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Geez, what are you keeping, marc, Asian Arrows?
I know what you're getting at, and I do, in fact, own (well, partially-me and a friend split the cost), a UV sterilizer in a pond with butterfly koi and the like set up at a pal's house, which aren't (the koi, I mean) quite 500 bucks, but not cheap stuff, either. With this firsthand experience in mind, I'll tell you that the UV sterilizer isn't really worth it IMO---with the age span of a koi, I can guarentee that that sterilizer will eventually grow to cost more than the fish itself, and yet prior to the purchase of the sterilizer, we've not had a single death before. The again, if you really, REALLY want to safeguard your pets, there's nothing wrong with a sterilizer.

Also, they aren't overrated--as far as disease prevention goes, I've only ever heard good things about UV sterilizers. Furthermore, they do indeed kill nitrifying bacteria, but, as stated, there is no need for concern provided you already have a good colony of the stuff started.

I would like to grow the hobby of fish keeping. UV sterilizers are something expensive that I think I do not want my lfs to have. I want them to have bullet proof fish with good immunity that a beginner can keep alive in the local water. Whether or not expert fish keepers make use of the technology is of no concern to me.

max

The Rainman has gone out on a limb claiming you never have to worry about "illness" in tanks with a UV sterilizer.

Not true Gary, if you read my previous posts, you will see that I have stated,

It only kills the smallest living organisms. Usually single celled critters, and very few celled critters. The larger parasites, it does not work as well on. The reason is, they have less exposure to the light, and thus very little, if any damage is done to them.

My point was to say that the UV works the same way for either setup. It helps to stop the spread in either setup, the same way.

Its like everything though isn't it things have there good points and also there bad points and people have there own opinions and experiences I guess in the long run you have to listen to everyone's opinions and experiences and then make your own mind up then you get your own opinions. I have to say I think there are a good thing but I would not argue with some one whose opinion is different because there experience with them may have been different from mine and I may experience that one day.

EXACTLY!
I just wish more people understood this about all the different aspects of fish keeping.

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There is always a bigger fish...

This is true Gary it does Minimize illness but it does not Prevent illness. I still get the odd fish die here and there but if it had something that was catching it sure does Minimize the spread of the illness. As for cost well mine sure did not cost more than my fish were worth altogether. Mine cost around £68 British pounds were as all my fish are worth around £200 at least altogether so really to be honest for me it was worth while paying out but like you say if you don't have any fish that are worth as much it most likely would be to much expense. You have to way up for yourself whether it would be worth while you paying out for me it was because if something did happen to break out in my tank and I lost all the fish well that would have been worse for me than having paid for the UV. Its like everything though isn't it things have there good points and also there bad points and people have there own opinions and experiences I guess in the long run you have to listen to everyone's opinions and experiences and then make your own mind up then you get your own opinions. I have to say I think there are a good thing but I would not argue with some one whose opinion is different because there experience with them may have been different from mine and I may experience that one day.

http://www.greenspersonalprinting.com/

"Sin, the thing is, with the UV, you never have to worry about any of the tanks getting illness in them, wether it be one large tank, or 6 inline tanks."...

The Rainman has gone out on a limb claiming you never have to worry about "illness" in tanks with a UV sterilizer.

Not true.

Minimize illness, yes. Preventing illness, no.

--garyroland.

I started using mine when I had an algae bloom. I tryed everything, but I was not about to use chemicals. Since then my fish have all been happy.

Yes, I know that, did you know there is a PM button. lol

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There is always a bigger fish...

You know there is an edit button acid .

Sin, the thing is, with the UV, you never have to worry about any of the tanks getting illness in them, wether it be one large tank, or 6 inline tanks. With a UV on a system of 6 different tanks, you should never get an illnes in any of them, so there would be no worries of stopping the spread from one tank to another, if you had no worries of any illness even starting. The same would be for a large tank. That was my point to you, was when using a UV continuously, it does not matter if it is set up on a 500 gal tank, or 5 ten gal tanks inline. The protection is the same.

