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Ive just spotted some small spots on 2 of my dwarf neon rainbows, I managed to net one and the "spot" came off in the process.

However I am now panicing, as I have never treated a disease before. I dont have a hospital tank either .

Tank parameters are 0 amonia 0 nitrite 20 nitrate (sorry if i got the rite and the rate mixed up but basicaly I have good parameters)

The last fish that were added were a week ago, again I was not able to quarentine them but they were 3 silver hatchets but the tank was very healthy that they came from and the store runs them on internal filters.....its just occured to me that it could have been one of them as the spots appearing now would co inside with an end of a lifecycle?

IF it is the worst case scenario can someone please recomend the best course of action.

I have read that if you get it in the early stages it can be easier to get rid of faster I really dont want to loose any fish im so attached to all of them.

Please recomend products I have good LFS that stock most things. I will definatly be ringing round 2moro to check up on things. I am at uni in the morning but will do a water change in the afternoon just as a precaution.

Last water change was done on monday.

Also it is a large tank 90US Gallons so what ever the meds I need one that will be suitable for a tank of that size also if you could fully explain which bits of my filter need taking out and stuff.

Thanks again in advance

*edit* just wanted to say the fish are acting as normal and are still eating at mealtimes. Also good colour, could i be panicnign about nothing and they just have detrious on them?

turn up the temperature gradually over the next two days to 82F, then go to the LFS and buy an ich med (malachite green is a good one!) and melafix!

dose up both as recommended...

and remove the carbon form the filter (if it is a cartridge put in a tupperware of tank water and change the water every six hours with tank water).

hope this helps!

also by asking your LFS manger or worker you could and might get a good treatment regimen from themthat they use for their fish!

\\\\\\\"an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of the cure\\\\\\\"

It sounds like ich... to me... very common problem, if the LSF you go to keeps the tanks as clean as you say, than they should be able to guide you. Welcome to the hooby. Not sure of all the fish you have but some fish are sensetive to meds. Loachs is one for sure. so ask the LSF about it.

I'm not sure why brandeeo says use Melafix for ich but I never had to use it to get rid of the ich, but if you use it becareful with melafix and pimaflix as they are tricky. they will actually depleat the water of oxygen, and can end up killing your fish. I lost a school of pencil fish that way. I learned after the fact, to add an airstone to the tank. Hard lesson to learn but I learned and won't make that mistake again.

Djrichie
"So Long, and Thanks For All The Fish" Douglas Adams

I would also say that it is Ich.

Turn up your temp slightly as this will help the growth cycle and help rid the fish of the disease.

Treat with a product containing malachite green and also add an airstone to help aerate the water. Also remove carbon from filter as this will remove the meds.

Would recommend you buy a storage container to treat the fish in rather than the tank as this stuff will turn your tank green and stain things such as air lines and silicone.
Just a cheap storage container that is big enough, invest in a smaller heater, air pump and airstone. Keep these handy in case of emergencies such as this.

If your other fish aren't showing signs (it looks like snow dust) then add some melafix to the big tank just in case as this is a contagious disease.

---

Truth doesn't always win friends but it influences them

I think brandeeno reccomended the melafix as a sort of preventive measure. if the fish's immune systems are weakend from the ich you could use the melafix to head off some problems. Thats just off the top of my head im not sure if thats what he meant. good luck

The true test of character is not how much we know how to do, but how we behave when we dont know what to do.

Here is a lot of very useful information about Ich I strongly suggest you copy and print this out for future reference.
If you have any more questions please ask.
WHITE SPOT ICH

White spot Parasite, Ichthyophthirius multifiliis

This disease is easy to recognise, as the skin of the infected fish becomes covered with white spots, each the size of a pinhead. Each spot represents the site of one, or sometimes two, parasites. All parts of the body gills, may be attacked.

The causative agent is named Ichthyophthirius multifiliis. It is a spherical and large by protozoan standards, measuring up to 1mm in diameter. Short, hair-like processes known as cilia are spread densely over the surface. A horseshoe-shape nucleus is also present which is clearly visible under the microscope.

By the means of the cilia the parasite rotates vigorously and burrows into the surface layer (epidermis) of its host. It feeds on skin cells and surface debris. The burrowing action causes a local irritation and the epidermis grows across the parasite to enclose it, thus forming a “White Spot”

Reproduction occurs away from the host. After maturing in the skin, which takes a few days to three weeks, depending on the temperature, the parasite bores out, swims away and comes to rest on a submerged object such as a stone, or plant. Here it forms a jelly-like cyst within which a series of rapid cell divisions take place. In a few hours, several hundred daughter cells or swarmers, are produced, which break out of the cyst to find a new host. Alighting on the skin, they burrow in to recommence the life cycle. If they fail to find a host within three to four days, they perish.

