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I wish people didnt have to be so judgemental abotu things!

Christina,
We are not being judgemental , we're being critical. There's a subtle difference.

We're artists . We are critical of one another. Most of the time we are our own worst crtics !

There's a difference between folks who just want a pretty attractive tank to show off the fishies and they like to look at. That's fine and congratulations to those that feel that way.

Some of us poor fools take it more seriously then that , probably too seriously. We are into the artistic design elements and to some extent the more "scientific" (although it's rarely true science) aspect, trying to control the look and growth patterns of plants through nutrient control to do what we want them to do in an aquascape. We are looking to create very very specific looks, the species of plants used and their location as well as hardscape items like rock and wood are very carefully chosen to re-create the artistic vision in our minds eye. Some want that "slice of nature" in the living room.

As well as appreaciating our own and others tanks we also search for that 1% that doesn't work. This is a good thing. By being critical of one another we can continually improve and better our work.

If somebody wants to put pink gravel and peeing diver in their planted tank that's fine. Not something I'd like personally, but what the heck if they like it, it's fine by me. But if they asked for my opinion , well I'd be brutally honest in that opinion.

I think the tank above is amazing. It's a very natural serene aquascape that's also deceptively simple (simple but beautiful is the hardest to pull off sucessfully). The way the scape flows and slopes downwards is very reminiscent of what you will see in nature. Most aquatic plants will be found on the banks in nature, there aren't too many aquatic plants in open deep water.That tank captures that. So it's very well laid out, beautiful but natural looking aquascape. Then that darn fountain(clever as it is)just ruins the illusion for me. But that's just my opinion, that's just me finding the 1% I don't like. I'm sure Ronny would respect that opinion, but at the end of the day if he likes it , that's all that matters and it's cool.Somebody of his calibre would probably find a whole lot more to be critical about in my tanks, that's cool too, the only way I'm gonna learn.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

You just love to irritate me don't you. You seem to have figured out how to do it so well!
I am glad we can finally agree on somethign though.



Christina

Do you understand where I am coming from as well?

Of course i do Christine. I wasn't trying to get at you. I just had some time on my hands and felt like babbling

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Having been and studied in planted springs in FL, this is very accurate, they have similar type springs in the Mato Grosso Brazil, limestone systems, just like the ones in Florida, but harder to get to.

I think they needed a different design and allow more of a bowl design, but the idea would get high marks from me if I ever judged (which I will not ever do).

Regards,
Tom Barr

Personally, I think the whole idea is dumb, but iffin that's what floats yer boat then go fer it!

p.s., the tubing looks kinda tacky, c'mon ppl its an aquarium, not a lava lamp. It's sposed to be a healthful place for your fish, not an underwater volcano

not bein judgemental about it tho

actually, without that eyesore fountain thing it is a vary nice lookin tank, so kudos

Last edited by divertran at 28-Oct-2005 11:14

I actually was not referring to you guys. I am sorry you guys took it that way! I understand completely what you guys are saying about being your own worst critic. I am SO bad at that myself. I am NEVER satisfied with what I do! Its terrible really how I do that though!

I totally respect your opinion bensaf. I agree with you on your opinion as well. My problem is that people just don't explain their issues, which I have to admit you did just beautifully. People will try to comment on something and say, Oh, I just do not liek that." That sounds harsh to me. If they say something more like "Oh, I don't really like that because I think it makes it look less natural." That would have sounded like constructive criticism, but most people don't want to take the time to explain their reasoning for something like that and a lit of the time it jsut makes people sound mean.

Do you understand where I am coming from as well?



