana. How did you plant it? Did you make sure the rhizome is all above the substrate?

I found it a funny thing to plant & didn't quite know what to do with it. It had a long horizontal stem, with roots coming out from that. I lightly pushed it into the substrate & so far it's staid put. Is it that vertical stem thing that I shouldn't put below the surface. The roots are so short, I can barely see how it will stay down.

You already have fish in there? Again, with the limited plant mass you may experience a cycle

I had fish in there previous to today's planting & the tank appeared to have finished it's cycle. The same water went back in after the planting that was in the tank before the planting. However, I must have taken too long with the filter off, or it's something in the substrate, but I'm now showing ammonia again - barely testable, but there. When I realised that, I took some fresh matrix & also half the sponges from the 43.5G & put them in this tank to kick start the cycle (again).

I have about 3 weeks or so to get ready for the new residents. These links came from the supplier (not my actual fish, but examples of the species & what they may look like). I assume these are the very best specimens & guess I shouldn't hope mine look as fine as these, but here is a shot of a female http://web.telia.com/~u31506898/bilder/dehanefemale2.jpgand here's one of a male http://www.aquariumhobbyist.com/wacichlids/images/dehanesm.jpg. The rocky caves I want to silicone will be for them & I do want them in place by the time they arrive.

Thanks for the advice & words of encouragement.


Cheers
TW

Tested pH from the tap. My kit only shows up to 7.8 & tap water tested at least that, if not higher. It was probably around pH 8.

Tested from the tank. I finished set up around 5.30pm Sydney time & it's now 11.30pm. pH has dropped to 7.0. I had expected lower, but maybe it takes time. I'd like to see it at around 6.5.





Cheers
TW

Robyn,

Wow - 3 entries to reply to

First off, yeah - I think your dosing schedule sounds good, at least to get started. Make sure that you frequently test your parameters to detect any short-comings (or over-ferting) in time so you can correct it before problems occur.

Next - Crypts and Moss Balls will not do too much for stabalizing the tank, in particular the balls grow way too slow (and might get all gunked up with diatoms or algae in the process). But something is better than nothing, I think.

Anubias: the definition of roots based on their orientation is a little weak as it depends on how they have grown (upwards on a rock, flat on something, etc). Basically, the Rhizome is the fat part that has the leaves coming out on the top and the usually whitish roots at the bottom (roughly). You want to make sure that this rhizome is not buried, not even partially.

Fish Species: Looking very nice Robyn, let's hope that it works out this time.

PH: a drop from 8 to 7 within 6 hours is pretty steep, if you ask me. What is the latest reading now that even more time has passed?

Enough for now,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Off topic - just got home from celebrating my daughter's 18th (Wings, yes she's the one you said was a cutie).

Back to topic.

pH tested 6.5, which was what I was promised. Hope that drop wasn't too rough on the resident fishies, but it's probably not too much different to what happened in my C02 tank.

For this tank, I'm happy with the pH lowering - I hope it lasts as promised.

Water is still crystal clear. So far, I'm very happy with my substrate choice.

Cheers
TW

Happy Birthday to your daughter. When is a person considered an Adult with all the rights (and duties) in Australia?

And with the ph: sounds good. Keep us posted if it falls even more. The one question that still lingers in my head is the ph lowering ability of ADA soil. What is the lowering based on (not meaning peat, but ph) ? Does it drop by a certain level no matter what the starting point is (oh, btw, I would assume that if your starting ph is 7 then the end result would probably be more than 1.5 less based on the logarithmic scale of the ph), or does it balance itself always at a certain value (for example 6.5) not caring at what level you come in?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

When is a person considered an Adult with all the rights (and duties) in Australia?

Well, they get their learner's license to drive at 16, then provisional license at 17 (you have provisional license for 2 yrs, before full license at 19). At 18, you can drink & vote. 21 is still the bigger birthday, but 18 is when all the other stuff comes into play - so 21 is just the traditional big birthday. This might just be the mum talking, but I wish all this stuff didn't come till she's older.

