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I bought a little nutrafin system for tanks up to 20 gal, my question is do I really have to buy the packets they sell with activator and stabilizer? I figure it's just baking soda and yeast but was wondering if anyone had the exact amounts?

You can make your own. Here is a [link=good thread]http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/forums/Planted%20Aquaria/55803.html" style="COLOR: #EB4288[/link] that also contains further links with great info on CO2 mixes.

I use a standard
2 c sugar
1/4 tsp yeast
6 c warm water

Shaken not stirred :88) for mine.

^_^[hr width='40%']"So take the photographs, and still frames in your mind.
Hang it on a shelf in good health and good time...
It's something unpredictable, but in the end is right
[link=I hope]http://babelfish.qwertydigital.com/" style="COLOR: #EB4288[/link] you had the time of your life"

I posted this before in another thread:

To mix your yeast:

A lot of people that write about DIY CO2 using yeast have apparently never cooked with it or researched it thoroughly before. To get yeast production immediately you will need to activate your mix. Follow the directions given on the package. I use Fleischmann's Quick-Rise but anything you pick up at the grocery store will do. Some people have said that Quick Rise burns out faster, it hasn't for me so I think it's safe to use. You are making a yeast culture so your yeast should be reproducinmg enough to sustain your mix for a few weeks even with quick rise yeast. Activating your yeast gives it a nice head start and I find that I get more CO2 production in the long run when I do it.

First you need to get some warm water, use a thermometer to measure the temperature because too cold will not activate as quickly and too hot will kill your yeast. You want the water between about 100F-120F, and you'll need about 1/4 cup for activation. Instead of fiddling with the tap to get the temperature right, it is much easier to microwave it. Dissolve about a teaspoon of sugar in the warm water, drop in the desired amount of yeast (for my mixes I use anywhere from 1/2-2 tsp depending on how much CO2 I want.....1/2 tsp is a good starting point - don't use too much or your yeast mix will foam too much in the bottle and end up in your tank - the mix will also burn out very quickly). Remember that if you use more yeast you will need to replace your mixture more often because all of the yeast will consume the sugar very rapidly, essentially eating themselves to death. Stir the mixture really vigorously until all of the yeast is dissolved (no clumps) and you've got some air bubbles at the top of it. Let the yeast mixture sit for about 10 minutes to activate until it gets really foamy. You should see a thick 1" or so layer of foam on the top of the activated yeast, if not, your yeast is dead for some reason. Check that your water was the right temperature and the expiry date on the yeast.

Meanwhile, fill your 2L yeast bottle up about 1/3 of the way with HOT tap water. This makes it easy to dissolve your sugar and you will be using a lot of it. Now dissolve between 1-2 cups of sugar in the hot water. At this point you can add any additives, I've seen some people use molasses, protein powder, I have used skim milk powder, all kinds of things are added to the mix in the interest of improving it. Try whatever you want, just remember to read the guidelines below. More sugar will keep your yeast alive and feeding longer, extending the production of CO2. The often quoted advice that using too much sugar will form alcohol too quickly and kill your yeast is bunk. For this to happen you would need a ton of sugar in there, 2 cups or even a bit more isn't going to do it. Shake the bottle to dissolve your sugar, then fill the bottle to 2/3 with COLD tap water. Test the water temperature with your fingers, it should just be warm. Now dump your activated yeast mixture into the bottle, shake it up REALLY WELL. If anyone tells you not to shake your yeast mix, that's bunk too. You'll want to shake it a lot to disperse the yeast evenly through the mixture and incorporate a lot of dissolved O2 to the mix. The longer conditions in the bottle are aerobic and oxygenated, the longer CO2 production will last. Now fill your bottle up to about 3" or so from the top. If you overfill your bottle there is a chance it could overflow and make a mess in your tank. Connect everything together and watch for bubbles. You're generally looking at most 6-7 seconds between each bubble, production will be much faster when the culture is initially started.

To recap the basic starter recipe:
This is what I would suggest starting with to get a gauge on how much CO2 a DIY yeast system will make before you start messing with any modifications.

- 1/2-1 tsp baker's yeast
- 2 cups sugar (plus one tsp for activation)
- Enough water to fill your 2 L bottle

Leave the mix to do most of the work for you, but you'll want to give it a shake every few days or so to disperse your yeast more evenly through the mix so more of them have access to the nutrients you've provided them with. As I stated above, you will also need to purge your CO2 Diffuser Bell if you're using that method when you change your bottles. Depending on the mix you use, it should only need replacing every few weeks.

