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My 5 inch plus Texas who is breeding with the Salvini has a broken jaw. I am guilty of overstocking the tank.

In this 55 gallon I have:
1 convict
1 texas
4 salvinis
1 jewel
2 raphael cats
4 orange-finned blue loaches

I was planning to give away the jewel and salvinis was not decided about the texas. The 3 extra salvinis are in there to get the female to pick a mate from the same species, but she is totally smitten by the texas and I did not want to separate them forcefully. Ultimately, I am planning to keep 3 of the 7 cichlids and the cats and loaches.

One fine day, I came home from work I noticed that the Texas had a swollen jaw. He keeps locking mouths with the convict who is similar sized and is the boss of the tank, but I have not seen them fight to the extent that the convict can dislocate the Texas's jaw. I suspect, that the Texas somehow did this while digging gravel.

He does not seem to be in pain, and is eating, fighting and mating normally, but I am concerned and want to know if there is anything I can do to fix this.

I think you need to separate the two for a little while. The way I see it you have two options: a hospital tank, or a divider in the 55. As far as treatment goes, if the fish is still eating then I would not worry to much and would just let it heal on its own. I suppose you could add melafix to the water as a safe guard against infection and to speed healing along. Don't dose antibiotics until you notice an obvious infection.

side note:

I do not approve of breeding hybrids of any species. Though I think it unlikely you will see fry result from the breeding and find it even more unlikely that if fry are produced they will be fertile seeing as Salvini keeps getting tossed back and forth between Nandopsis and Cichlasoma.
Remember cross breeding is how we got abominations such as flower horns and blood parrots

Ranting:
Hybrids cheapen the hobby and people who purposely breed them should not be allowed to keep fish

I have a feeling that if you keep this set up and maintain it for awhile that the texas is going to end up catching some bodies. Convicts are tough buggers but when the Texas grows into his 10-12" capacity the convict is going to be in trouble. I believe the Texas' are top 5 list in agression. The tank is definetly overstocked, I think only two of your fish grow to less than 9", Overstocking works with africans but I've never heard of it being successful with the new world cichlids. I personally don't care to breed hybrids but if you do, just try and keep the fish to yourelf.

By all means marry; if you get a good wife, you'll be happy. If you get a bad one, you'll become a philosopher.
Socrates-
I happen to have become a philosopher

I would have to say the original intention of getting the extra salvinis was to get the female to mate with one of them, so I could give the Texas away. The convict was also vying for her attention and I did not want to separate the salvini and the texas and end up with her breeding with the convict, so I got the extra salvinis, but it now looks like, she wont look at anybody else until he is gone.

But on the other hand, the skin around the Texas's jaw has healed, but is still dislocated and now I dont know what to do. I know the tank is soon going to be small for him, and I dont have another set up or place for another set up in the house.

I dont mind giving him away, but I dont know anybody who would be willing to provide a home to a fish that has a bad jaw.

And until I separate him, the cross breeding is not going to stop.

HELP!!!

are you still having problems? I really have no advice other than just getting a biiger tank if you wnat to keep all the inhabitants. What was your original plan as far as fish for the 55. You originally said you wanted to keep 3 of the 7 cichlids. So where were you going to unload the other 4? It may be time to follow through or you willl probably have some really damged fish in your tank and possibly dead. Salvanis can get pretty rough too as you probably have already realized. Maybe your LFS can take whatever you dont want or maybe find a larger used tank for cheap & replace the 55.

By all means marry; if you get a good wife, you'll be happy. If you get a bad one, you'll become a philosopher.
Socrates-
I happen to have become a philosopher

Ok, so the situation just got worse. The Texas is now not able to eat anything at all and has lost weight, and the jaw is getting worse. His mouth is constantly open and he is not able to hold on to anything, the jaw obviously doesnt move at all.

Regarding the other cichlids, the plan is still on. I have found a friend who would be happy to take the jewel off my hands and 2 out of the 4 salvinis are going to go to homes of friends as well.

But my short term problem of fixing the Texas is not solved. What do I do? Do I let him starve to death, or is there a way to fix this?

The jaw muscles will have atrophied by now, and the jaw will be impossible to reset. He will be neither able to defend himself or swallow food properly. I think as his condition continues to fade, euthanasia is the only action left. He should not have to suffer starving to death and as his condition worsens he will become a magnet for disease.

Put him in a bucket of tankwater with about 20 drops of clove oil and he should pass out within minutes, then bash him on his head. Its not a nice thing to have to do, but he wont feel a thing , and its better than starving to death or being bullied to death in his final days by the other tank inhabitants.

Sorry I cant give more positive advice on this one.A broken jaw is a fatal injury for most fish.It depends on their ability to cope, and your fish is not coping.

I kinda thought that is what I would end up doing with him. You seem right about the diseases part, one of his eyes is turning cloudy and I have no idea why. I am just going to have to separate him.

Is it ok to euthanize a fish by freezing it though? I have done that in the past. Don't they just go to sleep that way as well?

Depends on how its done, too quickly and the fish will experience unpleasant shock, possibly even feel its cells begin to freeze and explode, and too slowly could be a lingering death.In the interest of pain avoidance id definately use clove oil prior to bashing, beheading or freezing.

If the fish is completely zonked out of its face the exact method of dispatching it matters a little less. Clove oil really works, and it couldnt be cheaper, and its available at the dental section of just about any pharmacist.

Ok, When I have to do it, I will use clove oil first. Right now, he is fighting with the other fish and holding out, not very well though. I hope he survives.

Hi,
"He's fighting with other fish and holding his own, I
hope he survives"....

If you were sick and possibly dying, and found yourself
in a bad section of town and set upon by ruffians, would
you not fight for survival too? It is an ailing fish
and the others know it. They will continue to pick on it
as the weakest. It is the way of the beast.

It's time Clowny, give the fish a break, put it down.
It is not going to get any better.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Ok, I know I am being selfish about this and not putting the fish down because it makes me feel awfully uncomfortable, but I want to be really sure before I do this. So at the cost of being annoying, here is a picture of the Texas. I know it's not a good shot, but the best I could get. Can you look at his jaw and tell me if he has even the slightest chance.

Regards,
Clowny

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d152/clownygirl/Texas%20Cichlid/Texaswithbrokenjaw.jpg

Have you tried isolating the fish and offering small live foods such as bloodworms and mosquito larvae?

If the fish isn't able to eat even those extremely small foods, then he will just continue to waste away and it would be best to euthanize him.

---

I'm not your neighbor, you Bakersfield trash.

Not the best pic, but it looks pretty bad. At this point it looks like a permanant injury. You could probably keep him going but will probably always have to feed him small foods and alone, which is fine. To me though, one of the best things about keeping these big cichlids are their beauty #1 and then their behavior, which in this case neither factor is no longer present. I would put him down but I can understand your difficulties. How long have you had this guy? It seems like your really struggling with this decision.

By all means marry; if you get a good wife, you'll be happy. If you get a bad one, you'll become a philosopher.
Socrates-
I happen to have become a philosopher

Tried separating him and feeding him, but I knew from the state of his jaw that he was not going to be able to eat. The jaw had completely collapsed, his gills were turning red with infection and also maybe because he was having difficulty breathing. I put some clove oil in the water and he passed out in less than 10 seconds and then put him in the freezer. I think he passed away peacefully or so it seemed.

He was a beautiful fish full of life and character. Ironically, his picture made it to # 17 on the photo contest at cichlid-forum.com the same week. This is what he looked like before he broke his jaw:

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/photocontest/displayphoto.php?pic=5594&mode=score

I hope he is in a good place now.

Regards,
Clowny