Symptoms
If the protozoan is introduced into a tank containing healthy fish, little harm may occur, other than a fleeting infection with a few parasites. If however, the fishes are already weakened for some other reason, e.g. lack of oxygen, the parasite will quickly cover the whole body surface, causing irritation and opening up wounds for secondary infections. The host mobility may become affected. In sever cases, death may result.

Prevention
If white-spot appears in an otherwise healthy tank, the parasite “must” have been introduced either as an adult on a newly acquired fish, or as the cyst form on, for example new stones, a plant or even added water. The only certain method of prevention, is to quarantine all new stock, including stones, plants etc; preferably in water at a temperature of 77F. Allow one week’s quarantine.

Treatments
There are too many treatments today to recommend any specific one. Many can be bought easily at aquarium outlets.


Several very interesting points to think about.

Very easy to recognise.
Its reproduction cycle.
No host they will die.
If introduced into a healthy tank little harm may occur.
Pay attention to all tank details.
Weakened fish, and lack of oxygen can/may and will cause sever deaths. All this is usually caused by poor tank maintenance and/or incorrect and faulty equipment.
Prevention is the best cure
A Parasite “must” be introduced into the tank.

This information was collected from Fresh Water Tropical Fish
Compiled by Keith
***********************************************************************************
Calilasseia
POSTED BY Calilasseia

Posted 24-Nov-2006 01:48
The key facts to remember about White Spot (and I'm sure Keith has covered these, but I'll repeat them just in case) are:[1] Only one part of the life cycle of Ichthyophthirius multifiliis, the causative parasite, is susceptible to medication, which means that ...[2] Medication has to be applied even when the symptoms appear to have gone for up to 7 days afterwards, to make sure that all the susceptible stages of the parasite have been eliminated. The parasite in question has a three stage life cycle. The part that manifests itself is the trophont or feeding stage. This stage burrows through the fish's slime coat, attaches itself to the outer layer of tissue or epithelium, and starts feeding upon the fish. This stage is impervious to medication because it forms a protective cyst around itself. The next stage is the tomont stage. This forms when the parasite has ingested sufficient nutrients from the fish to begin reproduction. This stage is largely invisible in the aquarium, because it detaches from the fish, falls into the substrate, and remains encysted while it divides into daughter cells - something like 1,000 daughter cells for each tomont. Because it is encysted, it is impervious to medication again. The third stage is the larval or tomite stage. Each daughter cell becomes a free swimming tomite, which is microscopic and invisible to the eye. At this point in the life cycle, the parasite is vulnerable to medication. The trouble is, of course, that the swarming tomites are microscopic, and so you can't actually see them directly with the naked eye, which means you have to keep medication levels in the aquarium maintained at sufficient concentration to kill the tomites for as long as they are likely to persist. Depending upon temperature, the tomites could mutate into mature trophonts in as little as 3 days or take as long as 7 days. In an aquarium that contains solely Labyrinth Fishes, one means of dealing with the parasite is to increase the ambient aquarium temperature to 85 degrees Fahrenheit during the medication stage. This speeds up the parasite's life cycle, and ensures that the medication can destroy all the free-swimming microscopic tomites before they have a chance to attach themselves to a fish and begin the cycle anew. With NON Labyrinth Fishes, however, this could induce unwanted additional respiratory stresses - Labyrinth Fishes can cope with this because they are able to breathe atmospheric air to compensate for the lower concentration of dissolved oxygen at higher water temperatures, but fishes that rely exclusively upon gill-based respiration cannot do this. Some fishes such as Clown Loaches can be subjected to elevated temperatures as they experience these in the wild periodically, but it's not a good idea to do this with certain other fishes - Panda Corys spring to mind as one species that should NOT be subject to temperatures above 80 degrees F because they're inhabitants of cooler waters in their native Peru, and will die of heat stress if 'cooked' in this manner. So, depending upon ambient temperature, the tomites will appear in as little as 3 days, or you could be unfortunate and the tomites could take 7 days to appear. In cooler aquaria (e.g., a Panda Cory aquarium kept at 72 degrees F) you could be required to maintain medication for up to 14 days. If the fishes can be moved to a hospital tank for treatment, and medicated there, this is preferable because you don't have to subject your main aquarium's biological filter to adverse effects from the medication - you can just destroy the parasites there. Removing the fishes from the main aquarium also has the advantage that any free swimming tomites that arise in the main aquarium are left with no hosts to attach to, and thus starve to death. So, at the end of your medication period in the hospital aquarium, you are free to return the fishes to the main aquarium. Of course, your problem here is that you have to remember to add a small quantity of fish food to the main aquarium as if you were still feeding fishes so that the biological filter in the main aquarium is kept ticking over whilst the fishes themselves are temporarily rehoused. Once the fishes have been removed from the main aquarium, by the way, you can speed things up vis-a-vis destroying remaining parasites by increasing the temperature to 105 degrees F while the fishes are absent, which will speed up the life cycle considerably, and result in the accelerated production of tomites ... which then find themselves bereft of fishes to attach to. And, they starve to death quicker at the higher temperatures, because they use up their reserves more quickly. Get yourself a cheap plastic aquarium that you're never going to use as anything BUT a hospital tank, put your fishes in that, medicate them, then whack up the main aquarium temperature to 105 degrees while the fishes are in the 'hospital'. Once the fishes are free of parasites and have remained so for 7 days, you can return the main aquarium to its normal temperature and reintroduce the now treated fishes. Any watertight container that is safe to house fishes in (i.e., it hasn't ever been used to mix weedkiller or insecticide, and doesn't leach toxic material into the water) can be pressed into service as the 'hospital' for the duration, so long as it is possible to maintain aeration and some basic filtration (e.g., sponge filter) within the container during the medication phase. Oh, and DO NOT use activated carbon filtration or ion exchange resins in the hospital aquarium because that will remove your medication! EDIT : Almost forgot. I use Protozin. Protozin is somewhat expensive, but it is claimed by the makers to be formulated so as to impact as little as possible upon filter bacteria. And, upon the occasions I have had to use it, it works well