Does it drop by a certain level no matter what the starting point is

No where on the instructions does it mention a fixed pH level that it will drop to, just that it will lower the hardness and pH level & that it's not recommended with fish that prefer high pH. The supplier of my imported fish is the one that said it would take me to 6.5 & leave me there, but I can find no written confirmation of that on the packaging or instructions - so it will all be an experiment to see what happens.

Anyway, here is a shot of the tank 24hrs later. The temporary plants are in place, although I note your comments. They're all I had at hand. It may still look like there is a gap behind the anubias, but the darkness is java moss (tied to some fake plants & had hanging around).



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Cheers
TW

Thanks for the info, Robyn

The new picture looks nice, I like the Wisteria curtain

Yeah, I guess we will have to wait a while to see what the ph is going to do.

About the KH lowering process: Does that mean that you will have to make sure you still have some left?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

About the KH lowering process: Does that mean that you will have to make sure you still have some left?

My KH tests at 2, which is the same as the water from my tap tests. (Strangely, my 43.5G still tests at KH 5 - so something in that tank must be raising it). But back to this tank, do I need to do anything about KH 2? I remember Bensaf saying that 3 was fine & not to mess with it, but is 2 too low? Should I be doing something with baking powder - how much? Does baking powder mess with pH?

I was looking at my tank full shot pic, just after water went in, then comparing the 24 hour later shot. I'll put the photos here again for ease. Note in the 1st pic you can see the heater, just to the left of centre, poking up above the wisteria. Also note there is quite a big expanse of the back of the tank showing up.

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Cheers
TW

This is 24 hours later. The wisteria is now above the heater, although you can still see the heater through the wisteria, if you're looking for it.


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Cheers
TW

Here's a shot 48 hrs after planting. You can't see the heater anymore. The wisteria has almost reached the water surface, in fact one stem near the left front side has reached the top & is bending over a little. The wisteria in hubby's tank has barely grown & I can only suspect it is the goodies in the soil are are responsible for the good growth.

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Cheers
TW

Oooooohhhhh,

Now that is some nice growth

Or maybe your Wisteria is floating up and the stems are not in the substrate anymore

Sure looks like the Wisteria is taking off like mad. So, besides the substrate, are all other parameters the same, including light source (and age) ? It is very hard to compare two tanks that run under a set of different conditions and single out one of these as the success maker. But I have no doubt that the substrate has something to do with it.

About the KH: I don't think you should mess with it at all as you are not injecting CO2 in any form (other than Excel, which is different). Raising the KH is neeeded to create a buffer for the CO2, otherwise your ph would drop too low. Excel does not alter the ph.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

So, besides the substrate, are all other parameters the same, including light source (and age) ?

Both substrates/planting are about the same age, but the non ADA tank had maybe a 4 day head start. It does have lower light though. It has approx 1.1 wpg, the ADA tank has 1.4wpg. They are both these kit aquariums where light is pretty bad. The ADA soil feels so much nicer to plant things in too. My other gravels now feel really heavy, where as this stuff is really light. I really like the colour too, it's not black - but somehow still looks darker than my black gravel. The black gravel now looks grey.

Cheers
TW

My wisteria is growing quite fast, but it is yellow & not lush looking. What causes this, is it a lack of ferts? With this tank on six days a week, it is dosed alternatively with excel & traces. Then once a week it gets just a pinch of KH2P04 & 1/4 tspn KN03.

No C02 in this tank.

Any suggestions on what would help? Thanks in advance.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

Sometimes, yellowing is a sign of a lack of N. Here is Chuck Gadds list of possible reasons for problems with plants, all nutrient related.

So you add macors once a week and traces 3 times? Why? That may be the problem, I would think that you should add traces as often as you add macros.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Oh, ok. Somehow, I thought I read somewhere that because the tank doesn't have C02, that I only needed to add the ferts once a week. Forgive the ignorance, but are macros the ferts?

So should I add the macros, at the dosage I mentioned, but 3 times a week, same as I add the traces 3 times a week?

