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My Panda Fun Palace is a nice little underwater rainforest Cory_Di ... mind you, it needs a lot of pruning because the Java Moss and the Hornwort grow like stink under a 10000K tube

Almost forgot .... if you want a truly excellent mini carpeting plant that is more adaptable than tenellus Pigmy Chain Swords .... try Lilaeopsis novae-zelandiae.

Second edit .... if you were to classify my aquarium, it's 'jungle' style .... little piece of South American river in the living room .... I'll link to my pics ... hang on ...

http://groups.msn.com/CaliLasseiasGiantPhotoCompendium/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=315

There's several pics there Cory_Di, including my Panda Spawning Pics™ if you navigate the MSN Photo Album. By the way, the aquarium's become a lot more green since those shots were taken!

Last edited by Calilasseia at 20-Feb-2005 14:25

Last edited by Calilasseia at 20-Feb-2005 14:34

Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

I wouldn't worry about Amano/Yamato shrimps and Corys, although there have been many reports of Ghost shrimp attacking fish (my guess they were Macrobrachium/long arm shrimps and not truly 'ghost shrimp,')

"And daily water changes in a discus tank is not 100% necessary to keep them healthy."

Definitely true. Having gone been through the whole discus nine yeards, so to speak, I've stopped stressing over water changes. I usually only get around to doing one every month, if even that--with no losses to speak of save one who didn;t ship too well. If I ever end up purchasing more discus (I had previously just let the parents ingest their spwans, but breeding has recently piqued my curiousity), I'll probably be doing bi-weekly water changes.

You don't have to worry about amano shrimps attacking fish, they are peaceful. I keep a few in my community tank with cories. I'm more worried about larger fish having them for snacks.
You can create a nice aquascape without any stem plants. I got rid of all stem plants in my tank, got tired of pruning and replanting..haha

I wondered about the scientific name of the microsword. Difficult, eh?

I suppose it is good to design in an area for cories. But I still wonder if Amano Shrimp and any kind of cory is compatible or will one bother the other. I'm wondering if a shrimp will sneak up on a sleeping cory. Then again, it is a shrimp, not a lobster

I think I'm going to steer away from high maintenance stem plants and opt for something else in the background.

pygmy chain swords is the common name for Echinodorus tenellus, microsword is lileopsis. Liliopsis is more difficult to grow. I actually like the linked look, looks healthy to me..heh

corys are not suited for a grasslike carpet, there's no space for them to forage. In Amano's Nature Aquarium book 1, he has an aquascape designed for corydoras, lots of unplanted open space for the corys to "play". I removed my dwarf sag lawn and replaced it with crypts in the foreground so I can keep a school of corys.

Most snails do not eat plants, and many eat algae, particularly per my understanding the Olive Nerite snails. I used to fret about snails, but have since realized that they have a place in our tanks, they are a part of the ecology, and they belong there. Only when one overfeeds do they become a problem.

You might check out some of the ADA tanks and Luis Navarro's (see DFW aquatic plant site)tanks as well, they add a front white layer to the front in place of a grassy field.

Stem plants are planted dense in the back and rocks, driftwood seperate the scape from the front sand.

Looks good also and is natural looking based on many places I've seen plants in nature.

Regards,
Tom Barr

Moot point, Cory_Di, as I've yet to try that little experiment. I wanted to plant this plant in my aquarium some time back, but couldn't find it for love nore money. At least not within easy reach of my home ...

Some day I might experiment with this in a small aquarium & see if Pandas will live with a carpet of it covering the gravel. Given the way they seem not to mind Java Moss festooned all over my current aquaria, it's a possibility, but then they still have some open gravel spaces to themselves even in my current jungles!

By the way, the Panda Breeding Aquarium™ is another 'jungle' - this time the Java Moss and Java Ferns on the 'conceptual art' bogwood pieces have been joined by Water Wisteria, which needs thinning as it grows like stink under my 18,000K tube!


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

I see many pygmy chain swords in pictures. However, I often wonder why I don't see microsword. Are there issues with microsword or is it the same thing.

Here's the one I'm talking about and maybe it is the same thing. I would think this would create a nice grassy appearance, no?

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?siteid=26&pCatId=805

What I find unappealing about using any kind of chain sword for a carpet plant is the chain or link between plants.

What I want to know is if corydoras would burrow into such planted "fields".

Last edited by Cory_Di at 20-Feb-2005 14:33

I've been looking at book 3 of Takashi Amano's book series The Natural Aquarium.

I've noticed some things about his aquariums and just wanted to comment and maybe to understand why some things are done the way they are.

