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Stem plants drive me crazy. My planted community tank (30 long with 120 watts of light on for 12 hours, DIY CO2, small pebble gravel, Flourish Trace, Iron, Potassium every week) looks good from time to time, but keeping it looking good is apparently beyond me. I have a big chunk of driftwood in the middle with java ferns and moss attached, and they grow prolifically, but right now most of the java fern is getting choked with algae (short, fuzzy and bright green) and the moss is growing very rapidly, enough to require a lot of pruning every other week. My Hygrophilia is leggy and getting the same algae, my Ateleranthera seems to have stopped growing, but otherwise looks okay, and my pennywort grows non-stop, unless it's choked itself with water-roots that have gotten tangled in a mass. I think that's it for the stem plants that are still living in that tank. The tank is in a built-in bookshelf, so it's no problem to do feedings and minor gravel vacs and water changes, but really getting my hands into the tank to do pruning and re-planting stems that the corys just dig up anyway is a big hassle.
I also have two sword plants which look great, and some tiny crypts that look really great, and in other tanks I have vals, criniums, and aponogetons which all look great and are super-easy to care for, so I'm wondering if it would be worth it for me to tear down the planted tank and re-plant with only rooted plants like the swords, crypts, and aponogetons. I'd obviously have to use a lot of substrate fertilizer, and a layer of laterite would probably be a good idea. I'd probably get rid of the huge piece of driftwood and use a much smaller piece or a few very small pieces. Would this be feasible? Would it work well and look okay? And would it be easy to care for?

Hoping that there must be a word for everything I mean...

Feasible? I'm sure it would be. I actually had a similar idea a while back. I replanted with all swords and crypts. it sounds like a good idea at first but there are some complications with it. These are all heavy rooters you're looking at here, which means not only do they need a nutritious substrate, they need A LOT of it. In a smaller tank like a 30 gallon, over time what'll happen is, the root systems for each plants will grow so large they'll start to intertwine. Eventually this will prohibit or at least slow down further growth to the point where plants start having trouble and then that algae will come back. See the pic below - this is the intertwined root system from ONE ozelot sword and several crypts. This took up nearly the entire base of my 46 gallon, the roots were crammed up against the sides of the glass - in effect, stunting the plants.



Other thing is, as bensaf has pointed out elsewhere, these plants all have large leaves, which tend to make a small tank look even smaller... it's usually a good idea to mix leaf size and leaf shape, using plants approriately sized for that tank.

And third, you have a lot of light on that tank while adding less CO2 than you probably should be adding for that amount - I'm not sure that algae won't come back no matter what.

This all isn't to discourage you, just a few things i can think of to be aware of [/font]

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Hmm... well, I knew I'd need about 3-4 inches of substrate, and I've seen my crypts spread their roots far and wide and get al tangled. I'm also familiar with root-binding and stunting in a regular terrestrial garden, but for some reason I thought it might be avoidable in this case.

I'm not totally discouraged, but I definitely see your point. As to the CO2, I tend to wind up with lots of nasty green water when I add another DIY bottle to try to increase the saturation. Would this also be the case if I were to save my pennies for a CO2 tank/regulator/diffuser system? Or is it more likely the fluctuations inherrent in using DIY CO2 that cause the green water? Or something else? I could also of course just use one 60 watt bulb over the tank, instead of two...

Hoping that there must be a word for everything I mean...

Would this also be the case if I were to save my pennies for a CO2 tank/regulator/diffuser system?

Probably would be - depends on some other factors. I can't pretend to know exactly what causes GW, from my experience and the experiences of others on this board it seems trace amounts of ammonia mixed in with high lighting are the biggest culprits. I'm working on getting rid of GW in my pressurized set-up, tetratech bought a UV sterilizer to get rid of his. In theory, the solution is to increase plant mass to the point where higher plants (the ones we like) use the resources we provide them as best they can, thus outcompeting single celled plant life for access to nutrients. Come to think of it, that's how to get rid of most kinds of algae. You're giving them a lot of light, but not enough of something else to allow them to use all that light... thus, in steps the algae. Switching down to only 60watts wouldnt be a bad idea.

