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I suppose this is a free discussion on all things related to the infection "ich".



It is to my understanding that rapid water temperature drops may induce stress, thus triggering a minor breakdown of the slime coat, but large enough to initiate an ich infection. However, the ich are not existing members of the tank until the parasites are introduced. I recently started a debate on this subject and wish to finish it here on this board.

Cup_of_Lifenoodles


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I also hope this clarifies some of the myths about Ich

Note this important statement.
"If introduced into a healthy tank little harm may occur."

Stating that it can cause an outbreak at any time if the correct conditions occur. Making many think it was not an introduced problem, because it was detected on a sick fish long after it was introduced.

This information was collected from Fresh Water Tropical Fish
Prevention
If white-spot appears in an otherwise healthy tank, the parasite “must” have been introduced either as an adult on a newly acquired fish, or as the cyst form on, for example new stones, a plant or even added water. The only certain method of prevention, is to quarantine all new stock, including stones, plants etc; preferably in water at a temperature of 77F. Allow one week’s quarantine.


Several very interesting points to think about.

Very easy to recognise.
Its reproduction cycle.
No host they will die.
If introduced into a healthy tank little harm may occur.
Pay attention to all tank details.
Weakened fish, and lack of oxygen can/may and will cause sever deaths. All this is usually caused by poor tank maintenance and/or incorrect and faulty equipment.
Prevention is the best cure
A Parasite “must” be introduced into the tank.

This information was collected from Fresh Water Tropical Fish

Keith

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This is a continuation of a discussion started in anohter thread....

In my own personal experience I've never had an ich outbreak occur after say power outages with the filters stopped. Of the three times I had ich show up, one involved an entire tank being transported and reset up, however hat one also involved 2 nights without a heater in summer (AC set to 65 ). 10 gallon ended up with ich when I thought the temp was too high and so added ice cubes ( don't EVER do that . 20 gallon ended up with ich when I thought it was warm enough for the tank to go sans heater and removed it.

I'm not saying that temperature fluctuations is the only time that ich will show up, I've had plenty of stopped filters, and my regular maintence isn't always done on a weekly basis therefore the conculsion I can draw from my own personal experiences is that it's not safe to run a tank sans heater as fluctuations tend to lead to ich. To encourage someone to run a tank without one IMO is as irresponsible as a statement such as "dont worry about the filter as it's just an added expense and isnt really needed"*. Sure it can be done, but isn't always practical.

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* This was used as an example, please fully research any filtration decisions including non filtered tanks fully before implimentation.

I've actually never had ich in any of MY aquariums. However, for what its worth, I keep all my aquarium temperatures pretty high (most set around 80, lowest at 78).

However, some of you may notice that this can be a problem with power outages, and indeed it is. If the power is out long enough, my fish gasp for air.

Good discussion topic.

I would like to see more threads like this in hospital, I think it's good to gain a better understanding of our enemies rather than just having "HELP ME!!! MY FISH ARE DYING!!!" threads all the time and nothing else.

In particular the question that was raised before was whether temperature changes alone are enough to cause an ich outbreak. My own knowledge and experience would indicate that this simply is not the case. Like you said, COL, the ich parasite (Ichthyophthirius multifiliis) needs to be present in the system in order to cause a problem.

On the other hand I have seen reports that the parasite is almost always present in even healthy fish in healthy aquaria (any "natural" water system really), but as long as conditions favour the fish rather than the parasite it is never really problematic for them. The fish and ich parasite can live together without any visible damage to the fish, and the fish have some kind of natural immunity that protects them from any severe harm. I have read a few research papers that suggest an external mucosal immune system in fish protects them from any severe infestations as long as they are kept in optimal condition, they have antibodies that force the parasite to be expelled prematurely from their tissue. The problem of course is that when the fish are exposed to environmental stressors, this natural immunity appears to break down, the parasite takes advantage of the situation and multiplies rapidly, you start seeing visible signs of disease. This is also a reasonable explanation for scaleless and smooth skinned fish seeming to be particularly e to ich infestation. Their immune systems just aren't as proficient at dealing with it. In general though, as long as any fish is kept healthy and as stress free as possible, ich really isn't an issue.

