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I would like some opinions on how long it takes to clear up Ich. I'm treating with Cppersafe, b/c I have a Clown loach & i know they're sensitive to a lot of meds.
I've been treating the tank with Coppersafe for over a week! Is it normal for the fish to still have ich? Should I start another med?
i love my fish, & i don't want them to suffer.

It can happen certainly. Development and reproduction of ichthyophthiriasis infections are often temperature dependant.

Understanding its life cycle of this parasite can help you treat it effectively, so here goes.

Ich is an odd infection that can only be killed at certain stages in its life. The free swimming tomite stage being the only time that meds are effective. Adults already buried in the skin cannot be killed, but only live for short periods, and if subjected to temperatures of 32 c in aquaria , will complete their life cycle in 5 days and die.

So aside from raising the temperature there are a range of meds that will kill the tomite stages, thus ending the multigenerational infection, and these are in order of effectiveness .

1)Formalin. This kills tomites, and some other stages, but not the adults already lodged in the skin.
2) Malachite green,
3)methylene blue.
4)potassium permanganate,
5) quinine hydrochloride.
6) sodium chloride,(yes thats salt to you and me, but its a fairly ineffective treatment), and lastly..

7) Just raising the temperature alone. Raising temps basically helps you get rid of the disease quickly when done in conjunction to using meds, but on its own it only kills a small number of adults and tomites, if you dont use meds you can actually geometrically increase the amount of parasites that fish are exposed to. The theory being that you could prevent the tomites from attaching to the fish, but unfortunately regular testing showed that this really only worked on barbs and other fish with an already high level of resistance to the parasite. Average tests showed that using temperature control on most species without using meds to kill the tomites just resulted in massive reinfections and higher morbidity rates reaching 100% in most cases, even though the long term vaibility of the ich reproductive cycle became less efficient over a period of weeks.

Ich reproduces most efficiently at 24-26c , so make sure you avoid that particular temperature range unless you are using meds.

Basically raising temps and doing nothing else kills most fish exposed to whitespot infections, by hyperaccelerating the reproduction of the ich. In the fishkeeprs point of view using temperature cotrol alone is a massive gamble in shifting favourable odds between the the ability of the ich to reproduce, and the fish's ability to create a barrier defence with its skin tissue. Its not a gamble that most people, or fish win. Its bad practise.

Basically im giving you all this information to illustrate that you should treat ich in the temperature zone that destabilises it, in addition to using meds. It shortens its life cycle , and then forces it into a vulnerable stage in its life, which you can kill off with treatments.

In case anyone was wondering incidentally, the most effective treatment for ich...wait for it...is UV steralisation. Bar none.

If I had to choose a commercial medication that I know works a treat, and kills other infections that might be misdiagnosed as ich as well as ich itself, like velvet or gold dust infections, id go for the ESHA LABS product known as EXIT.

Change meds, up the temps and bingo.ICH is emminently beatable, do not worry about the fish suffering, they only do that when you cant kill it. Nail that sucker! This is not a disease that should be able to push you into a defeatist attitude, its a perfectly routine infection of aquarium fish, not a plague, and it should be treated routinely. Bump it off, and laugh in its face

Hope this helps.

I wouldnt use Coppersafe with Loaches. It has copper in it, which can be lethal to scaleless fish and binds to the aquarium surfaces and is impossible to remove.
Id highly recommend high temps coupled with Kents Marine RX-P. Its safe, all natural, and works great.
It usually takes a treatment of 14 days to cure Ich.
The ich cannot be killed when it is on the fish, only when it is free swimming. 84-86F should do it.
Ive used RX-P several times for ich.
On the bottle there is a peel back label, inside it says that it is safe for freshwater fish too.
I wouldnt be surprised if they change the name from Kents Marine RX-P to just Kents RX-P soon.

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Thanks for your help, guys.

Do you know if it's OK to start another treatment? The Coppersafe is not working, I don't think. I've bought some IchGuard II, it it alright to start using it?

Another question:

What is the deal with UV sterilization? Is it costly? The only info I've seen on it seemed to be in reference to salt water tanks. How do you set it up?

They are expensive this is true, usually you just connect them on the outflow of the filter. Some of the posh ones have their own pumps. It is costly, and the uv bulbs in them dont last forever, but if you have a big beautiful tank full of much loved fish, and really cruddy disease ridden LFS 's, they can be worth their weight in gold for you. They basically eliminate any infection that reproduces in the water. Cuts disease incidences down by about 98%. They work by pushing the tankwater between some plates or have it well in a small chamber so the exposure to a super intense uv source is very close, and pretty much any living thing passing though the uv gets fried.

Very useful for folks who keep clown loaches, scaleless catfish and mormyrids, who tend to drop dead when exposed to medicines.