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There is always a bigger fish...

CUP, I can't say yet what they are, but they are SW fish. I am going to be helping in a study of these paticular fish.

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There is always a bigger fish...

no acid i just mean multiple tanks. say you got a fleet of tanks all running on one sump or just inline of each other for whatever reason. you can prevent the spread of whatever from transfering to another tank with a UV. could be 6 community tanks or species tanks whatever. you get the beginning of a problem in one tank its not gona move to the next.

this isnt true in a 500g tank. even with a UV setup the other fish are gona be exsposed to whatever it is. its not possible to filter water so rapidly that another fish doesnt touch the same water as a sick fish in the same tank.

I have them on all three of my tanks, but some people say they are bad because then the fish are weak. What do you guys think?

Just a quick note, UV Sterilizers render most medications innefective, so be careful about doing this.

Yes guppy, that is a good point that everyone should know.

The thing is, when treating a tank, I only treat with medications as last resorts, or in a QT. I never treat entire tanks of fish with meds. To costly and too unnessicary in most all cases. The ill fish is always moved to a QT and medicated/treated there, then the original tank is treated by using the UV sterilizer on it. As well as lights out, decrease stress factors ect...



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There is always a bigger fish...

thinking about buying a UV? sit down and think to yourself. Do you want a pretty blue bulb in the back of your tank? or a larger tank next to it?

First off, you do not see the "pretty blue bulb", as they are completely inclosed. If you have one that is not, you are endangering not only the fish that are exposed to it, but yourself as well. UV lights are very dangerous, and thus the reason they are completely covered up in a case.

thre is really only one application i can see getting the full use out of a UV and thats a multitank system. talking 5 tanks or more all inline to a sump or some other form of filtration for all 5 tanks. a UV would stop the spread of one tank to another keeping wide spread killers contained.

This statement does not make sense sin. As a system with 5 tanks, can be compared to a system of one tank with the same amount of water as the five tanks. So, are you saying that you would use one just because you have 5 tanks? Or you would use one on a really large tank, that was the same water capicity and fish load, as those five tanks. In other words, you are worried about spreading a disease from one tank to another, but not worried about spreading a disease from one fish to another in the same tank.

As for price, it is your preference.

As for my use, I have already stated, I use mine for algae control more than anything. One on my plant tank, the other on my SW tank. I only use them on other fish tanks if I have an outbreak of disease. I try to keep my tanks as disease free as they can, buy feeding them nutritional foods, cleaning the tanks on a regular basis, keeping their stress levels as low as possible, ect ect.

Hey cup, it all depends on the price of your fish, as I have a bunch valued over $500 each. As well, one of my tanks which is already set up with a UV sterilizer, will be housing a couple of new fish in the next few months, of which their retail value (if you can even find them) is well over $1,000 each. I think a couple hundred dollars is not to much to spend, to help ensure I keep a few thousand dollars worth of fish, free of disease.

As for disease within my 100+ tanks.... I had my first case of disease in over 6 years. It was ich, and good thing I placed the fish in a QT. The pair was treated, and are presently spawning for me now.

The claim is that particular wavelength will not affect nitrifying bacteria.

Hmmm, actually I heard just the opposite, that they could kill nitrifying bacteria. But, there is no worry, as long as you have a good quality home for your beneficial bacteria, like bio-wheels and/or wet drys, and they are colonized well already.

The biggest use around here, other than SW tanks, is for goldfish ponds. As they not only keep the pathogens down, but they keep the water clear and free of green water. And of course, you replace your bulb every spring, and it is not needed during the winter months.



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There is always a bigger fish...

When I have a tank with fish that have gotten ill, I take the UV and place it on that tank, while treating it.