There is no reason to stop CO2 production at night when the lights go out. Your fish will be fine. Adding CO2 to your tank will alter your pH and consume your KH (buffer) so, until you have a bit more experience with it, it may be a good idea to test your water frequently to make sure nothing bottoms out and to make sure you are producing the right amount of CO2. In a high light tank with a lot of fast growing and CO2 loving plants, you're looking at as much as 20-30 ppm CO2, lower light with plants that don't need it so much will require less of your DIY system. More than about 30-40 ppm is not recommended firstly because the plants won't use it, secondly because it may harm your fish.

Some notes on modifying your yeast mix, tailored to your needs:

You'll want to use some experimentation here, using yeast to create CO2 is not by any means an exact science. Yeasts are unicellular fungi. The species used in baking, alcohol production and the one we're using here is known as Saccharomyces cerevisiae just in case you wanted to know, living creatures that respond fairly predictably to changes in their environment. There are many strains of this yeast available that are produced with different properties for different purposes. Some hobbyists recommend using a wine or beer-making yeast for a better mix, but the ordinary baking grocery store variety is just fine. You won't always be able to predict the exact output of CO2 in your system. This, in my opinion, is the DIY yeast CO2 method's biggest fault.

A few guidelines to help you tailor and care for your own yeast culture:

1. Yeast will produce more CO2 if kept warm, less if kept cold. This is a double edged sword. In a warm environment you will have better CO2 production, but your mix will be exhausted faster. If kept too hot you will kill your yeast.

2. Some people recommend adding baking soda to your mix to buffer it and prevent the acid produced in fermentation from killing the yeast. This is also bunk. Yeast thrives in low pH, increasing the pH of your solution with baking soda will only slow production. Any salts added to your mix are detrimental to the yeast culture. This includes baking soda.

3. Yeast does not like salt. Keep salts out of your mix unless you want to inhibit growth and production of CO2. The same goes for fats.

4. Yeast multiplies fastest (and creates more CO2) in well aerated and oxygenated conditions. If you take the cap off of your mix every few days to let some air at it before you shake it, you will prolong the life of your mix and get more CO2 out of it. I like to do this at night when the plants aren't in need of as much CO2 and it doesn't really matter so much if there is some fresh air being added instead. I have seen a few sites that say the goal of a yeast culture is to keep it anaerobic. More bunk. Yeast will survive anaerobic conditions but production of CO2 in this state is really diminished. You want some dissolved O2 in your mix to keep your yeastie-beasties happy.

5. You can "feed" your yeast some nutritious amino acids or another source of nitrogen like ammonia or NO3 in the mix to increase production. The simplest and cheapest source of these is skim milk powder from the grocery store, but you can also use protein or wheigh powder from a health food store. I have even used flour. Don't use too much, a spoonful will do (I tend to do all of this by eye).

5. Bacteria is the enemy. Bacteria in your culture will severely decrease the life of your mix. Keep everything very clean especially when you're mixing your ingredients and culturing media to keep the bacteria out. To do this I have even sterilized my bottles, but if you're feeling lazy a rinse in very hot water will do. This brings up another point for why you shouldn't be adding any baking soda. Yeast will survive acidic pH quite nicely, while most bacteria is completely intolerant to it. In the fight against bacteria, oxygen is also your friend. read the tips above for keeping your mix aerated.

6. More yeast will give you more initial production of CO2 but the shelf life of your mix will be reduced. If you use way too much yeast it could even foam up and overflow into your tank. Use some sense here.

7. Experiment with more sugar if you want, I don't recommend using less than what I have suggested above because doing so would only decrease the life of your culture and there is no proven benefit in doing so. More sugar may extend the life of your culture as long as you don't go completely crazy with it and use the whole bag.

Keep in mind that most DIY recipies are for 2 litre bottle setups, and not for the much smaller nutrafin bottles.
I've been experimenting with yeast mixtures in the nutrafin bottles, and am currently adding sugar to the first level as usual, then 1tsp. baking soda (the stabilizer) and 1/2 tsp. dry activated yeast (a large container rather than the tiny pouches will be much cheaper and last a very long time). Then fill to the top level with warm water, stir, cap, and hook up to the airline. Unfortunately, for consistency this mix lasts only about one week. I use two nutrafin bottles with a single ladder, and every week I change the mixture in one of them, and I get fairly consistent production.
You may want to try experimenting on your own, as there are dozens of DIY recipies out there. You can also forgo the baking soda altogether, though you will definitely want to use a check valve on your tubing so you avoid any eruptions of yeast mixture into the tank. You may also want to experimet with less sugar and another food such as soy health drink powder.
If you put "aquarium plant DIY CO2" into a search engine, you'll get tons of results with lots of opinions on what is the "best" way...

