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this is what i have for my co2 setup. if you see the little thing attached to the right hand side (the clear piece), *that* is the bubble counter. the chamber fills with water and the co2 comes in one side and gets sucked into the reactor from the other tube (you can see it there). here's a closeup of the bubble counter:

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"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman

i don't think there *is* much else you can do except with a powerhead. the water has to have a good flow rate through the reactor or else the co2 won't get sucked out of the bubble counter part. if you want to get co2 into your water without a powerhead, you should get a diffuser. there are many different versions of diffusers out there, but a lot of them are pretty costly for pressurized systems.

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"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman

hoorah! is there a way to not have to use the powerhead? How else could on eget the water into the reactor?

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Back in the saddle!

yep, you got it you can see the 2 hose fittings on the closeup of the bubble counter (2nd pic). there are other ways of getting the co2 from your pressurized setup to the tank, but the reactor is one you can make yourself if you have the time. you can also do a diffuser, which is costlier, but supposedly more efficient.

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"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman

ok, so let me get this straight:

you have a tank of compressed CO2. that connects to a regulator system with the gauges etc. on there. there is a tube connecting that to the bubble counter. the bubble counter is filled with water. there is also a tube going from the bubble counter into the reactor. at the same time, there is a powerhead in the tank. the powerhead sucks up water and pushes it into the reactor. inside the reactor the water and the CO2 mix, they flow downward through the reactor and form one solution. then there is a tube at the base of the reactor, and from there the mix flows out of the reactor and back into the tank. is that right?

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Back in the saddle!

well, like i said, i have a powerhead connected to a hose which attaches to the top of the reactor. then another hose comes out of the bottom of the reactor and back into the tank. the water that comes out of the bottom of the reactor is the water/co2 mix and goes into the tank where it mixes with the tank water, eventually bringing the ph level down in the whole tank. i don't have a good pic of the entire setup, but i hope you can get a pretty good visual of what it looks like...

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"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman

This site has an efficient reactor. It's a little different from moondogs but has a neat diagram to help visualize. The water flows out the bottom through the filter pad. http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/diy_reactor.htm

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

sorry moondog, but i dont really know what i mean by connect to anything. from what i understood, the water comes in from one side on the reactor, and the CO2 comes in via another hose, the two mix, then go into the tank - my question is, how does the mixture get into the tank? there appears to be a connection on the bottom of the reactor, i just wanted to know if that connects to anything else - how does the mixture get into the tank.

ive been trying to visualize what a set-up looks like from reading about them, but im having a really hard time getting the whole scene pictured in my mind. i'll look through thekrib.com and other places online some more.

thanks moondog for your patience in answering my questions, i really appreciate it. im just not getting it right now

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Back in the saddle!

what do you mean "connect to anything"?? i use a powerhead to put water into the top of the reactor through a hose, and water comes out the bottom back into the tank through a hose.

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"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman

so that bottom tube of the reactor goes into the tank, right? does that connect to anything or is it just a regular tube?

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Back in the saddle!

water goes into the reactor, pulls the co2 out of the bubble counter, and then goes directly to the tank. the co2 bubbles get "crushed" by the bio balls in the reactor so that they dissolve more efficiently. you can make one of these yourself, but there are other methods out there that are available for purchase.

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"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman

where does it go after passing through the reactor? are these things inside or outside the tank?

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Back in the saddle!

well, i'm gonna bite the bullet and get a pressurized CO2 system. i thought about DIY for my 46 gallon, but looking on other threads, it seems that DIY CO2 on large tanks is more trouble than it's worth. so adios, paycheck!

anyway, looking around online for deals, i came across one that includes regulator, check valve, CO2 tubing and reactor for about $110. Not bad - figure more for the tank, but not too much more. they have another option listed that gives you a automatic ph controller for $80 more, and im wondering if it's worth it to shell out the extra money. any thoughts?

i mean, i know too much CO2 could cause an unhealthy drop in ph so it seems like something you'd need, but if so many people have CO2 systems without it, then it cant be too much of a necessity, right? any thoughts are appreciated


Last edited by nowherman6 at 05-Nov-2004 14:56

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Back in the saddle!

argh, ok then, does anyone have a reccomendation for a decent set-up? im sorry, im really new to the co2 thing, im just looking to get something pretty basic that will help my plants

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Back in the saddle!

