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Last night.

High Range PH 7.8
KH 17 degrees

CO2 then = 8 ppm

This afternoon

High Range PH 7.4
Low Range Ph 7.6

KH 16 degress

CO then 19 or 12....

What do I go by?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Test #3
High Range PH 7.4 (maybe a little higher?)
Low Range PH 7.2 (maybe a bit higher but not quite 7.6?)

This makes me guess that I am at about 7.4 or 7.5 for my PH

My KH is 17 degrees

CO2 then is then either 15 or 19 ppm depeding on where I am at with my PH.

Will my KH change at all? I have tested three times and gotten 17,16,17. Guessing thats just an error?

My fish are all doing find. No signs what so ever of stress or gasping or anything like that.

My plants on the other hand are perling like crazy!

Any help on this matter would be great!



55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Hey there Wings,

I guess I would go by growth and not necessarily by pearling. A lot of pearling suggest high O2 saturation rather than CO2, which can be traced back to low or moderate stocking levels (as Bensaf has said elsewhere - low fish load, low bacteria levels, therefore low O2 consumption by these two groups, therefore more O2 saturation in the water)

As for getting the exact CO2 number, it's not that important. You're not goign to get an exact number because ph and kh tests are inexact. If either ph or kh is off in a certain direction that can make a difference with CO2 saturation.

Considering your highest test point is 19ppm I would push CO2 up some more if possible. Push it and if fish show signs of distress (gasping etc) then pull it back a little bit. 25-30ppm is perfectly fine.

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Back in the saddle!

NowherMan6,

Hey thanks for you help! This real CO2 is another ball of wax. Things are going really well on top of the pearling. I guess I will bump it up a little more and see what happens. At least I know I am doing alright. Where my PH is at from my tap water it it makes it tough to test with my kit. The Low goes from 6.0 to 7.6, the High from 7.4 to 8.8. I am falling right in the middle!

I guess if there is enough O2 in the water that its not just disolving then its not going to hurt adding in more CO2.

Thanks again for your help!
Doug



55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

The KH won't shift by adding Co2.

BUT your KH is extremely high. By far the highest KH I've ever heard of. I can't even find a Co2 table that goes to 17KH

So high it makes me suspicious If you can get it checked from another source it might be worth doing.

If it really is that high the main issue will be that you have a huge amount of buffer. This will resist the Co2 attempts to make the water acidic. Basically you will need to put in a LOT of gas to get your levels where you want them. You've got water that will resist any attempts to add carbon.

What was your pH before adding gas ? Must have been about 8.5 ?

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

I didn't check my PH before adding the gas. I could do so though from the tap or from another non CO2 tank. I know that our water here does have a pretty high PH but I am not 100% sure how high.

Would the City Water people be able to give me reading on that type of stuff? If so what should I all ask them for?

About the CO2 chart. I was using chucks calculator to get my readings and I just looked at his table. Only goes to 7.

Are there things I could add to the system to cut down my KH?

As for my test kit I tested it 3 times and came up with 17,16,17. Maybe my kit is junk! Say my kit is off but the number is still really high. I would have to get my PH down quite a ways to get the CO2 that I am looking for.



55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Water from another tank and my tap came out to be around 8.0 and 8.2 ish The color isn't the easiest thing to tell.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Hi Wings, my KH from the tap is over 300ppm, which is about 17 degrees like yours, I use peat to lower the KH to about 120 ppm which brings it to almost 7 degrees. My pH from the tap is 7.8, the CO2 brings it to 7.2, not a big drop. I haven't yet got it down to under 7. I'm watching your thread to see what you are told to do, then I may try it. I do like the peat though, it makes the fish look so pretty, and I can tell when the pH drops a bit, the barbs go crazy and get busy, that's a fair idea of what the pH is, but I still test it to be sure.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

That's not water it's liquid rock.

It's not a huge problem, but, as I say you'll need lot of gas to move the pH down.

It can be problematic with certain plants, usually the more wimpy ones.

17 still seems a bit extreme though and worth checking. You can get a water report from your water provider. KH will indicated as Alkalinity.

Check the tap KH. It should be the same as the tank unless you have something in the tank leeching carbonates - certain rocks, shells etc.