Thanks for the link. I'll have a read there too.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

Macros are N, P, and K - the rest is considered micros and usually "fed" as a pre-mixed solution, albeit some people add extra iron, calcium, and magnesium (and what not) to achieve better values for their specific plants.

I found that my low tech / medium light tanks can get by with one "feeding" per week, but only if I also perform 50% water changes at least every other week. I am sure better growth would be achieved if I "fed" twice a week and did weekly 50% water changes, but time is short.

I would suggest to add macros on the day of the water change (plus the Excel), and micros the following day. Then, if you want to, repeat 3 days later. For both my smaller tanks (20 and 29) I add 1/4tsp of KNO2 and 1/32 of P (have some in the tab water already), plus about 30ml of traces (Tropica Master Grow).

Hope this helps,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks again Ingo.

I would suggest to add macros on the day of the water change (plus the Excel), and micros the following day. Then, if you want to, repeat 3 days later.

I'll follow this then, minus the repeat 3 days later initially. If things don't imporve, then I'll do the 3 day later dose too. I'd like these 2 tanks to be less work, with fortnightly water changes.

BTW, I hope anyone checking this post, might also have a look at my other thread,http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/threads/28869.2.htm?38# where I'm looking for lighting advince on a tank yet to be set up.

Thanks in advance.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

Already answered in the other post, maybe you can PM tetratech so he knows about the question.

About the fertilizing: yeah, keep an eye open for how well plant growth is, it for sure will be much slower than the CO2 tank. As long as you have growth and not die-offs you should be ok with whatever routine you decide upon.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks Ingo for the advice (about the ferts & the pm suggestion, both of which I've taken)

Cheers
TW

I'm making some slate creations, which I thought I'd document here. I started off with pieces of slate, which I broke into smaller pieces with a hammer.

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Cheers
TW

Then I started to silicone pieces together to create pillars & little bridge type structures.

The error I made was in using clear silicone, as you can see the clearness of it between the layers of slate. I would have been better to choose brown to match the rocks. Here are some shots of this stage.

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Cheers
TW

Here I have them in a little arrangement, which may not show up too clearly. I will play with the arrangement further anyway, so this may not be the final version. I'm quite disappointed in the clear silicone. I hope it won't show up as much when it's in the tank with plants around it.

I currently have all the pieces soaking in water, where they'll stay for about a week or so.

The final stage will be attaching some petite anubia, java moss & some little off-shoots I have of java fern. More pictures when the plants have been secured in place.

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Cheers
TW

Robyn,

I have to say that I got hungry when I saw the first arranged picture. Looks like some nice sandwiches

How come that the color of the rocks (when arranged) is so different from the picture where the slate plates are just placed on the table?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I have to say that I got hungry when I saw the first arranged picture. Looks like some nice sandwiches

Yuk, they wouldn't taste very nice.

How come that the color of the rocks (when arranged) is so different from the picture where the slate plates are just placed on the table

The "table" is actually hubby's chiller for his marine tank. Being winter & cold, he hasn't need to unpack it yet - so its sitting in the garage.

But anyway, the colour difference is for a couple of reasons. 1st because I never thought of pictures until after I'd made them, so the slate is a sample of what I have left over, 2ndly because the pictured slate is wet & the colours show up differently when wet. Also when I made these, I tried to pick out the pieces of slate with the most red (to make up for the fact that my tank has no red plants - so red will need to come from the rocks & 3rdly, my rotten camera didn't cope well with these pics. You couldn't make out a thing, everything was too dark. I had to edit the pics & play around with the contrast. The colours you see are redder than they really are & even look somewhat purple.

As said, I'm disappointed that you can see the silicone so much. These are my sort of attempt to make little hidey holes/caves for my dehane cichlids (if they ever arrive). I'm going to try that trick someone suggested in one of your logs of using black film cannisters & try to hide them in & around these slate constructions, which will be covered with anubia, java fern & java moss. I have no idea if it will work out okay or not, but the idea of siliconing is so that I can remove them at gravel vac times, without having to recreate the piles each time. I hope that it will look ok in the end, or else they may end up in the bin.