Hi,
That picture of the regulator resembles the delivery
system for O2 in hospitals. In that case the little
ball within the chamber rises as the gas flows past
it and in that type of assembly the gas delivery is
measured in liters/minute or mililiters, not
bubbles/second.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

unless that glass chamber fills with water, then it isn't a bubble counter

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"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman

For a KH of 3, I'd leave it(that makes frequent water changes easy), also make sure the GH is 3 to 5 (or higher).

All you do is add enough CO2 to drop the pH to 6.4-6.6 with a target of 6.5.

You do that for the entire photoperoid(CO2 is not needed at night) and you will solve 90% of the potential issues.

pH stability does not matter with CO2, many assume incorrectly that it does. Aquatic ecosystems that have algae/plants etc, go through 2pH units or more changes every day. They seem to do quite well in nature.

If you raise pH using baking soda/salts that is harmful, to fish if you do this fast.

CO2 is another matter.

Plants want CO2, that's why that is added, not to stabilize the pH, pH is a guide to tell you how much relative to the KH you need to get a certain ppm of CO2.

I turn my CO2 off at night, so does Amano etc.
You don't gain anything by having it on 24/7 and it's not helping anything at night.

Regards,
Tom Barr

ok, go to http://www.glass-gardens.com

go to the "regulators" sections. that is a built in bubble-counter, right?

as for the ph controller, im not so much concerned with saving money by saving co2, i guess im more concerned with whether or not the benefits of one would outweigh the extra costs.

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Back in the saddle!

my vet uses the fancy computer controlled ph monitor and all that jazz, and he says his 20lb co2 bottle lasts him 12-14 months for a 250g tank. i don't know where his ph is set (forgot to ask) but i do know he keeps the tank slightly acidic for his discus and angels and the multitude of plants he keeps. personally, i don't think the cost is worth it, but maybe it is for such large-ish tanks

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"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman

Hi,
I would nudge your KH up to 5 if it were me. To do that
simply add some Arm &amp; Hammer UNSCENTED Baking Soda to the
tank. Try a teaspoonfull first, add more as necessary.
The Sodium Bicarbonate will raise the KH and nothing else.

As far as the pH controller is concerned, that is up to
you and your wallet. I have a "Pin Point" brand pH
monitor (runs 24/7/365 on a 9VDC battery). I run the
CO2 through a bubble counter, through a reactor, and
into the tank. I have the regulator set for slightly
more than 1 bubble/second. A tank lasts me for about
8 months and costs $9+some change (tax you know)for a
refill. The difference in pH between lights on and
lights off is about .02. Not enough to even think about.

As I said, I run CO2 24/7 at the rate stated above and
it lasts for 8 to just 9 months. With a controller,
a pH probe is connected to a small computer. You
set the desired pH value, and then connect the solenoid
(turns the gas on and off). The controller then turns
on the gas till it reaches your predetremined value,
and then activates the solenoid to turn off the gas.
As the gas escapes into the atmosphere, and the pH rises,
the controller again activates the solenoid and turns
on the gas to decrease the pH to your desired level.
While it sounds like the pH yoyo's and is bad for the
fish, we are actually talking about extremely small
shifts, and the fish don't even notice it.
The idea is that the gas supposed to last longer
being turned on and off, than it does with it on,
as mine is, all the time.

I'd like someone who has experimented with its use
to write and say how much longer a tank actually
lasts, and if it truely is worth all the extra $$.
At 9$/refill, I think it would take a few years
to recover the expense.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--