The only ways to lower it are through peat put this can be messy and most don't like the color of the water, or mixing your water change water with RO/Distilled or bottled water.

Boiling your water change water before can also lower KH but that's a lot of boiling.

If it's really that high you'll need a very efficient reactor/diffuser.

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Ok talk to me a little more about this Peat stuff. Its like moss type stuff that you use in your gravel right? Would it work to put some of it in a bag and stick it in the filter?

KH out of the tap was 15 degrees. This means one of my rocks or gravel or something is raising it or the test was off. It is right with my other test of 17,16,17 and now 15, so it is not that far off.

Still trying to get ahold of the water people. I keep getting this weird computer talking message that I can't understand then a really loud BEAP!!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Finally got to talk to someone fromt the City water and they said it runs from about 16-20. I guess my kit isn't that far off then.

So about that peat....

Oh yeah... one more thing... I am running a glass diffuser. Are there better ways of going about things?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Hi Wings, I'll tell you what I do with my peat, those of you who don't like peat, just skim over it like it's not there.

I have been adding a filter bag full of peat to my filters, so in my HOB Aqua-clear 50, I use the appropriate sized bag filled with peat in the place of the carbon. Next, I have a larger bag AC70 size or two that I hang in my water change buckets, they sit there for the week in between water changes, lowering the GH and the KH and the pH a very little bit. This usually brings the GH from 300ppm to 150ppm and the KH from 300 to about 120-180ppm. To figure out degrees, divide by 17.9. The pH doesn't really drop that much, not even a whole degree, which works out great for CO2.

The water turns a nice light yellow, which seems to really bring out the colours of the fish, so I like that a lot. I recently bought a bottle of Kents Blackwater Expert to help make water changes go smoother, I have two tanks I'm changing frequently and going through peat like crazy. It adds vitamins and hormones and iron to the water, so I won't need to add a lot of iron, until my ludwigia gets going and starts to take up more. I'll let you know how this all goes. I am no longer aiming for the perfect KH, GH and pH, but aiming to lower it enough for the CO2 to have some effect on the plants. I had to trim my hygro after 1 week, so I guess it's working.

To see how the tanks look with the peat in, look in my thread 25 gallon planted tank, I just added more pics and the tank has always had peat in it.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

In one sense the diffuser is not the best option in theory but in practice can be made to work very well.

Think of high KH like a sponge trying to soak up any attempts to reduce pH. As I said you'll need a bit more gas then usual to force the ph down.

The diffusers work on the principle that the gas is broken into tiny bubbles that dissolve into the water as they rise to the surface (the smaller the bubbles the easier to dissolve). With a high buffer from the KH the bubbles may be difficult to dissolve fully before they reach the surface.

You can counteract this by putting the diffuser down low in a back corner of the tank. Have your spray bar positioned vertically with the output pointing at the bubbles coming from the diffuser. The current will push the bubbles to the back wall of the tank and then that will force them to spread around the tank before rising where they will get caught up in the plant leaves.

This works very well as the Co2 is coming into direct contact with the plants leaves where it can be more easily absorbed then thru the enriched water. Dissolving the gas is not a real issue in this scenario.

After trying a few different methods this one definately works the best.

So getting a good spread of the bubbles around the tank will more then make up for the high buffering capacity of the water.

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Right now I am only running a HOB filter and my glass diffuser is right under the out. It does pus the bubbles around a bit but a lot of them are making to the top.

I have thought about using a powerhead having that spray it around.

Or in my most creative days... just running a powerhead with a spongfilter on it hooked to a diy spray bar. Then either running the CO2 into the powerhead or having the glass diffuser under the bar.

any thoughts?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

I had better CO2 when my ladder was positioned under the HOB filter return. Right now it is across the tank from it and it just isn't the same. The bubbles used to shrink right down to almost nothing by the time they hit the top. I will be moving it back to that position and maybe try planting something to hide the ladder. Any plants that like current?

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Anything that spreads the bubbles around is fine.

Don't worry too much about bubbles making it to the surface. By the time they reach the top the Co2 has been displaced by O2 and that's what's in the bubbles that reach the top.

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.