IME normal temperature fluctuations from day to night in aquaria aren't enough to cause an ich outbreak on their own. If they were, it would be impossible to keep fish outside in small ponds without them all being killed by ich very quickly. I have kept tropicals outside in small container ponds, it's normal for the air temperature to go from 25C during the day to the high teens at night and the water temperature drops quite a bit but I have never noticed any ill effect in the fish. They do just fine. I also don't use heaters on my tanks during the summer, temperature during the day is 77 and drops to about 72-73 at night (temp in winter is kept between 72-75), again I haven't had any ich outbreaks in my fish. I also do water changes quite frequently with water a few degrees cooler than the tank to simulate a cool rain. The fish haven't shown any negative effect, on the contrary they usually get pretty excited by it and I'll often see zebra danio eggs in my tank shortly afterward (but they always get eaten ).

IMO it takes a significant amount of stress to reduce fishes' immunity to the parasite enough to see an outbreak and I don't think normal temperature fluctuations of a few degrees are enough to do it, if you do see ich showing up after a few degrees change in temperature it may very well be "the straw that broke the camel's back." Instead of blaming temperature alone, check to see if there may be other factors causing the fish stress before you jump to any conclusions. The only incident I have had with ich in my own fish was in a recent purchase, I'm certain I exposed my other fish to it and cross contaminated the tanks at the time before I saw spots (not drying nets properly, etc.) but they never showed any sign of disease. If the temperature dropped about 10 degrees really rapidly then maybe I could see it being stressful enough, but that really shouldn't happen in the aquarium and is really easy to prevent.

It's also important to note that the white spots associated with ich are NOT actually the parasite, they are small blisters or sores and excess slime production that are the result of irritation from the ich parasite in the fishes' skin. From my understanding of it, it is possible to have a very small amount of ich infestation without any visible sign of irritation. When you see the fish showing signs of distress, sores, etc. it is a case of some kind of threshold being broken between latent infestation and the point where it becomes infectious. Keep your fish healthy and this threshold should not be crossed.

The point Keith brings up about ich contamination on wet plants, decorations, contaminated water, etc. is an important one because the theront/tomont stage can be transmitted by any wet object. Ich can come in on anything, not just fish. The good news is that the parasite must find a host within about 48 hours or it dies, and drying objects out thoroughly will also prevent infection.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: An ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure (this does apply to fish tanks!). Luckily ich is one of the easiest diseases we deal with as far as prevention goes, it's very simple:

- QT any fish you buy for at least a week
- discard bag water that comes with new fish and plants
- if possible buy plants only from tanks with no fish
- keep plants in QT for a few days without any fish present for any tomonts/theronts to infect
- dry decorations, nets, tools etc. completely before transferring or using them between tanks
- if plant QT is impossible, a quick and weak alum/potassium permanganate/hydrogen peroxide/bleach dip should be effective in removing any parasites
- keep your fish healthy and free of stress! if you do they can more than cope with any reasonable pH and temperature changes without ill effect

Good water quality, maintenance, good food and healthy fish go a long way. Ich is still the leading cause of mortality in captive fish as far as I know, even though it's extremely easy to prevent and treat! I think with a bit more knowledge among hobbyists we should be able to change that in the aquarium at least, ich is more of a nuisance once you know how to deal with it than a serious threat.

IME Ich, fungus, and other parasites are comparitively easy to diagnose, which in turn makes treatment easy. I find it a lot more difficult to treat ilness with less subtle symptoms, or diseases that show no symptoms until the fish is already too far gone. I have had one ich infestation carried in from new fish, but have never had any fatalities from ich.

I just had a very well established school of cardinals (18 months) die from ICH. I've never seen it kill my fish so rapidly, within a few days I lost 10 from the school. This was the worst fish loss I have ever experienced.

They didn't get it from temp change, but from what I could tell it was from a ph swing due to co2 reduction.

To be honest, I'm not sure what neon tetra disease looks like, if it looks like ich maybe that's what did it, because I've gotten ich breakouts before due to temp fluct, but have always cured it.



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