FishProfiles.com Message Forums

having read various articals i think this is "discus plague" but of the 3 remaining fish one seems fine and the other 2 are both showing signs of improvment, ie hiding less and colour slowly begining to return around the fins

Hole in the head can be very persistant, hopefully all will be well with the remaining discus, but take a tip from an old hand with discus and treat the fish again in about 2 months.Those nasty little protozoans have a real tendancy to live in small colonies in decorations and cause reinfection months later. Bloody annoying disease. Some people have to do a total strip down and clean to get rid of it.

Hembo,

If it was discus plague, your discus would be dead. It is much more likely that it was LLE brought about by your low tank temperature. Discus require warm water. Low water temperature is stressful and the discus will suffer over time, being especially receptive to intestinal parasites. The best temperature range for discus is 28°C-30°C. Bump your tank temperature to 29F.

HITH is often considered a nutritional disease. Poor diet brings on an episode of HITH. Use good flake and pellets to provide agood base diet for the fish. Supplement with live or frozen food as these fish are meat eaters. Frozen bloodworm (mosquito larva) is excellent. I use live blackworms (not tubifex) with red worms as my base feeding.

Last edited by bob wesolowski at 14-Oct-2005 11:26

__________
"To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research."
researched from Steven Wright

the 3 remaining discus are looking much better,
Bob, i feed a mix of good quality foods and bloodworm 2-3 times a week. tank temp is now at 28, posibly a little high for the cories but they should cope better than the discus.

UPDATE:
Discus are still showing increased activity and not so dark in colour, protozin treatment now finished with sucsessful results regarding the whitespot on cories and barbs.
latest course of action is another large water change and a dose of melafix/pimafix mix. if the discus deteriorate again i will try treating with octozin but fingers crossed and from current signs it wint come to that.

in our community tank (70g, see profile for stock) 3 of the 4 discus are hiding in the plants and showing a distinct lack of activity and loss of appetite, 2 of them are also showing slightly clasped fins and some white marks/abrasions (deffinately not white spot).
they were all happy untill a few days ago when the 1st one started to hide more than usuall, the only change in the tank since then is a 20% water change and a quite heavy plant trim.
any ideas of what the problem is or how to treat?
full water test results will be posted later tonight but as there are no symptoms in any other fish i dont forsee a water problem that i can test for.
as well as being unsure of the problem i also dont know how well discus take meds, and we are slightly restricted by having cories present.

any help appreciated.

thanks

water test results

ammonia - 0
nitrite - 0
nitrate - 15 (a bit high, will do another water change later)
ph 6.9
temp 27c
dont have any hardness test kits at the moment but usually around 12dh and 3kh

edit: worse fish looks like a milky paste on its side, will try amd post a pic if i can get one.

Last edited by hembo666 at 11-Oct-2005 12:13

Not to be pessimistic, but I just lost 14 discus in my 220 gallon tank from something very similar. I talked to a couple of people and was told to try to use velvet guard or copper safe. I didn't get to use them in time and all of my fish died. I had tried using melafix and that didn't work.

Re: chat conversation, like I said I would do some massive water changes, try to get some Prime and switch over to that for conditioning your water. It sounds like a stress reaction to me, they should *hopefully* be looking better in a few days with a bit of coddling. You'll probably want to feed them some bloodworm or something else they find delicious (high protein is good too) to convince them to eat and start feeling better. Garlic is an excellent appetite stimulant (also antiparasitic), fresh garlic juice can be mixed with their food to get them to take it. Just cut a clove of garlic and rub it on the food or crush the garlic and use the juice from it in their food. I've convinced a lot of very picky or sick fish to eat with garlic and bloodworm, it sounds like an old wives tale but it seems to work.

Keep us posted, daily large water changes wouldn't be a bad idea until they're feeling better. I don't think you'll need to medicate them but let us know if they get worse or haven't improved at all in a few days.

[/font]

hembo666,

Re: chat conversation Part II

Given that you provided the water parameters and the information from your post and our chat, I come to the following conclusion:

- The reason your situation is showing effect now is because you cut your plants. Previously, the plants have been able to keep your Nitrate levels lower and the fish didn’t show any symptoms. Now, with the cut, there is nothing left to suck up these Nitrates and your water change routine is either too little or too infrequent.

As others (Tryst) suggested as well, perform a larger (50%) water change right away, if you haven’t done so already.

For the long term, you might want to consider one or a combination of the following:

- Reduce your fish load (44 is quite a lot, even when they are juveniles. BTW, hope you have a plan for the time when they are growing up).
- Increase water change volume from 20 to at least 35%, if not all the way up to 50%.
- Increase water change frequency.

In addition, follow Tryst’s advice of the daily water changes until the situation is stable.

Hope this helps,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Ive also noticed symptoms as described here can be the start of protozoan based diseases like hole in the head syndrome. Some fish die before there is ever an actual visible hole. Watch closely for further symptoms.

UPDATE:
looks like one fish is losing the battle, others seem a little more active but still very dark and brown in colour (should be bright blue)all still have very clamped fins.
new symptoms include minor stringy poo and i have noticed a few spots on some cories that look like whitespot.

now treating with protozin and large daily water changes.

Before your update, I was about to launch into a run-down on Heaxmitiasis (the infamous Hole in the Head disease) that can strike Discus with particular virulence, though other Cichlid species (e.g., Oscars) can also be affected. However, if your Corys are starting to show signs of a white spot infection, this complicates matters.

At this point, I would separate the Discus and the Corys. Isolate the Corys in a hospital tank and treat for White Spot just to make sure, and begin treating the Discus with Metronidazole for Hexamitiasis.

Here is a web page devoted to Hexamitiasis. Remember that this parasite also affects the digestive tract and shows up in Discus faeces when the fish are infected. Medicate all food fed to the fishes with Metronidazole to ensure elimination of the gut parasites.

I suspect you've struck double unlucky and been hit by both Hexamitiasis AND White Spot. In the case of your Discus, though, treating the Hexamitiasis is your first priority if that is what it is. And already, enough alarm bells about the symptoms are ringing for me to obtain a confirmed diagnosis a pressing and urgent matter. Hexamitiasis can move very quickly indeed in Discus once it takes a hold, so act NOW and stand a very good chance of saving your Discus, because once a course of Metronidazole treatment takes effect, it's possible to knock out Hexamitiasis swiftly and effectively. However, early treatment is vital, before serious head lesions appear and secondary fungal infections strike at the lesions (ultimately resulting in death through penetration of fungal hyphae into the brain). With badly affected Discus, swabbing the lesions with an antifungal agent is also vital.


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

UPDATE

whitespot seems to be under control , lost the smallest discus but the other 3 seem a bit better again today.

Hi I have a betta that has the same symtoms (hiding in the plants and showing a distinct lack of activity and loss of appetite) exsept for the marks/abrasions. Has any one seen it in a betta befor?? I'm really worried about him please help me:#(this is the closest thing I have read that sounds like what hes got. If you know the name of what hes got can you tell me?