Just a quick note, UV Sterilizers render most medications innefective, so be careful about doing this. For more on UV'S, read here

personally i think they are way over rated and push to hard like gary says. they are WAY to expensive for what they actually do. thre is really only one application i can see getting the full use out of a UV and thats a multitank system. talking 5 tanks or more all inline to a sump or some other form of filtration for all 5 tanks. a UV would stop the spread of one tank to another keeping wide spread killers contained.

other then this its nothing more then 200 hundread reasons how fish stores make a buck. for the price you pay for a small UV you could get a fairly large tank and build yourself a stand for it.

thinking about buying a UV? sit down and think to yourself. Do you want a pretty blue bulb in the back of your tank? or a larger tank next to it?

I have to go with gary on this one. I think UV sterilizers are a bit more trouble then they're worth. Doing everything right should keep your tanks free of disease without having to replace a bulb every so often and spending more money than the fish themsleves are worth on the unit.

The Rainman may have good reason to incorporate sterilizers on some of his tanks under certain conditions to combat algae but I'm certain he's very careful to maintain his tanks to prevent disease without the use of sterilizers...

I've always considered sterilizers as a last resort for would-be hobbyists who haven't a clue about properly maintaining and bacterially balancing a tank.

Look at it this way: Micro-organisms are irradiated as they pass by the UV wavelength that peaks at 254 nanometers.

The claim is that particular wavelength will not affect nitrifying bacteria. That's their claim, not mine.

Sad to report that with age, probably right from the beginning of use, the UV bulb effectiveness diminishes, similar to an old man with bad knees trying to climb a long flight of winding stairs.

What then?? Well, of course, you have to increase the dwell time by lowering the flow rate of water passing by the UV tube.

By the time a UV bulb is six months old, it's just about lost all its moxie and your flow rate, adjusted for an old aging bulb, is just about stopped.

Opinion?? Learn how to balance a tank bacterially and leave the UV to the commercial guys who make big bucks selling this stuff.

--garyroland. (No ich, no disease, no UV).











Last edited by garyroland at 01-Jan-2005 13:02

Very untrue, UV sterilizers will not cause your fish to become ill. There is no factual scientific evidence that stopping the use of these will cause your fish illnesses.

There are many reasons to use a UV light. One is for the mentioned parasites, and free floating bacteria. Another reason is for free floating algae. Using a UV will also keep your algae growth down. Depending on how large your UV is, and how well it works, it does not kill off everything in your tank. It only kills the smallest living organisms. Usually single celled critters, and very few celled critters. The larger parasites, it does not work as well on. The reason is, they have less exposure to the light, and thus very little, if any damage is done to them.

Most lights are rated for over 1 year. And, it is only theorized that it can maybe be harmful to your fishes immune system to stop the use of these abrumptly. The reason behind this theory, is that if there are not infectious critters in the tank, the fish stops producing a strong immune system to fight them off. So, if they later become active by stopping the use of the UV, the fish will become ill and not be able to fight off any infection. For many infections and diseases, this is not true at all. As fish, like all living creatures, develope anti-bodies to counter act many infections, regularly, wether the pathogen is present or not. But, for some things, the animal may only develope these anti-bodies if the pathogen is present always.

Now, what you have to think about, is, are these other pathogens present in your tank always? If the hosts are always creating anti-bodies to fight them off, I would think that they would eventually die off completely in your tank any way. So, if they die off, and the fish stop producing anti-bodies for them, what is the difference in this and the use of the UV to rid the tank of them in the first place?

I myself, and many people I know, use UV sterilizers on our plant tanks. This keeps the algae growth down. When I have a tank with fish that have gotten ill, I take the UV and place it on that tank, while treating it. It helps drastically to prevent the spread of the disease, as well as to help rid the tank quicker of the pathogen.

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There is always a bigger fish...

Well I have been using one for around 2 months now and so far I have had no problems what so ever. I can tell you my water has been alot clearer with less algae and I have had less diseases with less deaths. The fish all seem happy and healthy. The best thing though is since using it I have not had one single case of whitespot which I used to get plagued with before. Yes I think I would recommend them I am very happy with mine and most importantly than that the fish are happy so yes in my experience they are very good things to have.

http://www.greenspersonalprinting.com/