1) Always shrimp; never cories - Why? Can the two go together? What kind of shrimp do we see in the pics? They are too big for ghost shrimp. Amano shrimp?

2) Water changes, even on discus tanks are only once weekly (50%) and in some cases every two weeks. Is there something about the ratio of water to fish that allows him to get away with less frequent changes that have become synonymous with discus keeping?

3) How long, I wonder, do his tanks go before they are broken down? How often does he change substrates? (If there are other published works that reveal this).

4) What do books 1 & 2 get into. I know this book is large and extra large planted tanks. Great pics for good ideas.

These are just some questions and I'm sure I'll have more. I just wanted to strike up general conversations about his work.

Another observation from Amano's tanks: Snails in every one. I take it these are MTS? The leaves are not eaten, so that is a good thing and the snails actually look well in his tanks.

I've looked at the Dutch style and the Natur style. I must admit that Amano's nature style is much more asthetically pleasing to me. I find myself mesmorized by aquariums done in this style, including the many in AGA's website. The 2004 winners, among many other great tanks, just left me breathless.

Eco doesn't go to mush after a yr..

And daily water changes in a discus tank is not 100% necessary to keep them healthy.

I know you do it Bob, and your a good man for it too. But they can thrive in once a week large water change.

Most Discus keepers only change the water daily if they are breeding them, and then after they have fry. This helps promote growth with the fry.

Shannen

Here is a link to a description of the aquarium styles: http://www.aquahobby.com/tanks/e_tank0212.php

__________
"To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research."
researched from Steven Wright

"1) Always shrimp; never cories - Why? Can the two go together? What kind of shrimp do we see in the pics? They are too big for ghost shrimp. Amano shrimp? "

Shrimps are great, they pick away nicely.
Hungry little beast.
He has cories in some tanks, cories don't eat algae though......shrimps do.

"2) Water changes, even on discus tanks are only once weekly (50%) and in some cases every two weeks. Is there something about the ratio of water to fish that allows him to get away with less frequent changes that have become synonymous with discus keeping?"

You can get away with longer periods but weekly water changes is what he does generally. I do the same(have for 30 some years), it's just a simple routine to remember.
Keeps the tank clean and removes any organic matter, leaves, algae etc, I use it dso I can dose easuily, this works extremely well for anyone using CO2.
You dose to prevent anything from running out, and you do large weekly water changes to prevent anything becoming excess. You don't even need a test kit to do it.

"3) How long, I wonder, do his tanks go before they are broken down? How often does he change substrates? (If there are other published works that reveal this)."

He "claims" a long time, but I'd say many are 6-12 months old. The tanks are well photographed, that is one of his main talents and professions. Few aquarist are as good as he is at that part. All tanks have wheels and are rolled to a special photography room set.

The gravel seems to go to mush after 12-24 months from everything I know about it, I'm still waiting. I know Flora base does, the same company makes that. But you can still leave it in there.

"4) What do books 1 & 2 get into. I know this book is large and extra large planted tanks. Great pics for good ideas. "

Smaller tanks (2) and a general tank book (1).

Regards,
Tom Barr

In case it gives any insights, here are some "behind the scenes" shots from Aqua Design Amano HQ

[link=http://www.aquahobby.com/tanks/e_tank0412a.php]http://www.aquahobby.com/tanks/e_tank0412a.php" style="COLOR: #FFFFFF[/link]

Hello Cory_Di;
I'm still new to this, but we've had 4 Amano shrimp and 3 otos (until recently, now only 2; cause of death not related to this as far as I know) in the same 20 gal tank for about 2 months, and no problems that I've noticed.

The otos eat the algae off the tank walls and the broad-leaved plants, and the shrimp eat pretty much anywhere. They generally ignore each other.

As for other types of cories, I'm not sure how that would go.

What is the Dutch style?

His discus look quite healthy for only weekly water changes. I've met people who do 50% daily

Di,

Amano loves his little Japanese shrimp, now named "Amano" shrimp because he made them famous. A good item to note when you see his tanks is that fish are secondary to his aquascapes. This is emphasized by the equiopment for the tanks that is first and foremost for the benefit of the plants.

A continuing task in any planted tank and a task that becomes a major task is trimming the plants. Each specimen has a different growth rate and requirements. In Amano's tanks, he forces plants to go against their base behavior such as tying down floating riccia to form an underwater pasture. Maintaining the pristine landscape becomes a permanent job.

Note that two schools of aquaculture have developed for planted aquariia. The "Dutch" style and the "Nature" or Amano style. It is called the "Nature" style since the scapes are designed to resemble terrestial landscapes such as hills, mountains and forests and not rivers or stream biotopes.

__________
"To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research."
researched from Steven Wright