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Not sure what to do now.

Three weeks ago I noticed my bala shark had ick.

I bought a 3 day treatment that I under-dosed by about a third and it went away on the shark.

I noticed it on Saturday on my clown loach and did a full three day cycle and after th three days, was still there and now my Rainbow Boesmani has it.

I have done a 30% water change and I have just added the second day dosage but it doesn't seem to be very effective.

Is there something I can do?

I have a 60 gallon tank.

ahould be in the hospitol forum,

but salt would usually help in the ick-be-gone, but i have heard that clown loaches don't do well with salt.

my favorite ick-be-gone is jungle buddies ick clear.
just go to a lfs and pick some up. i usually clears in one treatment. simply just follow the directions.

Last edited by bettachris at 07-Jul-2005 13:45

You never got rid of the ick to begin with. You may not have been able to see it on you fish, but it is still present in the water. As a matter of fact, ICK is always in the water, it just a matter of your enviroment, allowing it to develop.
That really strong stuff. 3 day ick, WOW, if your fish are still living, you've got strong fish. Hope you didn't touch that water, as that stuff contains some of the worst cancer causeing agents know to man.
I have used, i have been quite happy, and so have my fish, with the following product. Aquari-Sol, by AP Products, www.aq-products.com. (NO THIS IS NOT A COMERCIAL, AND I DO NOT WORK FOR THIS COMPANY)
Call around to you LFS

so, there is no such thing as the neverending ich. "What utter rubbish" is what Dr. Peter Burgess said about the myth of "ich being in all water" -- and Burgess should know, he studied ich as his Ph.D. thesis topic.

If you completely kill off the organism, it cannot come back unless it is reintroduced. This is exactly the same as when you do not weat a coat in the winter. Not wearing a coat does not cause cold viruses in your lungs. Not wearing a coat will cause your immune system to be weakened, making it easier for your body to be unable to fight off the virus. It is the same with ich. If you have some ich organisms in the water, stressing the fish makes them more suceptible. A very typical stressor is a sudden change in temperature, especially downward changes -- many people report outbreaks of ich after the tank gets suddenly cooler.

But, here is the thing, ich infestations can only occur if there is ich in the water in the first place. No ich, and no matter how much stress your fish go through, and they won't get ich.

Now, lets talk about how to get rid of ich. You have to become familier with ich's life cycles. The Skpetical Aquarist's page on ich, http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/ich.shtml, is one of the best on the web. The main highlight is that ich goes through many lifestages -- only 1 of which is vulnerable to medications. It takes several days for ich to go though one complete life cycle. So, you have to treat for the entire time. I normally recommend a good 4 to 6 days in additions AFTER all signs of infection stops. That is, an extra 4 to 6 days after all scratching stops and of course after all the spots are gone.

You have to medicate for that long, otherwise what has happened this time will happen again. You will miss a significant portion of the population of ich, and it will just come back again. If you medicate long enough, you will kill all the population, and this problem will end.

so was right about one thing, those medicines are fairly dangerous. Wear gloves and be sure to wash up thoroughly after use and if you spill any.

On your water changes was the temp a close match?

What is the tempature of your tank?

This is why quaratine tanks are a excellent idea. I will admit I only quaratine a small percentage of fish I buy.

The way for the chemical to kill the ich is when the parasite is in the free-swimming stage. During this time the ich is swimming to look for a host.

A word of caution about some meds.
- some meds are a LOT MORE toxic to scaleless fish such as catfish,plecos, and loaches then to other fish.
- plants do not react well to most meds
- Most meds are VERY toxic to inverts.
- some meds such as malachite green will stain clear aquarium silcone.
- copper based meds is very toxic to plants, certain fish and can affect benefical bacteria.
- If the biofilter is under "heavyload" monitoring of the water quality is vital to prevent ammonia and nitrite posioning while using some meds.
- Some meds should be used half strength on some fish.

Ich forms cysts on fish and feed on tissue. Then they break away from a host in a free swimming stage and fall to attach themselves to a solid surface. At this time they form cyst and start to multiply. When the cyst has multiplied they break open and hundreds of free swimming ich start to look for a host. They have about 48 hours or simply die. Once attach they start the cycle again.
***The complete cycle takes about 3 to 4 days at 70' and at 50' this period is extended to at least 5 weeks. A low temps they might lay dormant for some considerate time.

