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OK, first of all, rehouse the Red-Eyes and the Serpaes. They're pretty feisty and likely to cause problems with numerous other more peaceful fishes.

If you keep the Black Neons, you could go with:

12 Cardinals
8 Black Neons

as a starter for your Tetra schools. Then, for contrast, if these other people don't want Lemons (though you I can't imagine as they'd make a wonderful colour contrast with the above fishes) then you could always try Head And Tail Light Tetras.

Next, bottom feeders. If your Tetra shoals end up as:

12 Cardinals
8 Black Neons
8 Head And Tail Lights

then you've room for 8 Otocinclus and 12 Pandas or habrosus. That lot should frolic together quite nicely!

If you can get some existing bogwood pieces with Java Ferns and Java Moss put in there as well, that should make for a nice setup. Then you can start thinking about other plants. In a 55 you could put Vallisneria in and create a nice 'wall' of green at the back. I'd avoid the likes of Cabomba because in my experience plants of this kind tend to be pretty fussy.


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

I am helping my brother with his 55g long. Right now it is a mish mash of different tetras, cories, a single harlequin rasbora, you name it he has one of it in his tank. We have decided to limit the schools to three schools of tetras, some cories and maybe some otos. We will be adding plants before we do this, poor fish I know but one thing at a time and money is tight all around.
My question is what size schools are acceptable? I have not kept tetras yet myself but I know they like to school and 6 is generally recommended. Here's what I was thinking, let me know what problems you may see with it.
Fish

12 cardinal tetras
6 black skirts
6 black neons
6 small cories (striped? panda, pepper?)
otos ?

Plants
We'll be starting with pretty basic plants, that's pretty much all that's available here, swords, crypts, anubias, java fern and moss, mostly what's in my tanks, they are the plants I know. I also know my brother and the plants have to be fairly easy to care for or they won't make it. There won't be CO2 injection or high light. I'll try and get some pics this weekend so everyone can see what I'm up against!

The fish he currently has will be hopefully finding new homes, I will try and talk him into letting me take the single harlie and adding it to my 10g, the others we will decide on, they may or may not survive the planting process, I usually just dive in and go to town but my fish are used to my presence in their tanks, his fish don't get the same attention mine do.

Last edited by luvmykrib at 20-Jan-2006 11:18

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Your stocking list sounds good. You could do any type of cory and have 10-12 in a 55g. I wouldn't do pandas if he wants a low maintenance tank though, because they like their gravel really clean.

I like the idea of the 12 cardinals. I think it would be much better visually to have 2 big schools. I am adding a third school of tetras to my 55g only because I can't find any more Rummies and I don't want anymore head and tailights. The tank will look really crazy, but atleast I'll have more action at the top.

For stocking I would go with:
10 cardinals
10 lemon tetras
10 cories (all one kind...any kind though)
4 ottos for algae
or
12 cardinals
12 black neons
10 cories
4 ottos
or
12 cardinals
12 rummynose tetras (I love these...not sure if too much red though in this option)
10 cories
4 ottos

or if you want 3 schools:
10 cardinals
10 lemons
10 black skirt
8-10 cories
4 ottos

If you went with the list you suggested, I think the black skirts would stand out because the body shapes of the cardinals and black neons are the same. To me they would stick out and not look good.

Your plant list sounds good for a basic planted tank. All are low light and if he wants low maintenance...thats what those plants are. I suggest getting lots of crypts. That is my fav type of plant and he could get the different types that still grow in low light and have a great looking tank.
There are probably plant websites that ship to Canada. I order all my plants online. Check around with other Canada members so you can venture out from the low light plants..when you are ready.

*Kristin*

Thanks for the reply, I am going to have a hard time convincing them to limit themselves to even three types of tetras. Last night I planted the tank, it is really low-light for a 55g, so I stuck with the low light plants, some driftwood and a really nice natural pagoda stone cave I assembled in the tank. It looks great. Now I have a better idea of what is in the tank, they have had some losses so here's what's left.