Cheers
TW

The fish planned to go in this tank were Dehanes (a cousin of the krib), but I was at a new LFS today and found a pair of Apisto Tefe Bitaeniet. So they are currently settling into their new home & will be instead of the Dehanes.

Cheers
TW

Wow Robyn,

From my search On The Web this seems to be an awesome locking fish. BTW, its name is Apistogramma bitaeniata tefe. Very pretty .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks Ingo so much for the link. I will save that to my shortcuts. I did a google search - I wonder why that didn't come up for me.

I love this fish, but his wife is much plainer than the wife of my other apisto. I got worried about buying the dehane, there were always delays and I've never even seen a dehane in real life - only a picture. Decided I didn't really like the idea of buying a fish I've never seen. So, I've told the the guy I fell in love with this fish & just had to have it (which is true). Also, got sick of this tank being empty.

Thanks again.

Cheers
TW

You are welcome Robyn,

We have a German saying, and I have no idea if there is an equivalent in the English language (not to mention the Australian version of it), that goes something like this:

It is better to have a pigeon in the hand than an eagle on the roof.

Meaning, don't keep on just dreaming about the super things that may be, accept what is possible and do it. That is exactly what you did when you switched your fish options

Now, these Apistos have this jerky forward motion when they look for food. That stop point should give you ample time for a photo to share with us

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I will certainly try my best to get a photo, but so far they are far shyer than my other apistos. They are mainly hiding in the plants & haven't come out at feeding time. I hope they nibble some of the wafer I drop in for the otos at lights out.

Being still a juvenile, he does not yet have full colours, although I think it easy to see the promise of his full beauty & I find him very pretty even now. He has beautiful finnage & showing the hints of colours to come.

EDIT - I see now you've given me the correct name and that's why I didn't find the pics on google. Didn't notice that earlier

Cheers
TW

It has taken most about an hour, but here is the best photos I could get of the male. As usual, I apologise for my camera & my photography skills. It cannot cope with the slightest movement of fish - all is a blur. But, here is a shot with his fins flaring. As mentioned, he is a juvenile and he does not yet have his full colours.



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Cheers
TW

Here's another shot of the male with fins down



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Cheers
TW

Very nice Robyn

Your pictures, in combination with the ones in the link I provided earlier, let me have a good idea on how this fishy looks like. He is very pretty in his own rights, so different than my Apisto. It is amazing in how many colors this family comes.

Any chance you can show us the female?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

So far, she hides more, but she has been out a little more today - just not when I had my camera ready. Although she hides, I don't think she is particularly hiding from the male. When she has been out, she has crossed paths with him & there is no bullying. I think she is just reclusive. Hopefully she will gain confidence as she settles in.

I'll post a pic of her when I can. My step daughter is coming to Sydney this weekend & I'm hoping she brings her camera. I'm also hoping it's better than mine

Yes, they are so many different varieties. Eventually I want to get an apisto (but something different) for the phantom 4ft tank

Cheers
TW

Here's a poor shot of the female.


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Cheers
TW

and here are husband & wife together (at least I hope that's what they decide to be)

She's is out & about a little more today (but she runs eg. swims fast) when I approach with the camera). I was going to do a major trim & thinning down of the plants today, but I may leave that so she can settle in & feel comfortable, before I start rearranging her world.



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Cheers
TW

Yup,

Looks like a female to me

Maintaining the current plant growth instead of trimming can be a good or a bad idea, it all depends.

If the growth isn't all to wild yet then waiting a little will for sure give the fish some security.

If your growth is so strong that waiting would cause other plants, and/or lower parts of these plants, to be shaded and to die off, then subsequent trimming would have to be so much more severe.

It is a judgement call of the owner, if you ask me.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Cool, now my A. bitaeniata tefe have laid eggs. I'm not going to get excited though, because the apistos in the other tank - their eggs just plain disappeared. But at least I know that these guys have accepted each other as mates & therefore, not likely to kill each other.