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Back in the saddle!

To be honest your fert regime is a mess. You've no macros going in, hence the algae and straggly growth. Bad choice of plants for a smallish tank, Pennywort and Polysperma are too much work.

Scrap the DIY Co2, it's unstable and causes more problems. If you want a low maintenance set up use a good non Co2 method.

Don't use the full 4 wpg of light for the entire period. Keep half the light on for 10-12 hours with the others only on for a couple of hours in the middle. If you choose moderate low light plants just use the 2 wpg.

Forget the Flourish Trace, Iron and Potassium. What you need is regular Flourish, Excel,KNO3 and KH2PO4. If you can't get the KNO3 and KH2PO4 Flourish Nitrogen and Phosphorous will be fine but more expensive.

Using Excel will slow growth compared to using Co2.Dose the Excel as per instructions on bottle.

To keep the plants healthy, add about 1/8 of a teaspoon of KNO3 2 times a week, a smidge of KH2PO4 (about the size of half a grain of rice) 2 times a week. 5 mls of Flourish 2 times a week. 50% weekly water change. No need for substrate ferts.


Use lower maintenance plants. Swords get too big with the exception of Parviflorous Tropica.Tennellus, Sags and smaller Vals. Crypts are good. Plenty of Anubias, Ferns. Slower growing stems like Bacopa, Ludwigia, Wisteria is good for filling space without looking to big or cramped. Use rocks and wood to fill in space and gaps.

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Thanks Guys!

I know my ferts are a mess... I found it so confusing, and there is so much conflicting information out there. This tank is prety hevily stocked, so I wasnt' sure if adding Nitrogen would be too much; And I was wrong, I am using regular Flourish, not trace. I have some excel on hand for my smaller tanks, so it wouldn't be too much more expensive to upgrade to larger bottles of the stuff.

So, no more Swords, more crypts, and fewer weed-plants. Sounds reasonable. Any suggestions on a medium-sized anubias? I know some get very large, and I only have experience with the very small varieties.
I'll also probably get rid of the huge driftwood that takes up a third of the tank and use several smaller pieces instead (or just cut this one up into several smaller pieces).

Hoping that there must be a word for everything I mean...

So, no more Swords, more crypts, and fewer weed-plants. Sounds reasonable. Any suggestions on a medium-sized anubias? I know some get very large, and I only have experience with the very small varieties.

medium sized anubias? A. coffefolia is my favorite, haven't had one in a while but they're beautiful plants, dark green leaves that come in reddish when they first open up. They stay pretty low. A. barteri v. nana is alaways a nice one to use. A. congensis can stay manageable, depending on the light. In 2WPG submerged I think the leaves will stay smaller rather than larger, but that still may be large.

And there is a sword that does stay small, commonly referred to as Tropica Swords... I was never able to keep the things looking very good, they may need a richer substrate than most, I dunno, it never worked out for me.

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I actually use A. nana, coffefolia, and congensis in my 65 tank, and I'd consider those relatively smallish anubias (not including the petite varieties).
Perhaps as fore-midground plants they'd be nice here and there, but I was thinking more along the lines of one of the taller species with the arrow-shaped leaves in one of the corners that doesn't get tons of light. Or are they all too big?

What about A. Gracilis or A. Frazeri?

Last edited by illustrae at 22-Dec-2005 10:15

Hoping that there must be a word for everything I mean...

I used to have A. gigantae. It's called A. gigantae for a reason. It started off small enough but soon grew out the top of my 46 gallon, that's 20 inches high. Each new leaf went higher and higher. Soon with all the newer leaves all you could see under water were big thick stalks, not very pleasant looking. My betta used to take naps in the cups of those big arrow shaped leaves, the leaves right by the surface, that is.

A. barteri should stay somewhere in between, once it grows out enough over the course of a few months.

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