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this ones a bit strange, I was just doing some long awaited tank maitenence on my 17 gallon guppy fry tank, it has no filteration, only a large airstone and a heater (I rely mostly on biological filtration. i have a hobby which involves colecting semi-precious stones (like hematite, moonstone, and agates for example), stones like these supposedly have an effect on ones personality. I threw a couple stones in the tank to spiff it up. the stones were labradorite, amazonite, crystal quartz, and citrine. I also bought an algae control agent made by Tetra. its the "new!! broad spectrum algae control for freshwater aqairiums". the main ingredient is poly ethylene at a 5.4% concentration. I added the proper amount of 1 ml per 12 gallons, my tank just happens to hold 12 gallons of water(the rest is displaced by gravel). thinking that the stones would have compounds that might react with the algae chemical I took them out to administer the algae chemical. so I cleaned the tank and put the stones in, in the morning, and took the stones out and put the chemical in at night along with some cycle. so the fish spent the night without the stones and only the chemical in the tank.....so this morning when i woke up to feed them, as soon as i got near the tank the mojority of the fish(13 of them) all swam to one corner of the tank and huddled together cowering, some even went into shock and froze up, the other minority(7 of my biggest guppies), didnt care if i was there and came to the surface to be fed. these numbers sound wierd, 13 is the unlucky number, and 7 is the lucky one, but its all superstition...just like my stones, so i'm thinking either the stones somehow affected my guppies, but the only stone that would have done that is the crystal quartz(its associated with memory)......could somehow the fish have forgotten who i was and are now frightened? or are the chemicals messing with their heads? in attempt to make a quick fix, i put the crystal quartz stone back in. I'm thinking that its the chemicals because only the smaller fish were affected. will they get used to the chemicals? it said on the bottle that its fish freindly. or has the quartz crystal captured their memories and are now forever bonded to the crystal?......"what just happened to my fish!?" is what i'm thinking right now.....can someone help me out please?

~He who dares not grasp the thorns, should never crave the rose~

There is a good possibility that one or all of the combined stones is releasing a chemical or even an electrical or magnetic problem I would take all those stones out immediatly then do a water change add some Melafix (for stress)

Most if not all Algae controls release a chemical to kill the algae this chemical can be very unsuitable to all fish and I think you will find that no one uses it from FP especially the more experienced fish keepers.

Saying that I would do several good water changes until all the algae killer has completly gone.
I would think this is possibly the main cause but the stones could also be helping to cause this problem.

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Keith

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I am very familiar with the stones in question due to the fact I am a pagan. They can leach chemicals into the water, and Quartz crystals actually release trace amounts of Radiation, constantly. Remove the stones from the tank and due what Keith said waterchanges untill the Algae Killer is gone. You might also add in a filter with Activated Carbon in it, and for algae control get about 4 or 5 Otocinclus. they will due the job nicely.

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well thats pretty straightforward, I had a suspicion that the stones were doing something(not so much metaphysical but rather chemically), and on top of that the algae killer was also a big problem, I lost about 4 due to shock. I just ran out of melafix too, but i have Dr.Wellfish's aquairium salt, is that just as good? luckily the fish still eat. for now the algae is gone,so i have no need for ottos yet, i also heard that ottos are very hard to care for, is that true? otherwise, everything is back to normal, the stones are out, the water is changed, and i am very greatful that a pagan and a fishkeeping pro was here to lead me in the right direction. thanks a bunch.

~He who dares not grasp the thorns, should never crave the rose~

Otttos like all fish are easy to keep all you have to do is provide all their requirements.

I have some in my Betta tank and I lost a few to start of with cause unknown. Now they are breeding why????. All I have done is do big weekly water changes, liquid ferts, plenty of plants, DW, and DONT WORRY ABOUT A LITTLE ALGAE.
I also raised the temp for another reason. Before you buy them make sure you see them eating and they are fat and healthy.