Re: the trim. It doesn't really need it. I just wanted to trim it down so I could see her a bit more through the dense plants. However, as she is now coming to the front a bit more, I'll leave it until it's required.

Cheers
TW

Holy Cow

What do you have in your water, Robyn.

Your fish are laying eggs left and right, unbelievable. You should really try to purchase a very rare species, drop it into one of your tanks, and make a fortune of all the fry you would get (may I recomment Zebra Plecos).

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

They might be laying eggs - but the bet at the moment is that I get no fry, but you never know.

They were laid the same as the other apistos, under the driftwood. I found them again when I was about to start the gravel vac & was lifting some driftwood out of the tank - and there they were, a bunch of eggs stuck underneath. These fish have only been in there for 3 days, so I was quite surprised that it happened so soon. I guess that means that they like their new home - guess it's an improvement on the almost bare tank at LFS.

Ingo, your driftwood is big & probably not easily removed, but I wonder if you'd find eggs under yours if you could lift it? Maybe you do get eggs too & they just mysteriously disappear & you just never know about it. Theresa had apisto eggs just a day or so after mine & her's have also disappeared.

If they do hatch before the weekend, they have to contend with some congo tetras in the tank. Congo's will be going on Sunday, but those fish are so quick I wonder if the parents can fend them off. They were a dumb purchase. The guy who was getting me the dehanes (which are africans) said I should have congos as dither fish, as they are same bio-type. I went along with it, but it was wrong. They're too big for the tank, swim too fast & are just too quick to get to the food. The apistos can't get enough to eat with them in there - 'cause they're so slow to come out to eat.

Here's an acrobatic oto, nibbling away on some cucumber.

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Cheers
TW

Well my previously shy female has turned into a terror. The poor male is not allowed to come out of hiding. The behaviour is so different to that of my two apisto Cacateudies. They are always peaceful towards each other, even when she is guarding the eggs.

I can only conclude that she has turned nasty because of the eggs. Right at this moment, I'm not liking the female very much. She ignores the otos, who are even allowed to nibble on the driftwood, underneath which her eggs are attached, but every now & then she leaves her eggs seemingly to check out where the male is & let him know he must stay in the corner.

Cheers
TW

You go girl

Robyn, as long as she is not physically harming the male there should be no reason to worry too much. Only if this behavior continues over a prolonged period of time would I consider changes, like moving the male to a different tank until the span is done (one way or another). A 23G tank is barely large enough as a territory for these fish, I think they require an average of 2 square feet. But I would have assume it is the male who uses that territory and the female hangs with the eggs only.

Well, keep us posted,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

She tries to nip his tail & chases him away. He seems like a wimp & just runs away, pretty boy that he is.

It seems I can't help but make mistakes & tonight I decided it was time for the congos to go, as I felt they prevented the apistos from getting their share of the food. I am hopeless at catching fish, so out came all the plants & when it came time to add them back, I thinned out the plants considerably & left one whole back quarter of the tank bare (I hope to find a blue stricta or java fern tomorrow, to add a bit of variety to the tank. So the male has less hiding spots & the congos aren't there to share the females aggression.

These fish are certainly slow feeders. They are really lousy hunters. I gave them live brine shrimp tonight & I think the male managed to get some as he hid in the corners and the female certainly got some, but I wonder how in the wild these fish manage to catch anything to eat. They are so slow, unless of course it is the female chasing the male - then she manages to find a spurt of speed.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

Very important: Chill

Don't panic now, all will be fine. I know how it is when one gets worked up in a frenzy, have been there myself a few times and I am sure I will be there again.

Their natural food intake is in form of stalking, not chasing. Mine are excellent snail killers. The move closer to the snail, take a good look, and lauch about 1 to 2 cm forward to eat it. That is their style and that is why other fish have an advantage when flakes etc. are dropped into the tank, there is no waiting required, the food is there. I have the same issue with mine, having 6 rainbows and 2 pearls grab all the food. I adjusted thefeeding to not dump all in at once, manage to feed the others a little away from the corner, and dump some food right in the corner where the Apistos are hovering. And they are getting better at launching themselves at the food faster now.