Christina

Personally I like it. I have actually seen it in nature doing just like that. I have SCUBA dived many spring rivers in Florida, and you can see this activity in most all of them. It is really an interesting sight. The problem in most tanks, is the need for a rather deeper substrate. When I used to have one like this working, I needed the sand to be at least 3 inches deep to keep from having to move sand back over the outlet. Anything less, and after a few days/week, it would barely have any sand on top of it, and just a creator. I find the little bubbling movement to be much nicer, instead of the big fountain movement. And in nature, you rarely see the fountain effect as in that pic. It is more like sand boiling than a fountain look. In other words, it barely moves over an in or two high. In that pic it appears to be moving 5 or 6 inches high. The smaller effect is less distacting than the larger fountain look.

_____________________________________________________________

There is always a bigger fish...

Actually I didn't realize it at first, but you could clearly see the black tubing in the upper right of the pic. Surprised that wasn't covered up better.

My Scapes

The Fountain is really cool.
But I also understand you guys. It Doesn't seems to fit in.

Face up make your stand and realize your living in the golden Years

Christina,

I couldn’t have said it better than Bensaf, actually I could have said it even remotely as good.

Keep in mind that we all make judgments all the time and in itself a judgment is nothing bad. When you look at a tank and think it is beautiful, well – that’s a judgment. On a broader scale, I believe we base most of our day to day decisions on judgment, what to wear, who we talk to, what we say, and so forth.

I would be greatly disappointed if I ask a question here and the answer would be “sure, if you like it.” I truly like the input that I get from our members and if I don’t agree with their judgment then I don’t follow their advice.

Last but not least, the above pictured tank entered a contest with strict standards and the owner of the tank knew very well that he will be scrutinized by the best of the best.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Guys,

This pic is from a 2004 AGA aquascaping contest) This is a closeup pic of some activity in the substrate. Anyone know what's going on here?



tetratech attached this image:


My Scapes

I think it is quite ingenious myself. I wish I was handy enough and creative enough to think of stuff liek that! I wish people didnt have to be so judgemental abotu things!



Christina

I have seen such a sand fountain in another tank from an AGA listing (a few years back and didn’t win) and one of the judges, I believe it was Amano, really trashed the sand spring.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

* sticks hand in air * I know I know !!!

I have seen a few people here do the same thing. A small pump/powerhead is rigged up and tubing run from the outlet to just under the substrate and poke out of substrate at desired location. The end of the tube is covered with very fine sand. When the pump is running it stirs up the sand causing a fountain effect. The trick is to have enough flow to move the sand the right amount. Not enough and nothing happens, too much and it blasts the sand away.

I must admit I don't like on the tanks I've seen in person. It's cool for a few minutes but then just becomes a distraction. I've seen it used in magnificant tanks (the tanks I've seen are also in the AGA contest - name of Okie, 1 in medium and 2 in large tank categories , my fert supplier also has a tank from his store in the contest- if you're interested). It was like somebody put a bubbling plastic sunken treasure chest in an Amano scape.

As a completely unrelated side note, being lucky enough to see AGA quality tanks in person I learned that photo's almost never do a tank justice (that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it ). Makes you wonder how even m,aore great Amanos tanks must be.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Interesting how he got it so that it was constantly throwing up sand. You'd think that if there was some sort of piping going on under there that was throwing up water it would throw all that sand away in a second or so. I dont know how he got it to continuously throw up that sand.


Also, is that a little bit of out of focus BGA I see in the very lower left corner of that pic, attached to that plants' roots???

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Back in the saddle!

Actually this tank won first place in the biotope divison for Sucuri River (Brazil)" One of the judges stated "However, even though I suspect the spurting sand is to simulate rising spring water, I find it distracting." ---Karen Randall







tetratech attached this image:


My Scapes

Please let us know when you find out! That is quite an interesting picture most definitely!!!



Christina

Hi,
Why not write them and ask?
Looks like there is a critter going nutz in the gravel OR
they have a filter return that exits up through the gravel.
Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

looks like theres some plumbing under the substrate and its hooked to a pump some where and is just moving the water out slowly threw just enough to move it around and not blast it all over


or two fish that love to dig going absolutly crazy

Last edited by monkeyboy at 24-Oct-2005 16:20

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