2 red-eye tetras(big)
3 black skirts
2 black neons
1 blood-fin tetra
1 serpae tetras
1 black-spotted cory

Now my B&SIL wants rummy-noses, the fish still in the tank, cories and cardinals, I can't convince them to have even just three schools of fish, she wants lots of colour and activity. They do a lot of impulse shopping, when there's a sale they'll buy one or two of whatever catches their eyes. The recent losses were due to the water being very hard as well as the fish being lonely so we added blackwater extract to it to soften it up. Tetras really prefer soft acidic peat filtered water and the BW extract is an easy way to achieve that. Any ideas on which fish to go with and how to convince them what's best would be appreciated. I'm pushing a large rock up a hill here but I'll keep working on it. Tenacity is my middle name, believe me!

Last edited by luvmykrib at 22-Jan-2006 16:22

Last edited by luvmykrib at 22-Jan-2006 16:23

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Here's what I think might go in together, I checked the profiles and they are all compatible and the ratio would be 1.5"/Gallon
10-20 Cardinals
5 Red-Eyed Tetras
6 Rummy Nose Tetras
5 Serpaes
8 Otos
6 Cories

This way she gets the fish she wants and the colour and activity, we don't have to find homes for the biggest tetras and only the black skirts, black neons and the bloodfin tetra need a new home.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

I think that is way too many fish for a 55g. The tetras will overcrowd the middle and top of the tank. You should really only have 3 schools at most. Try to convince them of that. There will be so much activity in the tank that you won't be able to focus on one group. Lots of chaos.

I would add more cories...if you take out some tetras. You could have like 10-12 cories. Get them to take out a couple schools of tetras and add a Bolivian Ram. They are pretty easy to care for and not as sensitive as Germans. They are also very colorful and interesting.

If they want to stock this tank right and care about the fish they are keeping...they will limit the schools and not crowd so many fish in the tank. Also, they should stop impulse buying and realize that tetras need groups and a 55g can't hold 6 schools of tetras.

If they really want help they will listen to you and the people on this site where you are getting the advice. Obviously they need help because you are here asking about stocking.

All the tetras you listed are red. That is not colorful...that is red. Instead of Serpaes...get Lemons. A good stocking list is:

14 Cardinals (not 20)
8 Lemons
10 Rummies
12 Cories
1 Bolivian Ram

That is pushing it with the larger schools of tetras. Cardinals may be small...but that doesn't mean you can have 20 of them and 3 other schools of tetras.
Serpaes are a little more nippy and aggressive than the other tetras. I don't know how they act towards other schools of tetras but I would drop them unless pairing them with Buenos Aires or another nippy tetra that can stand up for themselves.

*Kristin*

It's funny isn't it how a book can be so misleading, I based my stocking list on this books advice "Tropical Fish: A Complete Pet Owner's Manual" from Barron's. Here's the list they recommend for a 55 gal.
3-10 days after set-up
4 flying foxes
1 bushy-nosed catfish
10 days after foxes
20 neon or cardinal tetras
6 bleeding heart tetras
5 congo tetras
1 red-tailed black shark
7 green tiger barbs
6 corydoras
After 4 more weeks
2 kribs
After 6 more weeks
3 angelfish

Now that's a lot of fish! I tried to choose fish that were already present for a couple of reasons
a)cost of buying batches would be less
b)less fish to find new homes for
c)sized similar to the recommended stocking list
I also followed the amounts given. That is always up for negotiation as 20 cardinals will be expensive to purchase all at once. Aside from the over-the-top stocking recommendations the book was a big help when I set-up my 25g tank, and I still use it for a reference, I have quite a few of Barron's books on fish and dogs. Just thought I would let you know where it came from, also I would be adding any fish we got gradually so as to not start a mini-cycle.

Last edited by luvmykrib at 24-Jan-2006 13:51

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

I wouldn't trust that book for the 55g stocking. For one...tiger barbs are nippy and shouldn't be with an angel.
Another thing is that while a RTBS can get pretty big, you could have one in a 55g. But with cories, an BN, and Kribs (which I think are mid-bottom fish) you could have problems. I think RTBS can get pretty aggressive when the get older and may act aggressively towards other bottom dwelling fish.
Also, I don't see why they say to add the flying foxes and BN first. In a new set-up you shouldn't have much algae...especially only 3-10 days after setting up.

