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One of the golds this time

Like this, but gold.
http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/profiles/555.htm

He's thrashing around, twisting and hanging from the surface of the water. He's obviously in distress.

Not yet finished the Melafix, but in view of the blue dying is it worth finishing the course or not?

Water levels for ammonia, nitrate and nitrite still all showing the lowest in the kit - 0ppm.

The other fish are taking a pop at him, but absolutely no idea what is wrong.... HELP!!! I've never seen anything like it!

The fish passed away very quickly. It went from being fine this morning to thrashing around and dying very quickly within the space of an hour.

What on earth caused it?

If everything is in the 0s range, then your tank might not have cycled at all. How long have you cycled it, if at all? How many fish did you put in at a time? What is your stocking? You said melafix dyed the water blue? What is the bottle of "melafix" say? What are the ingredients?

Other wise, do you have a liquid, dry, or strip test kit? The 5 in 1 strips are not as accurate.

List every possible detail for detailed information. Otherwise, we can only answer as much as we can with limited information.

When you say "GoldS" how many of the 3-spots do you have? They arent really meant for housing together. Two males will pretty much constantly bicker with everyone, including the other fishmates. If you have a female too, she will be harassed constantly by all of the males. They do get pretty large, topping off at 5+" and should be put in a larger than 20gallon size aquarium. Mine still has aways to go, so it will be ok for the moment.

More details and well be on ti right away!

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Gobyfan, this from my previous problem, I had a dwarf blue Gourami injured then die a few days ago.

"I'm not entirely sure if it is an attack to be honest, I've not seen any of the other fish attack it, but I am clueless as to what else it could be....

I have recently been restocking the tank... it had got down to 4 neon tetras and 2 harlequin rasboras, 2 corydoras julii and a bristlenose plec.

So, I bought 4 gourami, all dwarf variety, two blue with red tails and 2 gold. All male. Bought them 10 days ago. They all seem in good health as do their tankmates, however one of the blue gourami started with a small red spot just by his dorsal fin two days ago. Since then this has progressed to an area of scales missing the size of the eraser end of a pencil - quite big considering the total size of the fish. There is also a small area of scales missing on the other side, again just below the dorsal fin.

As I say I have not seen any attacks at all, we find the damage when we come down in the morning. I haven't a clue what to do, we have a 100 litre (uk) tank, the ammonia/nitrate/nitrite levels are all registering the lowest reading on the test reading strip so there doesn't appear to be a problem there.

Could it be anything else? And if the poor creature is getting attacked what do we do? We only have the one tank.

Any advice would be most welcome."

This tank has been running for about 5 years now. Various different tetras and barbs, but as they'd died off I decided to try something new. Unfortunately gourami were unfamiliar and I didn't realise about numbers of males. Originally I had 2 dwarf blues and 2 golds, I now have just the one blue and one gold.

I have separate liquid tests for ammonia, nitrate and nitrite, made by a company called Aquarium Pharmaceuticals inc. You take the sample, add x drops of solution and read the result. They're all reading 0ppm - lowest reading the kit does. I think my bacterial filter is running fine.

It is Melafix I am treating with, the 'blue' was a reference to the blue gourami that died - apologies for that. Two days left of the weeks' course to go - do I continue?

I'm very swiftly going off Gourami - never had this amount of trouble with other fish in 10+ years of fishkeeping!

Could it have been shock? I just have never, ever seen a fish twisting and lurching around like that before...

I have, neurological protozoan infections, twirling disease or similar.The red spot was probably a burst cyst, a period of time of bacterial or parasitic infection when it reproduces massively, often thoudands of times. Time for metronidazole, or another antiprotozoan med, if you can get jungle labs antiparasite formula it is the easiest way to administer it. I wouldnt give up on the melafix yet either, as protozoa lower immunity and open fish up to all sorts of necrotic diseases like finrot and fungus.

Before because we did not know the disease progression we were tackling symptoms, now the way the last gourami died significantly lessenned the odds on accurate diagnosis. You have a primary problem of a protozoan infection, and secondary bacterial tissue rot issues. Treat both.

So that could cause a fish with no spots, no rot, nothing, that looked perfectly healthy to start doing that then expire so quickly?

