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We have a 10 gallon freshwater tank and have just lost our angelfish. Two other fish are in the tank: a platy and a cichlid. They all got along just fine. The angelfish stopped eating and hid over several days, then died. No signs of disease I could see.

Nitrates are fine, ammonia is fine, water temperature is about 80F. When I tested pH, it was 7.8. I read that angelfish prefer a more acidic environment, around 6.5 to 6.8, and wonder if this may have been the problem.

I'd like to get another fish: what pH would be a good balance?

Thanks,

Hi there,
the reason the angelfish died is likely due
to complications from stunting.
Angelfish grow much, much too large for a 10 gallon
tank, and need a tank a minimum of 24 inches long
by 18 inches tall, so 25g tall minimum, as they grow
to about 8 inches from snout to base of tail, and about
14 inches tall.

Angelfish do prefer softer water, but I have had no
problems at all keeping domestic p. scalare angels
in ph of 7.8 with a gh of over 280.
I doubt the ph was a problem.

How long did you have the angel?


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yeah thats what i was thinking,i have a 10 gal,but i only use it for a qt tank,and even that is too small,im after a bigger one.....if u want another angel,i think a tank upgrade is the order of the day.....but sorry on your loss

Thanks for the input. We had the angel about 3 months. Not sure about its dimensions, although it was still fairly small when we purchased it and about 3-4 inches when it died--but I can see how the tank size might be an issue. There's no other obvious reason. Perhaps it's time for an upgrade to a larger tank. I enjoyed the way that fish darted around . . .

JMH

Saying nitrates are fine is of no help. Some people think 60ppm nitrate is fine. Some people even think 1ppm ammonia is fine. Exact numbers are always desireable. If you scroll down the page of cichlid threads you'll also find a very recent discussion on angels and other fish generally considered softwater living in high ph hardwater. Stunting is much more likely to be the cause or possibly an illness but if you had it 3months and haven't added any other fish that's a bit less likely. If you really want to grow an angel to full size and see it swim around normally I'd get a much bigger tank. I bought a teeny tiny angel that was too small to hardly see it's colors properly and within a year it was starting to look a bit ridiculous in my 29g. It still didn't seem to be quite done growing so I was going to move it to my 55g when I found it dead. I think he got scared of something and tried to fit in a cave half his height. No idea why he didn't go for the planted areas instead. I'd suggest looking at a 30g or larger for angels.

Sham, your points about nitrates and ammonia are fair ones. For ammonia my testing showed 0 ppm. I confess to making a typo on the nitrate/nitrite parameter. I only measure nitrites, not nitrate, and these are 0 ppm.

Your nitrate concentration of 60 ppm gets me thinking: should I track this?

Our angel fish didn't seem to be growing much over 3-4 months. We didn't add any new fish during that period.

The consensus seems to be: angel fish need a bigger tank than 20gallons, so I'm weighing how to proceed. I like the angels.

Thanks,

I bought a teeny tiny angel that was too small to hardly see it's colors properly and within a year it was starting to look a bit ridiculous in my 29g. It still didn't seem to be quite done growing so I was going to move it to my 55g when I found it dead.

@ sham
My first angel Zoe was quite large, but not even close to being full grown when she died and sometimes I even wondered if the 55 gal she was in was big enough.
That being said, I have 2 in my 55 now and they have doubled in size in the 2 months I've had them. Id go for a 55 or larger if you want to keep angels. They are quite entertaining creatures, aren't they?

---

I used to be Snow White, but I drifted.
~ Mae West

Well jmharty I am raiseing angel fish and ph is what it want's to be. The ammonia and nitrite's as well as the nitrates I have to watch. But with Frank's help in here I am doing well. I started off with just one pair and egg's I now have two pair and egg's lol as of last night we now have three pair and do for egg's. But a ten gal not good for angel's they grow big and fast. I have 6 in my 55 gal and we have are going out to bye a nother tank this week end so I can be a good angel fish owner and not pack them in there to gether lol we also have a 40 gal with one of the pair in it and a divider in it on the the other half I have one of my baby angel's from our very first pair. then I have a 30 gal with my tetras and swordtail's Oh and a ten with one angel we are waiteing to sex and pair.
But be careful we started out it was a hobby lol And now

edith

I used to keep Angelfish in a small tank when I was a kid. They died easily, without any obvious reason. Like you mentioned, they just stop eating, hide in one corner and die in a few days.

Now I have 4 Angelfish in my 75G tank. I can say that they are pretty robust and forgiving fish. They have survived Camallanus (and strong medical treatment) and starving 9 days when I was away from vacation.

Give them a lot of space and weekly water change (25 - 30%), and they will reward you with one of the most elegant display of all tropical fish. Yes, I totally agree with Doedogg that they are also thoroughly entertainly creatures.

Hang in there and good luck!

Hi,
Nitrate is the end product of the Nitrogen Cycle and some
fish are very sensitive to high nitrate levels. In a fish
only tank one should strive for a nitrate reading of zero
while a planted tank should be around 10. Readings of
40+ indicate a tank that is lacking in maintenance, is
probably over crowded, and over fed.

Most (many) do not check the Nitrate reading and then
one day they start loosing new additions to their tanks.
This confuses them because the current fish are doing fine,
its the new ones that are dying off. Then when they
finally check their Nitrate reading it can be 100+!

Water changes are a must, if for no other reason than to
dilute the "soup" in the tank. How often and how much
should depend upon the bio-load of the tank, including how
much food is fed. Also, when doing a water change, the
gravel should be vacuumed as well. Mentally divide the
non-planted part of the tank into four sections and with
each water change vacuum a different section. That way
at the end of a month, you will have cleaned the entire
tank and at the same time given the cleaned sections time
to recover.

Water changes, gravel vacuuming, light feeding, and lightly
stocking a tank are the main ways to control Nitrate.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Frank, and others, many thanks. I clearly goofed with the tank size, and I need to pay attention to nitrate. It's not a parameter in my basic WQ test kit, so I'll need to add on.

Mike

Ive gotta say i find angels pretty tough, but a lot of them are terribly inbred, and despite being a little tougher and more forgiving about water quality than discus they share most of the major medical problems and some of the mental issues too. Stress and photoshock can kill them, and if in a tank with other fish when juvenile they can be painfully shy even to the point of not eating. With baby angels especially, one of the issues can be lack of cover, combine that with being given foods they are unused to eating due to bad breeding and raising practises, and you get picky feeders who are too nervous to try knew things. Problem is when that happens and diet variety cannot be maintained they become seriously susceptible to diseases like hexamita, and any internal parasites they may be carrying will eat them alive. Another common problem with angels is temperatue, with very inbred specimens , rather like discus, if not kept at higher end temperatures they simply wane and die, having reduced immuno response.

The one thing that really doesnt seem to matter much, is oddly enough, the ph. They seem tolerant as any fish ive kept.

Since ive had bigger planted tanks for the last decade or so, and have a staggering variety of foods available for them, I find angel keeping an absolute doddle.They usually just mooch around the tanks taking their share of the food, requiring no special attention in the big communities.