Patience,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Don't panic now, all will be fine

I know, trouble is while waiting for the dehanes (which you know I'm not getting) I read some threads in the cichlid forums & often came across quotes such as "my male killed my female" and vis-a-versa. I don't think she's killing him, at least not directly. She just nips his tail if she gets the chance, but what about the stress of being chased & the lack of food (from hiding) - that can kill too. She is just plain nasty to him, he doesn't need to even be near her eggs. Periodically she leaves her eggs & goes searching for him. Funny, the otos can do anything. An oto was in her driftwood egg cave, nibbling driftwood, with his mouth pointed towards her eggs. She gave him a little nip & he turned around so now his tail pointed towards her eggs & he was allowed to stay & nibble driftwood. I think really, she didn't know what else to do if her nip didn't move him - so if only the male stood up to her, I think it would be ok.

Tank is now set up to let the wimp get around a bit more, without her seeing him. I bought some blue stricta, a type of hygro (spelling???) & some more wisteria, to give cover at the back half of tank. Also got a piece of thin curvy driftwood about 4" high, that acts like a fence / divider. Originally it's length was about equal to the length of the tank. I sawed it in half & then off-set them slightly in the tank, with the high plants behind it. Her driftwood cave is in front of this new "wall". As low maintenance front plants, on both sides, I have bunched together a couple of moss balls & also have a piece of driftwood shaped as cave (between the crypts) so these provide little hiding places in the front section, in case he's caught out. You can't see them (intentional), but I've hidden 3 little 1" pots in the rear jungle (sorry, this set-up is all about giving hiding spots to a wimpy male). My slate creations won't be going in the tank. They wouldn't have created hiding places (only swim throughs) and there's no room for them now.

It seems to work - he was able to join in feeding from the live brine shrimp & got quite a few before she spotted him & he ran.

Re: feeding with flakes / pellets. My Cacateudies are getting better at this, but these guys haven't figured it out yet. I see where they are & drop the food so I think it will sink close to them & they always seem to turn away at the crucial moment, just before the food would have been in their vision.

Anyway, it's probably hard to tell what I've done, but here's the pic. Spot the male top/front L.hand corner. Oh, & there's female down below, under the crypt leaf.

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Cheers
TW

Well, not only is the female a lousy mate for her male, she is eating her own eggs. No wonder she is not bothering to stay & guard them, if she is going eat them herself.

EDIT: She has eaten them all, abandoned the site & hasn't been seen since she ate them all (last sighting of her around 4hrs ago). I'm not worried about her, but I haven't seen the male at all since I got home from work about 7 hrs ago. I hope he's ok.

Cheers
TW

The Wife From Hell

I also hope your male is ok, maybe she will calm down once the eggs are all gone. I think it was Bensaf who mentioned it here, and I know I have read about it, but inexperienced pairs often make mistakes during breeding and are not the best care takers. More often than not they get better the more spawns they have. If you want to keep eggs/fry and your female keeps on eating them, then you may want to remove the eggs into a separate tank. Oh, and also, fish often eat out the infertile or fungus infected eggs from a batch so that other eggs can continue to develop.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

She is the indeed the wife from hell . But the male has now turned up. He is currently hiding out in the tight space between my breeding nets (platy fry) & tank glass. First time he did that I thought he was stuck, but I know better now, he uses it for cover.

Perhaps during the missing hours they were breeding again, but if so, they are used a different spot. I got excited last night, as briefly I thought I saw him stand up to her & chase her, but it has reverted back to him running away. In a separate thread on Cichlid Central I'm asking whether I should be worried enough to permanently separate them (the males survival is more important to me than if they ever successfully breed. I don't have a spare tank to put the eggs or female into alone, so the eggs will have to take their chances, but the female could go into my 43.5 community tank. As she doesn't bother the otos, maybe she only will both others of her own species. But I'll wait to see if I get any advice on this before I act.

