FishProfiles.com Message Forums

I recently replaced an emperor 400 filter on my 72 gal with a Rena Filstar XP3. I also have an established Eheim Pro II running as well. I was wondering what would be a good setup as far as media goes. I'm leaning towards some sort of biological media to replace the bio-wheels. Any suggestions on brands/types would be great.

What does that mean, Bob? "Till the cows come home." Where have the cows been?

I really don't see a need for biological media unless your running an overstocked or bare tank. Biowheels while they sound great in theory actually don't do much for most tanks because a normally stocked tank with substrate, decorations, and enough water movement or oxygen exchange will sustain more than enough bacteria without needing the surface area of a biowheel. Since all my tanks also have at least some plants I never include biological media. In my cannister I have coarse media, 2 layers of fine media(eheim's ehfisynth), and last 2 bags of seachem's purigen for chemical filtration.

The biological part of the filtration process is the most important part of the filtration process because this is what breaks Ammonia down to nitrates and then nitrates are removed through partial water changes. The more biological media you have the more room there is for beneficial bacteria growth and the more easily your filter can do this job, therefore I would have to say biological media is the most important.

On the subject of carbon, most aquarist today don't use carbon unless they are removing medication. Urine and other waste are kept diluted through regular partial water changes, carbon also becomes exhusted fairly quickly and is not needed in most circumstances, I haven't used it for years. I replaced my carbon with more biological media.

17 years experience with freshwater.

I also have the Xp3. I use the Rena bio-rings and the bio-stars. I like the rings better. Good filter, I like it.

Hi there,
I too believe the biological aspect of filtration
is the most important of all.
I do not use carbon whatsoever except to remove medications, but I use a hospital tank in most cases so try not to medicate my main tanks at all if I can help it.
I too have a Rena canister, xp-2.
It comes with a great product come Biochemzorb,
which is actually Diatomaceous earth. It works amazingly at polishing the water, but is quite pricey, about 12 dollars a pouch.
In my Rena I have Biochemzorb, Peat granules to soften and acidify my liquid stone water, foam and more foam, and a large portion of Eheim brand Ehfisubstrat, one of the best bio medias out there.
At least 1/3 to 1/2 of the filters volume is devoted entirely to bio media.

Come Play Yahtzee With Me!
http://games.atari.com
Http://www.myleague.com/yahtgames

It may be important but in most cases it doesn't need to be in your filter. More than enough bacteria can live in the tank unless you are running a bare tank, overstocked tank, or a tank with little surface agitation and therefore low oxygen levels. Most setups do not need supplemental biological filtration. I have never had a tank where I had to include biological media and most of the time I rinse all my filter media in chlorinated tapwater or just throw it out for new without worrying about it. I've never seen a mini cycle.

I don't like using carbon. It's not all that effective and tends to lead to more problems unless you change it out very frequently(about weekly). I do think all tanks using tapwater benefit from some chemical filtration. Which is why I use purigen. None of the downsides of carbon and more benefits. Plus in the end it's much cheaper since I've been recharging the same 5bags for nearly a year now. In tanks using RO or pure water buffered with powdered minerals chemical filtration would not have much effect.

Actually the stuff you use for mechanical filtration also get's good bacteria colonies on it. In my AquaClear I have two sponges instead of one, thats how I get my added bacteria growth in the filter. I don't have any rings or anything like that in there, although there not a bad idea. I always recomend cleaning filter meteial in old tank water, I mean why do we wan't to kill of any of the benificial bacteria. We want the most amount of that possible at all times to keep our tanks that much healthier.

Also if the tank is stocked right and you feed right you can probably get away with not putting the extra biological media in your filter, but most aquariums ive seen become overstocked. Lets face it some of us get addicted to fish, it's quite natural though. I think I would personally rather have the added media in my filter for extra bacteria growth for good insurance so to speak. Nothing wrong with taking the added steps to make sure our fish stay in there prime, of course by not overstocking is also a good step.

As far as chemicals in the water, I highly recomend Kordons Amquel plus and Novaqua plus, These are excellent products. They have been recomended to me by a lot of professionals in the field. Regardles of what some may think these products do there job without interupting the biological process. From what I have read Ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates are basically removed in the sence that they are converted to a non toxic form, that way the bacteria can still do there job and multiply while the fish remain safe. I have posted links below to see how these products actually work, for anybody that may be new to the Kordon products.

http://www.kordon.com/kordon/amquel+/index.htm

http://www.novalek.com/kordon/novaqua+/index.htm

17 years experience with freshwater.