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Keith

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Okay thanks guys for all the really good advice, im going to turn up the heater. Bad news is Im not going to be able to get to an LFS till saturday. Good news one fish apears to clear up so at the moment I can only see one spot on one fish.

May have found an other cause? Dont know who heard about it but there was a small earthquake in my area in england (i know i dont understand how either) it was 5.2 so only small however the stress of it killed a friends hamster so could this triger it in fish as well?

Also will the products mention bump my cycle? Im really tempted to buy a small tank but i know i cant really afford one

Yes I'd say the earthquack could have stressed your fish. Genernally, ich is present in all tanks, and when a fish becomes stressed and its immune system is weaken it can find a host to live on. The spots will fall off the fish and then hatch more single cell parasites and becuase the fish immune system is weaken by the out break more white spots will appear, if left untreaded it has caused death, but that is in extreme neglected cases. By turn the heat up you ar just speeded up the ich life cycle. So you might want to wait until you have the meds.

Djrichie
"So Long, and Thanks For All The Fish" Douglas Adams

i said to use melafix because it is good to help reduce the stress on the fish and make sure that in the process of the stress they dont recieve any bacterial infection to go along with the ich. DJ i know that melafix depletes oxygen resources, but it also states iin the label to either lower the water level to provid emore surface agitation or to add more aeration.

\\\\\\\"an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of the cure\\\\\\\"

Probably the best news i can give in my cirumstances. A really really bad LFS is selling off old tanks for cheap so im going to get one tomorow as a quarantine tank. Its small enough to fit in a cupboard as well so new small tank FTW! Ill have a look what meds they have but i dont hold much hope ill try and get to one of the pet superstores on the way home but parents are a little irritating atm about taking places ¬.¬ but i have some tonic salt which worst come to worst should help. Are rainbow fish okay with it?

* and yeah i had a think about turning the temp up and speeding up the lifecycle so ive left the temp down to give me a bit more time.

No for fish showing signs of infection however I am going to put the newest hatchets in as a precaution incase they were carrying it.

Im-trying... understand something about Ich... please know that Ich is in most tanks most of the time, it's sort of the our common cold. So, when you begin to treat for Ich, like they said, raise the temp slowly to 80 or a little bit higher. Also, as you being to see the white spots disappear, you've gotten to the Ich in one stage fo their life cycle. There are three stages. So, to really get the condition back under control, you'll need to treat for Ich for 2-3 weeks beyond when you see the white spots go away.

Since we can only kill Ich during one phase of their life cycle, raising the temp to speed them through the life cycle, only gets them to the stage where we can kill them, more quickly.
Like I said, make sure you treat with your meds for a couple weeks at least, after the spots go away.

Once you've done that, do a good 25% WC and get carbon back into your filter to clear out the rest of the Ich meds.

The Melafix is a good idea, I agree... When the fish are sick, they become susceptible to other issues due to their weakness from the original sickness. Just read dosages carefully and don't over do it. I tend to medicate conservatively, and not just dump a bunch of chemicals in my tanks...

Also, watch your water temp carefully, raise it slowly... I had an issue where I discovered my tank temp had gotten over 90, I must've turned that little thermostat on my heater too far or something and I ended up killing a few fish...

Good luck!

Hi thanks for the reply. Didnt realise im going to be treating it for that long.

I have got some Protozin. As this is what quite a few people I rang round sugested to me. Is this good?

I have been told it is best to treat the full tank after a waterchange so i did that all yesterday. Second dose is going in today, So far I only have 3 affected fish I am almost certain that it came in on the silver hatchets. Are the spots likley to attack other fish while there are meds in the water?

And is it safe to add Melafix at the same time or should i do the weeks worth of protzin mop up that lot of meds add some more a day or 2 after or should i add the protozin and melafix at the same time?

Ty