As I said before, I do have a Clown Loach; i was dumb & bought one b/c the LFS didn't bother to explain how large they get. It's just a little baby now. It's my fault for buying something that I didn't know anything about. And that's part of the reason I have used anything on the ich but coppersafe, although i've heard conflicting things about it. We all love the clown; don't want to see it die. i honestly don't have the funds right now to buy anything like a UV sterilizer, though.

Before using a new medicine, put some fresh activated
carbon in your filter. Run it for 24 hours then remove it.
Do a large 50% water change as well.
This should remove most of the meds.

What size is your tank? Do ya know how big clown loaches get? They grow to be 12 inches long, and they are very social fish so really should be kept in at least a trio.

They do however grow very slowly, averaging 1-2 inches per year.
At maturity a trio of clown loaches would need at least a 75g tank. (Even a single clown needs that much space really.)

Also,
theres no real need for a UV sterilizer in your tank.
Best way to stop 98% of diseases in your tank - use a quarantine tank.



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The BIG mistake many people make with Ich concerns the length of time medication needs to be in place to kill the free swimming stages.

Once the white cysts have dropped off the infected fish, they spend up to 72 hours dividing into hundreds of daughter cells, that become the free swimming tomites that are vulnerable to medication. You have to keep the medication levels present at the required dosage from the very first moment you see white spots on the fish, up to AT LEAST 7 days after the disappearance of the last white spot, to make sure that all the free swimming stages are killed by the meds. Raising the temperature as LHG said assists matters by speeding up the life cycle, but ONLY if meds are in place, and at the lethal dosage for the tomites. Hence the need to KEEP DOSING the aquarium for up to 7 days AFTER the last white cyst has fallen from the infected fishes.


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

Thanks for your input. I am now using a combo of heat/meds/water changes to combat the ich. After doing some research online, this seems this best defense. By the way, I love Panda Cories!

Hey So_Very_Sneaky, you're 100% correct, the tank is way too small for a Clown Loach. Don't worry, I plan on upgrading ASAP. (I'll have to save up)

I also went ahead & bought a UV Sterilizer to help keep my water healthier for the fish, too.

Heather you can find UV sterilizer starting at $79.99 online. That for the 9w twist UV. I have Uv on all my tanks except one and that because it has a hang-on filter on it because I have not figure out how to get the wife to increase my fish allowance. Anyway, Ich is in all tanks it stress on the fish that causes it to come out. In the tank without UV I use ich-X it works good and never had any problems with it except it will turn all clear poly pipe blue and will stain anything it touchs. Also turn the temp slowly up to 82F to 84F this will increase the repoductive time of the ich. Also Check before you add any meds to your tank to see if it will harm the fish. READ THE BOTTLE Some fish and invertibrates will be killed by meds. Ghost shrimps Kulli Loaches. Remember to REMOVE all Carbon from filter including UGF stacks as some people have them there as will as in there filtes. The carbon will absorb the meds and you just waisted your money. Remember to do particle water changes before dosing again as over meding will kill everything. Ich is a ommon problem and I feel safe in saying that even the most exstream hobbiest has had to deal with it.

DjRichie
"Don't Panic"

Djrichie
"So Long, and Thanks For All The Fish" Douglas Adams

Not to be a party poop and its a bit off the subject, but unless you have several clown loaches I would look into returning it. They are not happy unless they have a few pals of the same breed and they need a lot of room to grow. That would take care of part of your obstacle. I have clowns myself and absolutely love them but you can see a difference in their behavior when in a group to know that is how they are meant to be kept

i'm already planning on upgrading to a much larger tank one day, also adding more clowns to the mix.

Also, i am not meaning to be a realist(ufgradufish stole the partypooper idea), but the loaches can get up to a foot long it think. A larger tank needs to be a 75 or larger to accomodate 6 of them!

The ich cure i am using is very reliable, and gets it done well. Only, the methylene blue and malachite green are stainers. Personally, i would use the latter of the two, as it is the least expensive, and is often the most sold. If you can get your hands on a UV, then dont even consider buying the meds again!(just exxagerating). UV is the leading cure to most diseases.

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Yes, I have been researching them. I know what I'll have to get.

Here the cheapest places I have found them online and this there current prices. I research for 2 months tring to save money, I still need another Canister and UV. Will it ever end?
http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18545/si1383256/cl0/coralifeturbotwist3x9wattuvsterilizer
http://www.petsolutions.com/Turbo+Twist+Sterilizer-I-96377070-I-C-47-C-.aspx
I use petsolutions a lot and they price match, but just a suggestion look and see what else you need and if you can afford it try buy enough for the free shipping. You will truly save money over buying it in the LFS. They want 150.00 for 9watts at the cheapest guy I can find.

I do like Turbo-Twist Sterilizers myself easy to install easy to maintain. Replacement bulbs are about 32.00 and need to be done every year to keep effectiveness. Your tank water will never be clearer.

Djriche
"Don't Panic"



Djrichie
"So Long, and Thanks For All The Fish" Douglas Adams