These fish still haven't figured out the flakes or pellet thing either. They seem dopey on this front, & always swim away just as the pellets would be within their vision. When I feed, all I seem to be doing is polluting the tank. They love live brine shrimp though & the male swam right into my net to eat them. He even seemed reluctant to swim out of the net. When the shrimp were all gone, I gently moved the net across, so he would be in open water & not in the net without being spooked by the sudden movement, but he just swam back in there, so I just had to move net out & away.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

You could also try the following:

- Add the male to the 43.5G
- Wait 2 to 3 weeks until he makes it his home and carves out his area.
- Add the female
- See how it goes

Sorry to hear that they are such lousy feeders. On the other hand, why would they want to go for bread if they can have steak? Meaning: If you feed them brime shrimp then they just may get spoiled and don't want to touch the "processed" food anymore, like a cat who gets hooked on Fancy Feast and then is forced to return to normal cat food. Just a thought.

And him staying in the net may mean: Get me the hell outta here

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

On the other hand, why would they want to go for bread if they can have steak?

Yes that could be very valid, but I only offered the brine shrimp when I became concerned that I'd bought them home on Saturday & not yet been able to get them to eat, so on Thursday I bought the brine shrimp. Do you think I should withhold the brine shrimp, until they recognise the processed stuff as food?

It is strange, these fish are meant to be tank raised - they should know about processed food, yet don't. My other apistos are meant to be wild caught & they were never a problem to take processed food - seems the wrong way around.

Moving the male might be a good idea - I thought of moving the female, as I'd set up this tank with the ADA, specifically for the dwarf cichlids to mimic the conditions they need, so seemed like a waste if the male wasn't in there. What about if I put the female temporarily into the community tank & if she behaves in there, I could leave her for a couple of months even, give the male a chance to grow & feel like the tank is his - then transfer the female back to his tank & see if anything has changed? No-one on cichlid central has given me advice yet, but I'm sure they will. So I might just wait a few days, to give a chance to get replies on that thread. I'd like to hear from someone who has maybe had apistos behaving this way.



Cheers
TW

Honestly Robyn, I wouldn't know how to get them to feed better, and I understand the concern that they may starve just too well. Are there small snails in the tank? If so then they may munch on them and are not all that hungry.

Moving the female out for a while may work as well, in particular if you would re-arrange the hardscape in the male's tank, then let him settle, and basically later add the female back into the tank (now that she is not familiar with it anymore).

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks Ingo,

sirbooks has given advice just to leave them, but for me to be the judge if I think she is taking it too far.

In the meantime, I've also posted the same question on a couple of the Apisto dedicated forums & I'll wait to see.

In the meantime, here is another picture of my male.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Yes, let's see what the Apisto experts have to say about your situation.

Say, does your male have this black bar through and below his eye? If so, is is black all the time or only once in a while? How about when she chases him? Just trying to exhaust all my possible thoughts on identifying the intensity of the situation.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hi Ingo,

My male has a horizontal stripe on his body and iridescent blue near on his face, under his eye. Sometimes there seems to be more iridescent blue along his body, but it's not there now. I haven't really noticed if it changes when chased.

My biggest concern with these guys is now the non eating. Some people on the apisto forums suggested there might be a parasite at play & recommended some meds. Hubby picked the meds up for me today, but I can't believe the packaging - no instructions & not even a mention of the amount of active ingredient per tablet. I've been told by the forum that I need 25mg per litre - but I can't work out what that equates to, without knowing the strength of the tablet. I didn't know this until after lfs was already shut, so this means no medication until tomorrow after work now.

Advice is that apistos can't resist frozen cichlid dinner -but no interest was shown. I've been told they can't resist live blackworm, so will try to get some tomorrow. They weren't interested in the brine shrimp tonight either - but maybe this is because they don't like where I have them. I caught them & placed them in a breeding net (each fish separate), so I can watch to see if they eat & transfer them quickly for treatment as soon as I think necessary.

If ever I buy another pair of fancy, expensive fish - I'll ask LFS to show me them eating before I buy. I'm seriously concerned these fish will waste away.

Cheers
TW