With any decorations in a tank it is far safer to stick to the known rather that experment just because it looks nice. Rocks and Wood can be very dangerous in a tank if they are not the correct types. Many want to put them in their tanks just because it is free and collectable. There are test that can be used on rocks but wood is a totally different matter always stick to the correct type of DW.
You might have seen in some of my replies I have collected pieces in my 5ft tank. Reason my total working life envolved wood and I think I have a good knowledge of what is safe and what is not

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Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
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The other thing that leaps out at me is that level of stocking and the small size of the tank with no filtration, with little water movement , oxygen saturation will be low, and the effect of ph changes more ounced. Do you know what the water perameters are? The fish might be living on the edge of survivable conditions. Most of the bacterial and resin based aids like tetrabalance etc, are a help , but no replacement for a filter.

right now I reside in the american state of maryland, and the location has alot of algae problems, I do water changes weekly and the algae is still very persistant, it clouds the water, and forms a brown vail over the glass, the ottos at my LFS are kept poorly (petco), they always look sick and malnurished. i have no ornaments in the tank because the ones i own are potentially covered in the spores of an extremely aggressive type of green water algae, and i'm afraid to put them in any contact with water (I bleached the ornaments and not even that killed the spores.)I dont mind a little algae, but it gets out of control, back in germany nothing like this happened, so i took desperate measures. but for now its all better, i think i'm getting used to the growth rate of the algae here so i can control it properly, i may try ottos, but i'm gonna keep looking around for ones worth the money. as for the guppies and their non filtered tank, they like it, guppies prefer slow moving or stagnant water, I dont know the water perameters here, all i know is that the ph is slightly basic (about 7.4) and that is great for guppies.

~He who dares not grasp the thorns, should never crave the rose~

Hi there,
No fish likes stagnant water. Im sorry, im not sure where you heard that. All fish like fresh clean water.
My suggestion to you, Add a filter!!
I too would suggest removing the stones, cleaning the tank more often.
Id add a filter, and change some water.
You should be changing 35% minimum of the water, with a gravel vaccuum once a week. You say you believe in biological filtration, but nitrobacter only grows well in clean, well aerated water, and grows best inside of filter media in fast flowing oxygenated water.

I would also add some live plants to combat the free floating algae.
It sounds like your fish need more clean water, more oxygen, and more cleanliness on your part.


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Sneaky there is completely correct , you have been previously completely misinformed about filtration. No fish that relies on its gills unless also gifted with a labyrinth organ or primitive lung can ever enjoy stagnant water. Guppies do not live in stagnant water, and never have outside of droughts, and then that is a life or death test for them.

Biological filtration in a tank with no filter is basically the least active biological level you can get, and for fish to survive under those conditions takes a massive proportionate amount of water, say 40 gallons for one guppy, and thats with plants and at least some water disturbance.

Under the circumstances you keep fish in , ammonia and nitrite poisoning is a given and the fish will either have to be the few survivors of an exceptionally tough batch, taking damage and having to heal from it until ammonia finally scars the gills enough to cause suffocation over time,or simply die within days or weeks, plus its not the way any animal would wish to go.

Anyone with a modern expectation of stocking (ie high) needs a filter full stop. Your aquarium will be nothing but a death trap until that piece of information hits home.

Get a filter, undergravel , internal, hob, it doesnt matter, but get one or the fish will just die.

We use filters to replicate the amount of biological activity in nature,its a way of raising the bacterial processing level to that of a body of water perhaps more than ten times the size of your tank, hence keeping the fish alive in quarters that would normally be too small to survive within.

That is the whole point of having one, so that you can keep fish in a small tank instead of needing a swimming pool, complete with thousands of plants, the flow and disturbace of wind and water current, and several tons of available bacterially embedded surfaces. Something like an eheim 2224 has for example the same bacterial processing power as a chunk of river about the size of your front room , meaning you can keep several dozen 4 inch fish with one in a 4-5 foot tank, as oppose to having just one neon tetra in a planted 40 gallon.

Without a filter you dont stand a hope in hell of keeping the fish well and undamaged. There is no principle that will help you in this, not additives, not water changes, nothing. Good water quality is stable water quality, free of detectable ammonia and nitrite, and theres simply no way to achieve that without a filter in the confines of a relatively small tank such as yours.

The fish you keep may be tough, but they are not extremophile species, and basically you have to get the principles of good fishkeeping under way before they die. That way you get to avoid fish abuse.

Excellent Post Longhaired Git. I give it one wholehearted standing ovation.
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