The books advice may work for you, but I dont agree with some of that stocking. You don't have to listen to my advice, but I am just trying to help your brother and sister-in-law to make their tank look nice and stock it appropriately as I am sure you are trying to do also. Anyone can put 6 schools of fish in their 55g because they like schooling fish...but that doesn't mean it will look nice, or that the fish will live...because an overstocked tank will soon have problems and may mean the deaths of lots of fish you paid good money for.

Whatever they put in the tank, be sure that they follow your advice and stock it slow.

*Kristin*

Hi, I agree that the stocking suggestion isn't great but the rest of the book is right on with what I've learned.
I use it as a guide to what fish may go together. I take everything with a grain of salt as well. Green tigers may not be as bad as regular tigers but they are still a tiger barb and we all know what they are like! I also wouldn't put the angels with small tetras even if the tetras get a chance to grow first. They may look pretty together but instinct will kick in as soon as the angels get big enough.
I think once we start adding fish I may be able to convince them not to have all the schools listed. A large school of cardinals (15) will be an active and beautiful thing, then we can look at other fish that will look good. I may be able to get away from the serpaes, maybe I'll give the one they have a home in my tank, I have some room left for a change. The red-eyed tetras are gorgeous and a school of 5 will set the cardinals off really nice, then the rummies that we like and that may be fine, then we should be able to get the cories and otos in. They don't want to try cichlids as they had a really aggressive one, (lemon I think) they bought it for it's colour and weren't told anything about them, they returned that one. They also have had lemon tetras and want to try something new. I don't think they like to keep the same fish for a long time, so as the fish start to die from old age or whatever they start to replace them with something new.
The trick will be finding a home for the black neons and the black skirts and the single blood fin. Returning them will be hard to sell, they don't like to give away fish, who does?
It will be at least a week before we have to decide on anything.

I would like to add this tank isn't a new tank, it is two years old. This is the first time it has had live plants (other than algae) in it and will probably be the first time stocking has actually been thought about before purchasing.

Last edited by luvmykrib at 24-Jan-2006 23:21

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

It's funny that the red-eyes and serpaes are considered aggressive, they haven't been so far that I know of. SIL really wants rummies and B really wants cardinals, so those two for sure. Personally I like the black skirts for contrast or the black neons, and the red-eyes for size and the silver colour they have as well, these two may be female, the eyes aren't actually red but the rest of the body is exactly the same. As there is only one serpae it might be able to live out the rest of it's life in there, I don't know how long they've had it. We could see if the lfs will take the serpae, the blood-fin and whichever black we're not keeping. They are finding the idea of giving fish away really hard to swallow, I know I didn't care for it too much when I gave up my beloved sharks and feisty little fox, but I am much happier with the tank now and I hope when it's all done they will be as well.
I like the idea of adding more vals, I hope they take well in the tank, we already added java fern, both the reg and 'windelov', java moss, a crispy crinkly crypt that I can't recall the name but might grow fairly tall, some swords and some vals. I think I'll be mostly adding some more crypts and vals, maybe some tenellus in the fore ground as well. I'll remember to get pictures next time and post them with photobucket to get some more ideas for the plants. The tank will be low-light for at least 6 months I would say, it really needs a new filter first, the Tetra whisper it has is not good at all, we will be looking at the Rena XP-2 I think

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

As far as Serpaes and Red Eyes go for nipping. They are probably not a problem because they are keeping each other in check. They are both agressive (nippy) so they can hold there own against each other. Add a school of small peaceful tetras such as Glowlights or Cardinals and there "peacefulness" will turn into hate for the newcomers.

I second the idea of rehousing the Red Eyes and Serpeas, as IME they can be hellishly nippy/agressive to other tetras and other fish.

I personally would keep the red eyes myself.
I have 7 and they are not at all in the slightest
what I would consider nippy.
The only really nippy tetras I have ever had were
those awful penquin fish.
I have red eyes and buenos aires and neither are nippy.

I would go with this:
7 Red Eyes
10 Cardinals
10 Rummies
7 Black Skirts
6 Corys

That would be great, silver and red, red and white,
blue and red, and black.
I love tetra tanks. I know lots of people like to keep
just 2-3 schools of tetra and say it looks messy otherwise.
I say to them, cmon over, you havent seen my tank yet, and I have 6 diff types of tetra. It doesnt look messy at all to me.



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