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The outtake that releases water seems to me to be pretty high. Since I have it right in the center, I can't put plants in the middle of the tank because the water stream would constantly blow on it. Anyone else have this problem?

I have it slightly angled so its not blowing directly down. Is it supposed to be at a certain angle?

Here's some pics of my tank:
http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v347/djsly/?

All bubbles in the middle is caused by the outflow of water by my canister filter.

A canister filter shouldn't be making bubbles like that unless you just replaced the poly floss in it or just cleaned it or something.

Spraybar.....that will diffuse the outflow tremendously..and you can easily submerge it as well. I have tall plants in front of TWO spraybars on the back of my tank and they don't get knocked over. If the spraybar still seems strong, drill out the holes a little more until it isn't. I have two canisters, approximately 650gph in all, on my 75 gallon, both with submerged spraybars. The via aqua 75o spraybar went the length of the tank almost so I didn't have to worry about that pressure, but I had to drill out the holes bigger on the shorter rena filstar xp3 spraybar. The plants "ripple" slightly, but nothing gets bent over or pushed around.

So according to my pictures, my canister filter shouldn't be making all that bubbles/stream?

Are spraybars available at LPS? How much are they?

It says in the manual:

Exhaust Stem
Provides water surface agitation and partial aeration if positioned above water level. Exhaust stem can be submerged in any desired location to encourage water movement throughout the entire aquarium.


I thought that the exhaust stem had to be above the water. But since its creating so much bubbles, I will submerge it. But wouldn't this decrease aeration? Isn't aeration important?

I just realized that my filter uses a spraybar but it still creates too much agitation among my plants..

Drill the holes out a little bit, is what I would do. Match a drill bits up to it, and the first one that won't go into the holes, use it. (of course, remove it from tank first and rinse the plastic shavings off when done). You're only trying to drill the holes out one more size bigger...if your 1/8 drillbit fits in, but the 5/32 is a hair too big, use the 5/32, in other words. Make sure ya are only making the holes bigger and not going all the way through the spraybar, through the back side of it.

When I got my xp3 I noticed that the spraybar was very small and very powerful. This is what I did and it worked great. Bigger holes will decrease the pressure of the flow. You could even just start out by only making every other or every 3rd hole bigger until you get the desired effect.

Thanks for the help jake!

You're welcome, sly. I did it about 8 months ago so it's still fresh in my memory.

But since its creating so much bubbles, I will submerge it. But wouldn't this decrease aeration? Isn't aeration important?

I missed that question initally. . . If you have a lot of live plants and they are healthy, getting the ferts they need, growing quickly, etc, then aeration isn't that necessary. If you are not running co2, therefore not worried about outgassing it, you can still submerge the spraybar but point it however you want so that it disturbs the surface of the water if you want. As long as it breaks the surface tension of the water somewhat, it is allowing gases to be exchanged .As long as you have water on the top of the tank that is rolling over itself and breaking the surface tension, you are getting "aeration". In other words, when you run bubbles ( an airstone) in your tank, you are not "injecting" oxygen into your tank. The bubbles are rising up, as bubbles do, and breaking the surface tension of the water. Breaking the surface tension of the water is where the magic is at, and can be done without bubbles.

In a heavily planted, healthy tank, all of this can be done within the tank, without going to the outside atmosphere for everything, so to speak. The fish give off co2, plants give off oxygen, and if everything is right you don't need airstones or bunches of splashing water for the fish to get enough oxygen.

I am sure there are more scientific posts, threads, and information available, but I'm not a scientist, so that's my take on it.

[span class="edited"][Edited by jake 2004-07-24 18:34][/span]

The output of the canister is never placed in the center of the tank...

It's placed at one far end and the output is placed near the surface and pointed towards the other end to allow it to move surface water.

This type of placement provides excellent water circulation within the tank and good gas exchange.

--garyroland.

I wouldn't say "never", garyroland. I have two canister filters on a tank, with the intakes on each end ( the strainers an inch and a half from the substrate) and the spraybars an inch to 3 inches below the water line or more directly in the middle. I've found it to be excellent circulation. What you say is very good with just one canister filter though. The manufacturers sometime suggest putting the outflow and intake in diagonal corners as well, but obviously they don't like to look at their fish much, or visible water hoses in the front of their tank doesn't bother them.

Spraybars are not a requirement either...

If the proper canister, in this case a Fluval model, is positioned correctly, the flow will circulate in a return pattern from one end to the other and back again through the tank while allowing for decent surface agitation.

I see no need for two canisters in a tank unless one or both are undersize for the tank gallonage involved.

There's a limit as to how much circulation fish can stand. Push that limit and I can guarantee stressed fish.

And, as I've often stated before, I wouldn't suggest using canisters of any make or model. The design of pushing water through a dirty canister over and over again is not my idea of good filtration.

I have three large 404's just sitting gathering dust to prove my point. The last one to be removed was the one that the seal gave out between the top and bottom and dumped water all over the floor.

Don't turn your back on those things unless you have a very large mop.

--garyroland.



[span class="edited"][Edited by garyroland 2004-07-24 20:37][/span]

I have one canister and one power filter. The canister can do 111GPH while the powerfilter can do 150GPH (it has high and low settings). Do you suggest that I put the powerfilter on low?

I've only heard good things about canister but you are the first I've heard that doesn't like them. So far, the water is clear and debris free. So in my brief time with my setup, its working well.

[span class="edited"][Edited by sly 2004-07-24 21:20][/span]

Spraybars are not a requirement either...

No, they are not.. but his original question was about how to keep the outflow from knocking his plants over. In a heavily planted tank, there will be plants everywhere you could place an outflow that could be knocked over. The best way I have found to prevent that is to use a spraybar with bored out holes, so the flow is not particularly strong in any one area, yet provides a good flow overall. There are other methods, some of which I have tried, such as reflecting the flow off the tank wall, etc, but none of which satisfied me.

Also, using two underpowered canisters in a tank is much better than one strong canister filter, for circulation reasons, among other reasons. Like I'd mentioned before, get a decent canister filter and your opinion would probably change.

I didn't drill the holes but I have the spray bar pointed towards the front side.

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v347/djsly/

Those pics are old, the spray bar is now submerged and creates no bubbles. Also, I have a powerhead on the back right corner pointed towards the opposite side. Are there any flaws in this design?

[span class="edited"][Edited by sly 2004-07-25 21:49][/span]