Hoping that there must be a word for everything I mean...

Show's how long it's been since I last made a DIY batch for 6 cups water and 2 cups sugar you want 1/2 tsp yeast as trystianity mentioned.

Made up a new batch for the 20 gallon @home this morning, and actually read the directions on the yeast bottle for once . To activate you want temps from 100F-110F and to let sit for 10 minutes. If you're not letting it sit they suggest temps closer to 130F.

Tryst great advice! Never heard the one about taking the cap off every now and then.

^_^[hr width='40%']"So take the photographs, and still frames in your mind.
Hang it on a shelf in good health and good time...
It's something unpredictable, but in the end is right
[link=I hope]http://babelfish.qwertydigital.com/" style="COLOR: #EB4288[/link] you had the time of your life"

for consistency this mix lasts only about one week.

Too much yeast for a container that size, try halving it. I'm not sure of the exact size of the Nutrafin container but I use about 1/8 tsp. in a 600 mL bottle and 1/2 tsp. in a 2000 mL bottle to give you an idea.

Personally, I would toss the bottle and DIY a 2L so you'll just use the bubble ladder. I like the bubble ladder but IMO the Hagen bottle is too small for most tanks. It's insanely easy to use your own bottle, don't hesitate to fiddle with DIY stuff.

though you will definitely want to use a check valve on your tubing so you avoid any eruptions of yeast mixture into the tank.

A check valve stops water from the tank from flowing through the CO2 lines and siphoning out on to the floor, the valve is open to flow in the other direction or else it would not admit CO2 into the tank. So to keep your mix in the bottle where it belongs you just have to be careful about filling it. On the other hand even if it overflows, it's not nearly as catastophic as your whole tank siphoning out through the lines.



Last edited by trystianity at 06-Sep-2005 16:28[/font]

I've been using the same CO2 unit as you for over about 3 years. But first, if you're tank is under 30 gal and you've already bought the nutrifin, it will be fine for your co2 needs. It did awesome in my 29 gal, but no noticeable effect now that it's in my 40. Only a couple ppm difference in co2. If you're 29g or under, no need to add a DIY bottle. If 30g or over definately add one. I'm adding one. If your unit is hanging on the bracket it came with, air-valve not required, as backflow will not occur, simply shorten the co2 air tubing if you have excess. If anything, worry about the mix ending up in the tank. A 'drip bottle' setup can be made for between the co2 tank. Any liquid that escapes the CO2 unit goes there instead of your tank. I haven't needed one. But seen diagrams with it. It can prevent one accident, which is all it takes to lose the fish.

"do I really have to buy the packets they sell with activator and stabilizer?" - No you don't.

"I figure it's just baking soda and yeast but was wondering if anyone had the exact amounts?"

I use this.
Sugar - fill to the first line in your co2 unit.
Quarter teaspoon yeast
8th teaspoon baking soda (to buffer the ph from swinging too rapidly is why it's added)
Fill halfway with tankwater, stir well for a few minutes, then fill to the top line.
This gives me CO2 for approx 3 weeks.

This method will change thanks to Tryst.
Activate the yeast as she suggests.
My batch of co2 just ran out, so I will be trying it. (she advised me prior in a different post)
Anything that = more co2 is worth it.
Speaking of which, another tip.

The bubbles will still be quite large when they go into and escape from the ladder. To improve this, suction cup a small wooden airstone under your ladder (or 2 if adding a DIY bottle) smaller bubbles going into and out of the ladder = more co2 being absorbed into the water. Bensaf or Plant Brain recommended this, I now have the wood airstone. So activating my mix, and will 'wood airstone' it under the ladder. Once I add the DIY bottle, it will be below the top of the tank, so WILL use the air-valve to prevent backflow, and also wood airstone under the ladder.
Hope this helps



I'd be very curious as if leaving baking soda out of the mix would make any notable difference in co2 production or not. Has anyone measured this ? Pls send info on this if you have it ?





Last edited by DaFishMan at 06-Sep-2005 23:50

The Amazon Nut...

I was able to chat with Tryst re the baking soda,
So will leave it out of the mix,

The Amazon Nut...