I hate amquel. It doesn't do near as good of job as it says and has a higher chance of messing up the biofilter than most water conditioners. It's the last thing I use in my tanks. My first choice would be prime. I've used prime even while cycling plenty of tanks without issue, it's cut down on the number of shrimp I lose due to the crap in our tapwater, and I even noticed improvement in my saltwater tank when I added it. Despite the fact the salt tank does not use tapwater and tests zero for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and phosphorous the featherdusters and other sensitive critters seem happier and more numerous. Amquel has the opposite effect on everything. I lose more shrimp and all my salt critters would go into hiding at a half dose of amquel.

That's completely off topic though since water conditioners do not get rid of the same thing as chemical filtration. They can eliminate chlorine, chloramine, heavy metals, sometimes ammonia, and sometimes nitrites but they do not remove other chemical compounds. Chemical filtration removes all of the above and then some. There was a list around here of probably 50+ potentially harmful compounds removed by carbon but I just can't seem to find it. Some chemical filtration will also remove organics that would have eventually contributed to the nitrate level in the tank. In a tank using tapwater I would add chemical filtration before I'd add biological media although I wouldn't do it in the form of carbon since it has too many downsides.

Sham, I don't like prime. It's to hard to dose, and when I used it my fish got stressed probably had to much in the water. I might have had it way overdosed. Most pros I talk to love Amquel plus and Novaqua plus. Kordon makes excellent products, you may be one of the few to disagree but many love there products.

One thing to keep in mind, certain test kits will give a false positive when using Amquel plus and Novaqua plus. They are the test kits that read in shades of yellow or amber colors. They are the test kits with Nessler agents that give false positives. Useing Amquel plus you need test kitts useing the salicylate method, not one with nessler agents.

17 years experience with freshwater.

You can way overdose prime and not have an issue. The bottle claims up to 5times the regular dose before you might see problems. I've done double dose on purpose numerous times. Usually when I dose it I just estimate based on how full the cap is and I often end up dosing enough for the whole tank instead of how much water I'm changing. My fish and inverts only seem happier for it than before it was added. Whereas if I use amquel at even a half dose everything goes downhill in any of my tanks. Especially any tank with shrimp or other inverts.

Im sorry to hear about the problems you had Sham, some have had problems and some haven't.



17 years experience with freshwater.

I like Prime too. I would avoid Amquel, it seriously
messes up your test results. You could have 5.0ppm
of ammonia and your test would read 0,
or you could have no ammonia and the tests could read
5.0 ppm. In a properly cycled tank with adequate bio-media (only 20% of all bacteria in a tank lives outside biomedia in the filter), then you should never ever have to use an ammonia remover.

Prime is super easy to dose, 1 capful per 50 gallons, 1 thread in the cap for each 10 gallons, 2 drops per gallon.
You can safely dose up to 5x the regular dose in an emergency with no issues.
The guy at my LFS, his neice dropped a whole 500 ml
bottle of prime into his 50 gallon tank, and aside from the sulphur smell than lingered for a couple of days,
had absolutely no adverse reactions.

I am on well water, so I like that Prime removes Heavy metals, a must for a shrimp/invert keeper like myself.


Come Play Yahtzee With Me!
http://games.atari.com
Http://www.myleague.com/yahtgames

When I used prime back when I had my Oscar, he would almost instantly start going belly up when I added it to the tank. I don't know if it's our water here not agreeing, maybe the chemistry of our city water with it is not right. I cant remember what chemicals they use here to treat our drinking water but I do know they have funny names that I have never heard before. I know also that our city is currently in the works of putting in another type of treatment plan because of there being to much radium in the water.

17 years experience with freshwater.

I opologize to Agent_Orange as I see this has gotten a little off topic with canister bio-media. I have added another topic area for further debate on Amquel plus and Novaqua plus. Please use that topic area for further discusion on those products. Now back on topic here with bio media.

17 years experience with freshwater.

Thanks for the replies. I will prolly go with some biological and more mechanical media. I do have a thick gravel bed and fairly large piece of driftwood as well as a few live plants, so I will focus a little more towards mechanical.

What does that mean, Bob? "Till the cows come home." Where have the cows been?