Usually a minor temp increase is recommended if the fish can tolerate it. This will help speed up the cycle time of the parasite.

Also look for a medication that treats for at least 7 days and is recommended to do a 25% water change before treatment. Also remove any carbon from filter(S) and try to reduce feedings incase the medication has any effects on the biological filter.

One medication I have used in the past is Maracide by MARDEL. It seems to be "safer" then other meds, but has the potential to stain clear silicone. Also reduce light during treatment and make sure no sunlight hits tank as the light can break down the medication.

Quarantine new fish for a month or so is one the best ways to avoid most parasites or other hitchhikers that can affect your tank.

*** information taken from Manaul of Fish Health.

http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/ich.shtml,

I have just posted the infomation from this very informative site.

Here is the thread

[link=http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/forums/General%20Freshwater/61539.html?200507080054
]http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/forums/General%20Freshwater/61539.html?200507080054
[/link]
Keith

Last edited by keithgh at 08-Jul-2005 01:06

Last edited by keithgh at 08-Jul-2005 02:05

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
VOTE NOW VOTE NOW

Thanks for all the useful information.

based on all of your helpful advise I have a strategy that I will put into place starting tonight.

Hoepfully I can finally get this thing nipped in the butt.

Here's what I did (note I have a 60 gallon aquarium mainly stocked with South American cichlids):

40% water change
Added 6 tbsp of aquarium salt
Added appropriate medication and will repeat daily.
Raised the temperature to 29°C
Turned the lights out and covered the aquarium with a blanket.
I have also limited the feeding of the fish.
Note that carbon has been removed from the filter.

After three days of this, I will do another 40% water change, add 2 tbsp of aquarium salt and repeat medication.

Does all of that sound OK?

One product for you is all you need.
Kent Marine RX-P. It is safe for sensitive and scaleless fish, for salt and freshwater and will kill ich and other external parasites.
It is highly effective.

Heres a link to product info for you:
[link=http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=KM3531&ast=&key=]http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=KM3531&ast=&key=" style="COLOR: #00FF00[/link]

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wow..3 day ich cure...what the heck...i dont follow those...what i did..i read abt the life cycle of ich...then i look for med (like rid-ich) that is gud for it... malachie green chloride and formalin combination is toxic to ich..as well as to the fish...so use it with caution. if u have tetras...use half dose. it was ideal to raise the temp to 84(to hasten the life cycle of ich) but..with new formulation...thats an optional...better be at same temp...to lessen the toxicity of the chems...though...require to treat longer period (say...7 days since last detectable ich)

sopawmono said:

"That really strong stuff. 3 day ick, WOW, if your fish are still living, you've got strong fish. Hope you didn't touch that water, as that stuff contains some of the worst cancer causeing agents know to man."


Ok, what? What product are you talking about that can give a human cancer if they touch the water? I'm not saying your wrong, I just want to know what we're talking about.

Sorry to kinda go off topic. But I am still talking about an ick med (I think).

-Beefshank

UPDATE:

After three days of following my various treatment strategies, things seem to be progressing well. No new visual victims and the Boesemani is nearly healed but the clown loach is still is bad shape.

Tomorrow I am going to do a 50% water change, add more salt into the new water and start the 3 day cycle again.

Thanks again for everybody's help.

What was the name of med you were using?


Using a strong med on sensitive fish may not immediate affects, but continue exposure to these strong meds over the life of the fish can have chronic health affects especially in fish that can have a life span of a decade or more.

I'm using a product called 'Quick Cure'. It was recommended by my LFS.

My Boesemani, visually, looks cured and my clown loach only has a few spots left.

Iam going to med for two more days, and if all seems good, do another water change and do another three days cycle to ensure I have caught it all.

Hopefully the long terms effects will be minimal but I'd hate to think of the alternative.

When you medicate for ich, the life cycle of the parasite can be as much as 10 days.
You need to medicate your fish for around 12-14 days for the treatment to successfully kill all the ich in your tank.
If you discontinue treatment after only 5 days, once the next batch of cysts hatch, your fish will come down with ich again.
Quick Cure is very very harmful to loaches, I hope you dont have any in your tank.
Remember not to breathe it, and dont accidently ingest even little bits. Quick Cure has ingredients in that actively cause cells to mutate, causing cancer.
My thought is, if it will cause cancer in humans, why are we using it on our fish??


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