That's shocking


What are

neurological protozoan infections, twirling disease or similar

I've seriously never come across these, sound worrying.

So, finish the full course of Melafix (further 2 days to go), then do I do the water change as planned?

I'll get out tomorrow morning to get the metronidazole.

Yup that sounds about right.

Man, all this makes The hobby sound like an operation room! It makes my head hurt.......

Gouramis are such nice fish, that it seems a shame to see one dead....... I am by no means putting shame on you, because i killed one myself too ............. Now i have a problem with re-moving and re-sizing tanks and stocking. Now hopefully the 35+gal hex im getting will include one of the gouramis, the gold, and the TBs, along with cyprinids and SAEs. I will also have a krib in there too!

Good luck, and if it dies........ Just know you did your best....

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Right, so continuing Melafix, water change after last dose tomorrow.

I'll see what treatment I can get today, do I use it at the same time as the Melafix or wait till after the water change tomorrow?

I so want to get this right...

Depends what product you get, but most meds can be used at the same time as melafix. Just let us know what you manage to get before you put it in.

thank you, wasn't able to get out yesterday am hoping I can today

Sorry about not posting, have had a bereavment (stillborn baby) since last post....

The good news is that the deaths have stopped, all appear healthy now

The only problem is the nitrate level is high... the ammonia and nitrite and pH are perfect though... what could be the cause of this?

Have done a 25% water change, but can anyone tell me the root cause? We'll also be introducing plants to help with levels this week.

Just done another nitrate test, the levels are even higher since the water change....

What we did.... before doing the water change I tested the nitrate levels in our tap water and they were really, really high, so I then tested the nitrate levels in our rainwater butt (fresh rainwater, the butt was emptied and cleaned last week) and they were much lower. So we used rainwater.

We used the aqua safe in the rainwater to be on the safe side, but the nitrate levels are now higher.... I just don't get it.

Probably the presence of organic detritus in the rainwater collection vessel. Might not show high nitrate in the container, but stick it in a fishtank with a filter, and watch the nitrates go up.Further info about, the tanksize, decoration, stocking etc might help us to work it out. Do you gravel clean when doing water changes, and do you occassionally empty the at least some of the mulm from your filter? Is there lots of algae in the tank that dies off in patches?

Sory about the stillborn baby, my sincere sympathies.

There's not a great deal of algae now.
Full stocking list.

2 dwarf gourami
2 harlequin rasboras
3 neon tetras
4 clown loaches (very small at present)
2 corydoras julii
1 bristlenose plec

100 litre tank.
Decor is mainly rocks and bogwood. No planting although plenty of hiding places. All rocks etc suitable for aquariums.

We do vacum our gravel. The filter is rinsed out in rainwater monthly.

Have spoken to the nice man from Maidenhead Aquatics today, we did nitrate checks on our tapwater that came up very little better than the tank reading, and as I said before, the rainwater was a lot better.

His suggestion was that when doing a 10% water change weekly, use 90% rainwater polished with carbon for 24 hours and 10% tap water to put minerals in that would be otherwise absent with rainwater.

In the meantime he has given us TetraSafe NitrateMinus liquid to try and get levels down before next weeks' water change.

Would you say this advice is sound, or would you have any alternative suggestions?

Well, in effect by asking you to filter the water with carbon before putting it in the tank, hes adding a level of safety, by removing toxins, but nitrate is not included among those toxins, so it will have little effect on water quality other than to stop some detritus ever reaching the tank.

Tetra nitrate minus does work, but it is partly polymer and resin absorbtive nittrate control, combined with additional denitrifying bacteria. Success with this product depends on your tank being conducive to bacterial growth and stable enough with enough surfaces to harbour this bacteria over the long term, and I find its often more effective in larger tanks. It often takes months before decent nitrate reducing results are achieved, even when dosing with the product weekly. I use it myself and it does work, but it takes a great deal of time to really get working. I also find its most effective at 79f dead on, even 2 degree variations really seems to make a difference.

If you have a decent budget, of perhaps a £100 handy, you can get an RO filter, and that will basically end the nitrate problems, and indeed just about any other water quality issues with new water, but again, its quite excessive for a small tank.

Right. Certainly not something we can do this month, funeral expenses unfortunately.
However, we will keep plugging with what has been suggested and probably get a RO unit next month.